Mantha vs. Sam Reinhart

[WingsMJN2965]

Who's the better player overall?

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[The Moose is Loose]

Definitely Mantha

 

[Dominance]

Reinhart is a great player but Mantha’s offensive ceiling - not even speaking long-term, just on any given night - is among the best in the NHL. If he played with a Barzal, Eichel, Pettersson, etc. I think 50 goals would be more likely than not.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It is crazy Mantha is already 26. At one point do people stop thinking about potential and ceiling? Guy can’t stay healthy and has never broken 50 points.

Reinhart is younger, scores more, same ppg, better defensively, and healthier. But he plays with eichel so he gets a -20

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

the best polls are ones where someone is clearly in an argument and is fishing to have people agree with them

 

[WingsMJN2965]

It is crazy Mantha is already 26. At one point do people stop thinking about potential and ceiling? Guy can’t stay healthy and has never broken 50 points.

Reinhart is younger, scores more, same ppg, better defensively, and healthier. But he plays with eichel so he gets a -20

You realize Reinhart is only a year younger, right? So I guess Reinhart has way more room to grow than Mantha, somehow?

You already got wrecked on the scoring pace, the only thing that puts Reinhart ahead in total scoring is Mantha's injuries. You've also provided zero evidence that Reinhart is better defensively in this thread or the other, but continue saying it.

the best polls are ones where someone is clearly in an argument and is fishing to have people agree with them

Turns out I didn't have to look too hard. Shooting fish in a barrel... With a cannon.

 

[Pyrophorus]

You've also provided zero evidence that Reinhart is better defensively in this thread or the other, but continue saying it.

9/10 this is just something people say.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

9/10 this is just something people say.

Oh yeah, I'm clear for sure. He just said it several times in the other thread with no evidence when challenged.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You realize Reinhart is only a year younger, right? So I guess Reinhart has way more room to grow than Mantha, somehow?

You already got wrecked on the scoring pace, the only thing that puts Reinhart ahead in total scoring is Mantha's injuries. You've also provided zero evidence that Reinhart is better defensively in this thread or the other, but continue saying it.



Turns out I didn't have to look too hard. Shooting fish in a barrel... With a cannon.

Nope reinhart is exactly where he will be, I don’t think he’ll be anything more than what he is. A good 50-60 point two-way winger.

we will see if mantha’s production ever gets close to the legend of mantha.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Nope reinhart is exactly where he will be, I don’t think he’ll be anything more than what he is. A good 50-60 point two-way winger.

we will see if mantha’s production ever gets close to the legend of mantha.

Cool. Now support your conclusion that Reinhart is better defensively.

 

[NotLeddy]

Cool. Now support your conclusion that Reinhart is better defensively.

He probably was very confident in his statement, but then looked and saw that the majority of analytics/heatmaps/metrics favor Mantha defensively, and now he's disappeared

Not to say Reinhart is bad defensively, per se, but Mantha is definitely has the bigger defensive impact, and when you watch him, you can see why- his stick. He's very good at breaking up passing lanes and plays when they happen, and doesn't get many shot attempts against when he's on the ice.

 

[Lambo]

I vote the car(Mantha, Manta).

 

[Sweetpotato]

Reinharts the better player overall, but if i had a McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, etc center i'd want Mantha beside them for his scoring potential.

 

[SuperScript29]

Reinharts the better player overall, but if i had a McDavid, Draisaitl, Eichel, Matthews, etc center i'd want Mantha beside them for his scoring potential.

I don't think Rienhart is better, but you do bring up a good point. The idea here is neither player is one to build on, they're complimentary top-6 forwards. One being a winger and the other more of a center/wing, I think if you had a superstar center, Mantha is a much more appealing option of the two and would be overall across the league. On the other hand if you had weak centers but a superstar like Ovie on the wing, I doubt Reinhart would be a hot commodity.

 

[Sweetpotato]

I don't think Rienhart is better, but you do bring up a good point. The idea here is neither player is one to build on, they're complimentary top-6 forwards. One being a winger and the other more of a center/wing, I think if you had a superstar center, Mantha is a much more appealing option of the two and would be overall across the league. On the other hand if you had weak centers but a superstar like Ovie on the wing, I doubt Reinhart would be a hot commodity.

If you have a one dimensional center or star winger and you want to help insulate them then a Reinhart, Lindholm, Silfverberg, Landeskog, etc complete player would be more suited than Mantha to do that while also complimenting talent. Think of it this was. If you have a star center, you'd want both players to flank that center to create a solid line, Mantha being a cheap(comparatively) big finisher and Reinhart being a 200ft complete player, I don't necessarily value one more than the other as I think theyre very close but Reinhart is the "better" player in this situation.

 

[biturbo19]

Mantha has the edge in...pretty much every meaningful category for me. He can actually skate, he's bigger, he's a better goal-scorer, and more than anything...despite all the concerns about Mantha as a prospect, he's not as soft and lazy defensively as Reinhart either.

 

[biturbo19]

If you have a one dimensional center or star winger and you want to help insulate them then a Reinhart, Lindholm, Silfverberg, Landeskog, etc complete player would be more suited than Mantha to do that while also complimenting talent. Think of it this was. If you have a star center, you'd want both players to flank that center to create a solid line, Mantha being a cheap(comparatively) big finisher and Reinhart being a 200ft complete player, I don't necessarily value one more than the other as I think theyre very close but Reinhart is the "better" player in this situation.

Other than the pre-draft "profile" of what Reinhart was supposed to be, where is the idea that he's this solid 200ft two-way player in the realm of guys like Lindholm and Landeskog even coming from? I haven't seen that from him. He hasn't really been that player in the real world.

They are both just sorta different flavours of complementary Top-6 Winger...but i haven't seen enough of this "two way acumen" out of Reinhart to actually even think about making that the tipping point. Neither is a particularly good defensive player. The slightly better passer/playmaker? Maybe. But as a complementary winger...i don't think that comes close to outweighing the significant advantages to Mantha elsewhere.

 

[pigpen65]

Reinhart is completely dependent on Eichel to produce, and considering how dominant Eichel is that production even with Eichel is still disappointing.

 

[Regal]

Other than the pre-draft "profile" of what Reinhart was supposed to be, where is the idea that he's this solid 200ft two-way player in the realm of guys like Lindholm and Landeskog even coming from? I haven't seen that from him. He hasn't really been that player in the real world.

They are both just sorta different flavours of complementary Top-6 Winger...but i haven't seen enough of this "two way acumen" out of Reinhart to actually even think about making that the tipping point. Neither is a particularly good defensive player. The slightly better passer/playmaker? Maybe. But as a complementary winger...i don't think that comes close to outweighing the significant advantages to Mantha elsewhere.

Reinhart's relative and regression metrics show him generally having a pretty good influence on CA and xGA.

 

[newfy]

Nope reinhart is exactly where he will be, I don’t think he’ll be anything more than what he is. A good 50-60 point two-way winger.

we will see if mantha’s production ever gets close to the legend of mantha.

I mean Mantha has trouble staying healthy but when hes on the ice hes obviously better than Reinhart. He was producing at a 30+ goal, 70+ point pace last year on the worst team in the last 20 years. He was producing over a 30 goal pace the season before that without much help from dmen being able to get him the puck or any depth on the team whatsoever.

Play him on Eichels wing, throw Dahlin on the PP with him and hes blowing Reinharts numbers out of the water

 

[Tetsuo]

Mantha AINEC. Reinhart's production isn't anything to write home about given who he's playing with. Also Mantha is clearly superior defensively. He'd be the perfect player next to Eichel or McDavid, his production would probably eclipse Rantanen if he was healthy for a full season on the Wing for a guy on their tier (franchise centermen).

 

[Dirty Dog]

Another year of reinhart out producing mantha. Scored way more goals too. And did it without eichel.

Maybe next year is the year Mantha finally produces like the legend of Mantha at 27. He will be playing with great linemates. Reinhart likely will be centering his own line without eichel, and my guess is he still out produces Mantha. Based on the precedent that he always has, and we’ll see how the “linemates argument” played out. Because reinhart is currently out producing Mantha with worst linemates

 

[wetcoast]

Reinhart is a great player but Mantha’s offensive ceiling - not even speaking long-term, just on any given night - is among the best in the NHL. If he played with a Barzal, Eichel, Pettersson, etc. I think 50 goals would be more likely than not.

I used to think this as well but Mantha might end up being another guy who looks way better at times than he actually was.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You realize Reinhart is only a year younger, right? So I guess Reinhart has way more room to grow than Mantha, somehow?

You already got wrecked on the scoring pace, the only thing that puts Reinhart ahead in total scoring is Mantha's injuries. You've also provided zero evidence that Reinhart is better defensively in this thread or the other, but continue saying it.



Turns out I didn't have to look too hard. Shooting fish in a barrel... With a cannon.

what about scoring pace and potential? Let’s look at actual results.

turns out I was right about 2021, by a lot. Shooting fish in a barrel lol. Let’s revisit this again next year, maybe Mantha will finally our produce him then

REINHART

Goals: 23
Points: 37

MANTHA

Goals: 15
Points: 27

now Mantha will play on a stacked offensive team and we can see what he does. He clearly couldn’t reach his potential on his own or with Larkin. He is 26, it would have happened by now. Reinhart has played most this year without eichel and has produced just as much.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Reinhart is completely dependent on Eichel to produce, and considering how dominant Eichel is that production even with Eichel is still disappointing.

well, you were wrong because we got to see reinhart without eichel. 20 points (13 goals) in 29 games without eichel