GDT: Maple Leafs at Flames Oct. 30 on TSN

[Johnny Hoxville]

But benching is a tool for altering a player's attitude, and so I'm not sure what a benching is going to do for Backlund. Does it suddenly give him the tools to be an offensive force? Does it put him in a better situation to succeed? Not really.

I'm not so sure, I feel confident it also has the effect to make a player be more assertive offensively if that's why he's being kept out. Again, let's see how he responds, if Backlund wants to be a regular the message has now been delivered about what he needs to bring.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I'm not so sure, I feel confident it also has the effect to make a player be more assertive offensively if that's why he's being kept out. Again, let's see how he responds, if Backlund wants to be a regular the message has now been delivered about what he needs to bring.

If offensive production is what Hartley wants out of Backlund then he needs to start putting him in the situations where he has a legitimate chance of reaching those expectations. Mikael Backlund has by far the most defensive zone starts out of any forward on this team, and compared to the other center's it is not even remotely close.

Offensive Zone Starts
Joe Colborne - 65%
Sean Monahan - 58.5%
Matt Stajan - 53.8%
-
-
-
Mikael Backlund - 41%

As you can see here one player is being relied upon to do the heavy lifting in the defensive zone. You could make the argument that Mikael Backlund is the reason that Colborne and Monahan have looked so confident out there, and he is for sure the reason they have been given the easier assignments.

You can't have it both ways..and Hartley needs to realize that. Hopefully with a healthy Stajan in the lineup on a consistent basis it will allow for Backlund to take on more of an offensive role instead of being relied upon so heavily in a pure defensive capacity.

Basically what I am saying is that Hartley is either asking far to much out of Backlund given his current role on this team, or...that role needs to be changed completely.

 

[Lunatik]

I can cherry pick numbers too.

Backlund is #2 for centermen in PP time per game. Ahead of Colborne and Stajan.

bottom line is this:

People need to accept that Backlund lost his spot because he was being outplayed. Now its up to him to win it back.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I can cherry pick numbers too.

Backlund is #2 for centermen in PP time per game. Ahead of Colborne and Stajan.

bottom line is this:

People need to accept that Backlund lost his spot because he was being outplayed. Now its up to him to win it back.

Yes, and half of his PP time this season (7:44) came during the first three games of the year. Oddly enough he had points in all three of those games as well. Funny how that works, huh? In addition to that he has also outproduced Joe Colborne to this point in the year as well.

And showing that Backlund is clearly the player being relied upon to carry the bulk of the defensive zone work on this team is hardly cherry picking a stat in regards to an argument about his offensive opportunities.

Backlund was not deserving of being a healthy scratch in my opinion, and by doing so it made us a worse team. That's my issue.

 

[Lunatik]

Yes, and half of his PP time this season (7:44) came during the first three games of the year. Oddly enough he had points in all three of those games as well. Funny how that works, huh? In addition to that he has also outproduced Joe Colborne to this point in the year as well.

And showing that Backlund is clearly the player being relied upon to carry the bulk of the defensive zone work on this team is hardly cherry picking a stat in regards to an argument about his offensive opportunities.

Backlund was not deserving of being a healthy scratch in my opinion, and by doing so it made us a worse team. That's my issue.

Have you not watched the games?

I don't give a **** if Backlund has 1 more measly assist than Colborne. That is not the point. No one is arguing the total points.

Over the past few games Colborne has been playing better. That is all that matters, what a player did 7, 8 or 9 games ago is moot. Backlund has quite simply been the worst of our 4 usual centermen in the last couple games he has played. He is being passed over because the others have been doing better. Backlund has done nothing to earn that time recent and thus lost it. He needs to show everyone he is not the odd man out.

Backlund sitting out one game is not the travesty so many are making it out to be. It can be a good thing and a teaching tool. If he was bring sat consistently then maybe people have a reason to complain the way that they have.

I should have seen this coming though, the team is sitting at .500 after a dozen games and since we probably have 2-3 wins more than everyone expected and are putting forth a better effort than they have in years people need something else to whine and cry about.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Have you not watched the games?

I don't give a **** if Backlund has 1 more measly assist than Colborne. That is not the point. No one is arguing the total points.

Over the past few games Colborne has been playing better. That is all that matters, what a player did 7, 8 or 9 games ago is moot. Backlund has quite simply been the worst of our 4 usual centermen in the last couple games he has played. He is being passed over because the others have been doing better. Backlund has done nothing to earn that time recent and thus lost it. He needs to show everyone he is not the odd man out.

Backlund sitting out one game is not the travesty so many are making it out to be. It can be a good thing and a teaching tool. If he was bring sat consistently then maybe people have a reason to complain the way that they have.

I should have seen this coming though, the team is sitting at .500 after a dozen games and since we probably have 2-3 wins more than everyone expected and are putting forth a better effort than they have in years people need something else to whine and cry about.

Yes.. I have watched the games (thanks for asking..) and I disagree with your and assessment of his play. So be it..

There is a difference between whining/complaining and having a differing opinion on a certain matter/decision/player/coach etc... I am well within my rights as a fan of this team to question and sometimes disagree with the decisions that are being made on a day to day basis.

Just because the team is exceeding the expectations of many does not suggest that they should be free of any and all criticism's. I am far from a pessimist but I don't (and shouldn't) agree with every roster move that is made, and I am not afraid to voice that opinion when such a thing does happen.

 

[Lunatik]

Oh you've made your point, over and over again. Using 1000 words in what could be summed up in just two.

Backlund fanboy.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

Bopom.

Shots fired.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Oh you've made your point, over and over again. Using 1000 words in what could be summed up in just two.

Backlund fanboy.

And you're a Hartley fanboy. Seriously, what is gained by posts like this? If you don't want to debate an opposite opinion, then don't reply to those posts.

Highlife man has made some very valid points and I find it extremely conspicuous that everyone with something negative to say about Backlund waited until AFTER he was benched to let their opinions be known. If he was playing so poorly I find it odd no one had anything to say about it prior to then.

 

[Anglesmith]

And you're a Hartley fanboy. Seriously, what is gained by posts like this? If you don't want to debate an opposite opinion, then don't reply to those posts.

Highlife man has made some very valid points and I find it extremely conspicuous that everyone with something negative to say about Backlund waited until AFTER he was benched to let their opinions be known. If he was playing so poorly I find it odd no one had anything to say about it prior to then.

Actually, I do remember MarkGio sounding off about Backlund prior to the scratch, so 'credit' to him. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree with him now. But thank you for this post.

AH, the problem is that your post back here:

Over the past few games Colborne has been playing better. That is all that matters, what a player did 7, 8 or 9 games ago is moot. Backlund has quite simply been the worst of our 4 usual centermen in the last couple games he has played. He is being passed over because the others have been doing better. Backlund has done nothing to earn that time recent and thus lost it. He needs to show everyone he is not the odd man out.

... is basically just a long-winded "you're wrong, I'm right." Whether Colborne has been playing better or not is a subjective matter. He's certainly been playing more, and being more noticeable as a direct result of that, but whether that's just another game being played by Hartley is up for debate. Is Colborne being held to the same standard as players like Backlund and Baertschi? I would say hell no.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

I'm OK with Backlund being pushed down. In fact I think it is a good sign. As the Flames build a better team, all these fringe players like Backlund and Butler will no longer have a spot. And that is a good thing.

Monahan
Cammalleri
Stajan
Colborne
Backlund

Still not that great, but getting better.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If offensive production is what Hartley wants out of Backlund then he needs to start putting him in the situations where he has a legitimate chance of reaching those expectations. Mikael Backlund has by far the most defensive zone starts out of any forward on this team, and compared to the other center's it is not even remotely close.

Offensive Zone Starts
Joe Colborne - 65%
Sean Monahan - 58.5%
Matt Stajan - 53.8%
-
-
-
Mikael Backlund - 41%

As you can see here one player is being relied upon to do the heavy lifting in the defensive zone. You could make the argument that Mikael Backlund is the reason that Colborne and Monahan have looked so confident out there, and he is for sure the reason they have been given the easier assignments.

You can't have it both ways..and Hartley needs to realize that. Hopefully with a healthy Stajan in the lineup on a consistent basis it will allow for Backlund to take on more of an offensive role instead of being relied upon so heavily in a pure defensive capacity.

Basically what I am saying is that Hartley is either asking far to much out of Backlund given his current role on this team, or...that role needs to be changed completely.

Those are interesting stats no question, but I will say if Backlund wants to be a regular top 6 player he needs to continue to be solid in his own end AND contribute down on the other end regardless. Top players do both, and Backlund has done it at times, but consistency has always been his problem. Again, I think the message from the coach is clear, bring it every game if you want to play. And I really think Hartley is punishing Backlund so much because he knows he has it in him. This is a tactic that coaches have used since before I was born, and they will continue to use it for a long time. Hartley is challenging Backlund so much because he knows he can be one of our top players and he's at the stage now where he should be playing that way. So yes, the expectations on him are very high considering everything.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Those are interesting stats no question, but I will say if Backlund wants to be a regular top 6 player he needs to continue to be solid in his own end AND contribute down on the other end regardless. Top players do both, and Backlund has done it at times, but consistency has always been his problem. Again, I think the message from the coach is clear, bring it every game if you want to play. And I really think Hartley is punishing Backlund so much because he knows he has it in him. This is a tactic that coaches have used since before I was born, and they will continue to use it for a long time. Hartley is challenging Backlund so much because he knows he can be one of our top players and he's at the stage now where he should be playing that way. So yes, the expectations on him are very high considering everything.

Yes. So could we all stop pretending its because Colborne has been "fantastic".

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

Actually, I do remember MarkGio sounding off about Backlund prior to the scratch, so 'credit' to him. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree with him now. But thank you for this post.

AH, the problem is that your post back here:



... is basically just a long-winded "you're wrong, I'm right." Whether Colborne has been playing better or not is a subjective matter. He's certainly been playing more, and being more noticeable as a direct result of that, but whether that's just another game being played by Hartley is up for debate. Is Colborne being held to the same standard as players like Backlund and Baertschi? I would say hell no.

One, such as myself, might suggest, that that is because he is not capable of as much, and the coaching staff understands and realizes that they (Backlund and Baertschi) are playing below their potential whereas Colborne is playing up to his, or at least the way he needs to to reach his potential.

While I whole-heartedly disagree with the way Baertschi has been handled, I can see how they see him as not being the player they want him to be, whether that is because what they want him to be, is not the player he is capable of being is up for debate.

 

[Guido Sarducci]

Yes. So could we all stop pretending its because Colborne has been "fantastic".

Well then how about we stop pretending what Backlund is.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yes. So could we all stop pretending its because Colborne has been "fantastic".

Pretty much was going to say what FlamesFinnishStarter said, when Colborne was acquired, Burke basically said he's a bottom 6 player, that was the expectation for him when he was brought in. I think Backlund has a higher ceiling, so he's being pushed harder for that reason. Colborne has been playing above expectations while Backlund has been playing below, at least that's how I see it.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Well then how about we stop pretending what Backlund is.

You wanna try that sentence again?

 

[InfinityIggy]

Pretty much was going to say what FlamesFinnishStarter said, when Colborne was acquired, Burke basically said he's a bottom 6 player, that was the expectation for him when he was brought in. I think Backlund has a higher ceiling, so he's being pushed harder for that reason. Colborne has been playing above expectations while Backlund has been playing below, at least that's how I see it.

And I don't think you are wrong in your assessment, but Backlund wasn't benched for the sake of Colborne, he was benched for the sake of trying to get Backlund into gear, just like you say.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

You wanna try that sentence again?

Sentence seems fine to me.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

And I don't think you are wrong in your assessment, but Backlund wasn't benched for the sake of Colborne, he was benched for the sake of trying to get Backlund into gear, just like you say.

Nope. It was simply Colborne's play afforded Hartley the freedom to bench Backlund without hurting the team TOO much. I think the big arguments here are, "How much did it hurt the team?" and "Did Backlund deserve it?" and "Will it help Backlund?"

Well, we will find out won't we.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Nope. It was simply Colborne's play afforded Hartley the freedom to bench Backlund without hurting the team TOO much. I think the big arguments here are, "How much did it hurt the team?" and "Did Backlund deserve it?" and "Will it help Backlund?"

Well, we will find out won't we.

We lost the last game, so thats entirely up for debate.

We will find out though

 

[Anglesmith]

Sentence seems fine to me.

Grammatically correct, I guess, but means absolutely nothing in English.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

And I don't think you are wrong in your assessment, but Backlund wasn't benched for the sake of Colborne, he was benched for the sake of trying to get Backlund into gear, just like you say.

I agree with this post.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

According to Hartley, Backlund was benched for two reasons - needed Jackman's physicality in the lineup (all three minutes, I guess?) and wants to see more out of Backlund.

Hartley said Jackman’s inclusion was about responding to the truculent nature of the visiting Leafs, but also indication he wants to see more from Backlund, who has just two goals in 11 games this season.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=689431&cmpid=rss-vickers

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

According to Hartley, Backlund was benched for two reasons - needed Jackman's physicality in the lineup (all three minutes, I guess?) and wants to see more out of Backlund.


http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=689431&cmpid=rss-vickers

Hopefully Backlund responds accordingly, and this verifies that Hartley sees him with the potential be one of our top players. Hopefully the tactic works, I think it will.