The Star: Maple Leafs, Raptors must lose more to win: Kelly

[MrLegend28*]

if you guys wanna lose and rebuild, go be fans of other teams. I think mods around here should start locking people out with such negative views, its unnecessary. Go complain somewhere else.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Normally I like Kelly, but this was just a terrible article.

If you're going to preach losing, at least tell me why.

 

[HarrisonFord]

I wouldn't be mad if we tanked if, and only if, both Kessel and Phaneuf don't re-sign

 

[Morbo]

Yeah, you really need those players picked in the top 10...so clearly the answer is to trade away phaneuf and kessel.

It amazes me that these so called journalists can hold down a job.

 

[The CyNick]

if you guys wanna lose and rebuild, go be fans of other teams. I think mods around here should start locking people out with such negative views, its unnecessary. Go complain somewhere else.

while we are at it, lets just have you tell everyone what they should think. easier that way.

 

[The CyNick]

Yeah, you really need those players picked in the top 10...so clearly the answer is to trade away phaneuf and kessel.

It amazes me that these so called journalists can hold down a job.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but if you don't think Kessel and Phanuef are good enough to be the top players on a stanley cup winning team, then you should trade them. because by next season they will be taking up about 15-16 million of our cap. that limits what you can do elsewhere to upgrade the team.

but if you do that, you need to build around gardiner and reilly basically, and them trade everyone else. because it doesn't make sense to have guys at lupul's age for example and wait for other guys to develop along with new draft picks.

the other outside chance is you make straight up hockey deals for phil and dion and are able to continue on the path were on. but thats pretty unlikely.

 

[Grandrift145]

the media is suffering from "Tank Flue"

the only cure is a deep playoff run and hopefully a Championship

untill then we see will many of these kind of articles

 

[CabanaBoy5]

What a silly article as it purtains to the Leafs. We have our top picks over several years in the form of Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Bernier, Kadri, Rielly...etc. We're not going to dump these guys to start over for another 5 yrs with no guarantee of being any better off. Mr Kelly...****!

 

[William Hylander]

We've already rebuilt considering we have all these first round picks stockpilled.

2006 #5 pick
2007 #2
2008 #16, #17
2009 #7
2011 #22, #25
2012 #5
2013 #21

Should we tank some more and take another 8 years to make the playoffs? This team has alot of potential still, one of the youngest in the NHL and we made the playoffs almost to the 2nd round, we added some experience to help us get into the playoffs again.

We aren't the NBA the NHL is not about superstars, there are no Lebron's here, Crosby and malkin have one a single championship in 7 years of playing with each other. You don't need to tank to win, look at LA kings and Boston.

 

[Burke the Legend]

The most painful part of this article is thinking about the fact that the fool who wrote it actually got paid to do so.

 

[ThreeHundred]

He's right about the Raptors. Not about the Leafs

 

[Commander Clueless]

Well, we spent years rebuilding and made our triumphant return to the playoffs to get knocked out in round 1.

We had our chance guys.

Time to rebuild again.

 

[91Kadri91*]

He's right about the Raptors. Not about the Leafs

This.

 

[Liminality]

"Cathal Kelly is a Toronto Star sports columnist with a focus on basketball, the NBA, Toronto Raptors, soccer, Toronto FC, the MLS and the international game."

He threw in the Leafs just to get higher views, not much else to say about the Star.

 

[TootooTrain]

"Cathal Kelly is a Toronto Star sports columnist with a focus on basketball, the NBA, Toronto Raptors, soccer, Toronto FC, the MLS and the international game."

He threw in the Leafs just to get higher views, not much else to say about the Star.

TSN Leafs lunch had him on their show and literally the only time he talked about the leafs himself was in the title of the article. The entire show was about the Raps and TFC. Guy just wanted views.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

I can honestly say that was one of the worst hockey-related articles I've read in a long time. In particular:

There is only one well-paved road toward winning in the NHL and the NBA — through the draft. Not one lucky draft. Not one diamond you stumbled on in the third round because nobody else bothered to scout Estonia. We’re talking about a core of elite talent drawn from the top five or 10 picks.

Chicago (2012-13):
Kane, 1st in 2007
Toews, 1st in 2006
Frolik, 10th in 2006

LA (2011-12):
Doughty, 2nd in 2008
Johnson, 3rd in 2005 (traded prior to the playoffs)

Boston (2010-11):
Horton, 3rd in 2003
Wheeler, 5th in 2004
Seguin, 2nd in 2010
Hamill, 9th in 2007 (did not play in playoffs)

Chicago (2009-10):
Kane, 1st in 2007
Toews, 1st in 2006
Ladd, 4th in 2004
Barker, 3rd in 2004 (did not play in playoffs)
Skille, 7th in 2005 (did not play in playoffs)

Pittsburgh (2008-09):
Malkin, 2nd in 2004
Crosby, 1st in 2005
Staal, 2nd in 2006
Whitney, 5th in 2002
Fleury, 1st in 2003
Guerin, 5th in 1989 (doesn't really belong on this list)
Sydor, 7th in 1990 (same)

Detroit (2007-08):
Stuart, 3rd in 1998

Toronto (2013-14):
Kessel, 5th in 2006
Kadri, 7th in 2009
van Riemsdyk, 2nd in 2007
Phaneuf, 9th in 2003
Lupul, 7th in 2002
Rielly, 5th in 2012 (possibly)

Man, I wished we had stocked up in as many top 10 picks as all of those other teams. Clearly that was the only "well-defined path" for all of those teams. I mean, only Pittsburgh had more then 3 in their line-up come playoffs, but it's really those other 5 previous winners who were the aberrations.

I'm sure fans of Florida, post-lockout-Tampa, Washington, Columbus, the Islanders, Colorado, Edmonton, and Atlanta/Winnipeg will attest to how those top 10 picks really guarantee that the rings will come flooding in (granted a couple of those teams, like Edmonton and Colorado, do have a good shot at becoming big players down the road).

/Rant

 

[Warden of the North]

Doesnt the Heat winning multiple Championships on the back of Lebron tear down his arguement? How does Cleveland feel about drafting a superstar and not winning with him?

Im not going to even touch the NHL parts

 

[Stephen]

Makes more sense for the Raptors, but it's not appropriate for the Leafs. I mean, we do have the 5th, 11th, 2nd, 16th, 17th, 7th, picks from the 2006-2009 drafts and the 5th overall pick from 2012...

 

[Radiohead]

Doesnt the Heat winning multiple Championships on the back of Lebron tear down his arguement? How does Cleveland feel about drafting a superstar and not winning with him?

Cleveland drafted a superstar but failed to surround him with good complementary players. They went 16-66 the year he left. Since then, they've tanked and gotten several high picks to build around including Kyrie Irving and now find themselves in a great position going forward.

The Heat won because they play in Miami. Toronto will never be able to do what they did because the city isn't nearly as desirable to free agents.

 

[Warden of the North]

Cleveland drafted a superstar but failed to surround him with good complementary players. They went 16-66 the year he left. Since then, they've tanked and gotten several high picks to build around including Kyrie Irving and now find themselves in a great position going forward.

The Heat won because they play in Miami. Toronto will never be able to do what they did because the city isn't nearly as desirable to free agents.

The point is Miami didnt need to draft to win a championship. They basically are taking the same path the Leafs are taking.

 

[Radiohead]

The point is Miami didnt need to draft to win a championship.

Do you honestly think Toronto will able to do what the Heat have done? Top tier players will never request a trade to play in Canada. Top tier players will never sign in Canada. The Raptors' best hope lies in the draft.

Btw, Miami drafted Wade who is undoubtedly a hall of famer.

They basically are taking the same path the Leafs are taking.

The difference is that hockey players do find Toronto to be a desirable location. Maybe it's a cultural thing when it comes to basketball players. It's unfortunate, but sadly, it's the truth.

 

[The Apologist]

while we are at it, lets just have you tell everyone what they should think. easier that way.

Agreed! Lets do that!

 

[Drew311]

Proposing the Leafs tank after signing a 29 year old free agent to a lucrative long term contract.

Genius.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

List of Leafs First Round picks in the System: We have 13 in total with six of them being top 10 picks.

Traded for:

Joffery Lupul (7th overall 02)

Dion Phaneuf (9th overall 03)

Phil Kessel (5th overall 06)

Jonathan Bernier (11th overall 06)

Jamas van Reimesdyk (2nd overall 07)

Joe Colborne (16th overall 08)

Jake Gardiner (17th overall 08)

Carter Ashton (29th overall 09)

Drafted:

Nazem Kadri (7th overall 09)

Tyler Biggs (22nd overall 11)

Stuart Percy (25th overall 11)

Morgan Reilly (5th overall 12)

Frederik Gauthier (21st Overall 13)

Every year each and every team gets to make a first round pick. Every year. Every team.

The majority of players in the league on EVERY team are first round picks.
Saying that the leafs have a lot of 1st round picks is like saying the leafs have a lot of hockey players.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Basketball and hockey are totally different sports. To contend in the NBA, you need an elite ball distributor in the point guard or point forward position. On the other hand, you could even have a Stamkos - St Louis / Vinny tandem and still not contend.

I can't see the Oilers going that far either despite being stacked. Sooner or later, they're going to find it extremely difficult to retain all their high level youngsters as well. Seeing that parity has gone up the roof, I don't tanking in the NHL is going to be as effective as before. Raptors - being an utterly hopeless team - needs to tank and probably get some elite coaching as well.