Sportsnet: Maple Leafs must add proven defenders, move on from all-offence identity

[Dekes For Days]

Have you even looked at the methodology of how they developed the tool?

Yes, which is why I know that the way you're describing these supposed "issues" is wrong. The stat provides valuable, accurate information, and ignoring it just provides a less clear picture about what's going on. It's important to understand what the stat is actually telling you, and to remember that goaltending exists, when trying to compare to actual goals against.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

...Because of goaltending...

So cute how you'll throw a book of stats at everyone for all of your arguments but when you're confronted with the fact that the goalie who beat us got figured out easily by Tampa the very next round you then move on to some flaky argument like his hotstreak arbitrarily "running out".

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Yes, which is why I know that the way you're describing these supposed "issues" is wrong. The stat provides valuable, accurate information, and ignoring it just provides a less clear picture about what's going on. It's important to understand what the stat is actually telling you, and to remember that goaltending exists, when trying to compare to actual goals against.

I don't believe you have since you don't appear to understand how the models were built and the factors contributing to them.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's the main reason.

Not in the CLB series it wasn't.

...Because of goaltending...

Goaltending had nothing to do with Tavares missing the empty net (just one example).

Bigger sample sizes are better, but that doesn't mean expected goals are useless information over smaller sample sizes. It's still a good measure of how the skaters in front performed.

The numbers for the CLB series are pretty useless. You either didn't watch the games, or you just don't want to admit that our forward group played well below expectations.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Make an offer for Oliver Ekman-Larsson. OEL and Tocchet hate one another.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Maybe xGA would be a better metric if wasn’t so inaccurate all the time.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The problem is that Barrie racked up a lot of 2nd powerplay assists in getting those point totals

Barrie has the 4th lowest secondary assist percentage of the top 15 defenseman in points over the last 6 years.

 

[Seras]

Omg should have kept Kadri and Gardner people are the same people who cried to trade them for years, we get it you want everything both ways and for decisions to be made after you see how it plays out, so would we all.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So cute how you'll throw a book of stats at everyone for all of your arguments but when you're confronted with the fact that the goalie who beat us got figured out easily by Tampa the very next round you then move on to some flaky argument like his hotstreak arbitrarily "running out".

He didn't get "figured out" by Tampa easily. Korpisalo remained incredibly hot through especially the first portion of that series, which lasted longer than our entire series. Columbus has the best team save percentage in these playoffs.

you don't appear to understand how the models were built and the factors contributing to them.

Likewise.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

He didn't get "figured out" by Tampa easily. Korpisalo remained incredibly hot through especially the first portion of that series, which lasted longer than our entire series. Columbus has the best team save percentage in these playoffs.

Likewise.

Complete lie. Nice try though.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not in the CLB series it wasn't.

Yes, goaltending was the biggest factor in the Columbus series.

Goaltending had nothing to do with Tavares missing the empty net (just one example).

Yeah, and? That's one event in an entire series. All teams have chances that they miss.

The numbers for the CLB series are pretty useless.

No, they're pretty useful.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why do the leafs have 11 million dollar forwards if "It's not their fault the other goalie played well" is an adequate excuse?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Complete lie. Nice try though.

Columbus goaltending against Toronto (330 minutes): 0.952
Columbus goaltending through the first 330 minutes of Tampa series: 0.951

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, goaltending was the biggest factor in the Columbus series.

That's only your opinion which is hard to take seriously knowing how biased you are.

Yeah, and? That's one event in an entire series. All teams have chances that they miss.

And ... like I said earlier, it's just one example of many.

No, they're pretty useful.

That's only your opinion which is hard to take seriously knowing how biased you are.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's only your opinion

No, it's pretty obvious.

And ... like I said earlier, it's just one example of many.

Yet you keep going back to the same one, and are only focused on when it happened to Toronto.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why do the leafs have 11 million dollar forwards if "It's not their fault the other goalie played well" is an adequate excuse?

Any player/team can be shut down by a hot goalie over a small sample. We just saw it happen to Crosby, the best player of our generation.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why do the leafs have 11 million dollar forwards if "It's not their fault the other goalie played well" is an adequate excuse?

Excellent point. Dekes keeps saying they're goalies outplayed Andersen and thus, blames the guy with the .936 SV% for the loss.

The truth, the goalies aren't playing against each other. If anything, the goalies are playing against the guys shooting for the other team and in this series, our zillion dollar offence was thoroughly outplayed by the opposing goalies. Andersen played much better than our forwards, that's the bottom line, that's why we lost the series and that's why people are questioning whether spending all that money on 4 forwards is wise.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes, goaltending was the biggest factor in the Columbus series.

I wonder if Dubas agrees with you and presented these findings to the board.

"Listen... I created my vision and signed those massive contracts... but I forgot to account for one major thing. I... uh... simply forgot that sometimes nhl teams have competent goaltending. I just never thought of it. It's our Achilles heal. I thought Matthews would just always skate up and score. But there's these guys wearing big padding that stand in the way. It's obnoxious. Now, if we can lobby the nhl and find a way to outlaw goaltending, then my vision is right back on track."

It's laughable.

There are massive problems with the vision. We've seen it first hand since December 2018.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Excellent point. Dekes keeps saying they're goalies outplayed Andersen and thus, blames the guy with the .936 SV% for the loss.

The truth, the goalies aren't playing against each other. If anything, the goalies are playing against the guys shooting for the other team and in this series, our zillion dollar offence was thoroughly outplayed by the opposing goalies. Andersen played much better than our forwards, that's the bottom line, that's why we lost the series and that's why people are questioning whether spending all that money on 4 forwards is wise.

If the leafs were losing 8-6 every game, he'd maybe have a point. The leafs were shut-out 2 games for heavens sake. Why did they spend so much money on these forwards if competent goaltending is all it takes to stop them?

 

[Gary Nylund]

No, it's pretty obvious.

Yet you keep going back to the same one, and are only focused on when it happened to Toronto.

The only thing obvious here is your bias.

Any player/team can be shut down by a hot goalie over a small sample. We just saw it happen to Crosby, the best player of our generation.

And any team can bungle their scoring chances over a small sample, we just saw it happen to the Leafs.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Columbus goaltending against Toronto (330 minutes): 0.952
Columbus goaltending through the first 330 minutes of Tampa series: 0.951

Cool, more meaningless drivel. A 5OT game where the players were clearly exhausted all to hell accounted for how many of those minutes?
This argument's already been done and I already referenced the stats that destroyed this silly argument. Not even going to bother to dig them up again.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Andersen played much better than our forwards, that's the bottom line, that's why we lost the series and that's why people are questioning whether spending all that money on 4 forwards is wise.

The Leafs generated offense and prevented offense better than Columbus. The difference in the series was goaltending. Whether you want to say Andersen did well or not, the fact remains that Andersen was the 3rd best goalie in that series, and you can't win with that.

It's funny how everybody keeps talking about how Columbus sucks at offense, so our defense playing well isn't worth anything, yet they point to Andersen's save percentage against the same bad offense as some sort of heroic effort.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Why do the leafs have 11 million dollar forwards if "It's not their fault the other goalie played well" is an adequate excuse?

Only counts if it's the Leafs. If the goalie gets figured out the next round, the new excuse is his hotstreak ran out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Listen... I created my vision and signed those massive contracts... but I forgot to account for one major thing. I... uh... simply forgot that sometimes nhl teams have competent goaltending.

A 0.952 SV% while your team is being outplayed is quite a bit more than "competent goaltending".

 

[Throw More Waffles]

A 0.952 SV% while your team is being outplayed is quite a bit more than "competent goaltending".

I blame our "elite" star players for not finishing their chances.

You've created some weird narrative that when the leafs get goods results, it's because they played well. And when the leafs get bad results, it's due to "external" factors.