Management Thread: There Is No Hope

[supercanuck]

As someone with very limited knowledge of GM's in general, I'm gonna say Chiarelli.

Watching him fumbling around in Alberta is like watching a monkey having a diarrhea running around in panic while I'm on the toilet constipating, it makes me forget about my own pain for just a brief moment.

Yep for me it's (worst first):
1) Aquilini saying F-it and just doing it himself (is that allowed?)
2) Weisbrod
3) Chiarelli

 

[Bubbles]

Question for folks here, mainly as a time killing exercise while we wait for news on this regime. Who would be a “from bad to worse” choice for the Canucks’ next GM? I see a lot of posts agreeing Benning needs to be fired, but a lot of others saying “not Rutherford”, “not Tallon”, “not Chiarelli”, etc. And then there’s others who feel literally anyone would be better than Benning.

So my question is - if Benning is fired, is there someone who - if hired - you think would be even worse?

Weekes - People are saying he was close to the Pens job, which I don't believe. They interviewed him but that doesn't mean they were "close". Weekes is more of a Bob McKenzie type than management.

John Ferguson Jr - Time basically made people forgot how horrible he bungled the Leafs. And yet his name is popping up for potential GM jobs.

 

[F A N]

Hard question to answer specifically but I'll give a general comment. They need to break free from the OBC. A lot of these guys need to be respected for their hockey careers. But that doesn't make them good managers. Some are good - Sakic and Yzerman, for example. But if your only qualification if being "a part of the league for years" then the answer is absolutely not. And there are lots of those guys out there. Of the attributes useful towards success as a GM being a hockey guy is far down the list.

Plus Yzerman mentored under Holland so he wasn’t just picked for being a hockey guy.

Yzerman should very much be considered to be in the OBC. He was given the opportunities he had because of what he meant to the Red Wings franchise as a player. Heck, ownership wanted to offer Yzerman the GM job before Yzerman went to Tampa but Holland wouldn't step down.

NHL owners and GMs clearly embrace former players. Pronger, Drury, Botterill, Sweeney, Blake, Luongo, Francis etc. most of these guys were put into key front office positions within 2 years of getting a post-playing NHL job. That's how the OBC works. Former players gets put into the position to having their desired careers fast tracked. Luongo is going to be an AGM soon and if he succeeds with Team Canada he'll be a strong candidate for an NHL GM position soon. If Burrows has an aspiration to become a head coach, don't be surprised if Burrows gets an AHL head coaching position with the Canucks or Montreal AHL franchises over the next 2-3 years.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I would take just about anyone other than these guys. They proved it to me in season 1 they didn't have the wherewithal to assess the team correctly, instill a plan, and follow that plan to success.

I don't want the old retreads either, but I'd take any of those names above over what is here. Those guys are respected, the guys we have are "marks" and everyone they deal with knows it.

This is more or less where I'm at. I have a hard time of thinking someone I would want running this team less than Jim Benning at the moment, to be honest.

 

[I am toxic]

The "teams rebuilt" is some of the silliest commentary on this board. By that measure every team is "rebuilt" from 7 years ago. It's not even worth the typing it takes to put it out there.

Teams turnover in professional sports, these athletes have finite careers and small primes.

Having a completely different set of players in 7 seasons isn't rebuilding nor is it out of the ordinary. It's a silly deflection.

But notice how it is weaseled into the "normal" conversation.

It's been quite an education these past years at HFCanucks on intellectually dishonest bad faith debating.

My belief is now that we recognize it immediately, we are able to stamp it out so that we can engage in good faith debating on the future of this team.

That's my belief.

 

[Peen]

A new manager has to come in and immediately assess whether they have a chance to make this team into anything over the next couple of seasons. And they have to do so honestly...not simply come in and say it can be turned around in a hurry if it can't.

If it can't then you do need to seriously look at moving Horvat and Miller given they are UFA in two years time. And yes I would look to make those moves right away if that was the decision. It would hurt to move Horvat but it could also give an actual rebuild the kick it needs. Provided there was competence in the office making that move.

The people who love Jimmy Potatoes love to say "yeah but this team is close" but they don't acknowledge that there's only one player with long term security in the organization - Demko. Our young players need big contracts and will need a follow up long term deal within the next 2-3 years. Like you said, Bo and Miller expire in two years.

They need a top pairing level RHD, a second pair D to partner with Schmidt, and an elite 3rd line center.

They also do not have the assets to dump their bad deals or acquire the pieces. Their only expandable assets are total shit. I think the only truly expandable young assets are one of Hughes/Rathbone due to redundancy and this upcoming 1st (even though the cupboards are already bare).

To get this, they need to dump the salaries of guys like Eriksson, Roussel, Beagle, Holtby, Virtanen, and Myers. Myers cannot stay. He is not a fit with any of Rathbone, Schmidt, or Hughes. This is $25MM of capspace.
If you don't think there is an avenue towards getting those three pieces within the next season and Horvat/Miller's asks are excessive, the immediate window is dead.

So no, this isn't an easy situation with all the core pieces in place considering this isn't Toronto and not all the long term pieces are locked up and that a majority of the season, we iced 5 blue liners over the age of 30 with the one under 30 being one of the worst defensive players in the NHL.

 

[I am toxic]

The only time there was any semblance of a rebuild was like the first little bit of 2017 where they dealt Burrows and Hansen, and didn't add more than one albatross contract. I still don't think Gagner was THAT terrible of an add and was just misused.

One of those moves was done for expansion draft purposes, so even though the result was a rebuilding type move, the process really was not.

Sad.

Very sad.

Edit: I see 420 beat me to it. How toxi . . . oh, wait, that's a good thing

 

[MS]

Question for folks here, mainly as a time killing exercise while we wait for news on this regime. Who would be a “from bad to worse” choice for the Canucks’ next GM? I see a lot of posts agreeing Benning needs to be fired, but a lot of others saying “not Rutherford”, “not Tallon”, “not Chiarelli”, etc. And then there’s others who feel literally anyone would be better than Benning.

So my question is - if Benning is fired, is there someone who - if hired - you think would be even worse?

Literally nobody.

Tallon is the only one who is even in the same universe but he's still not close.

There are 'bad' options out there like Chiarelli or JFJ or totally unqualified media people like Kevin Weekes but I think most of these people have at least some intelligence and management ability.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This is more or less where I'm at. I have a hard time of thinking someone I would want running this team less than Jim Benning at the moment, to be honest.

Agreed. Any move is an improvement. But replacing him with a mediocre GM just means more years of mediocrity. If the Canucks can get the right guy then I think this can be turned around more quickly than many expect. The franchise is at a really critical juncture and the right guy needs to be brought in or Pettersson’s, Hughes etc will just have their primes wasted.

 

[m9]

Question for folks here, mainly as a time killing exercise while we wait for news on this regime. Who would be a “from bad to worse” choice for the Canucks’ next GM? I see a lot of posts agreeing Benning needs to be fired, but a lot of others saying “not Rutherford”, “not Tallon”, “not Chiarelli”, etc. And then there’s others who feel literally anyone would be better than Benning.

So my question is - if Benning is fired, is there someone who - if hired - you think would be even worse?

The two guys I want no part of are Rutherford & Tallon. And if Bob Murray becomes available, then he would also be on that list.

My hesitance with a new hire isn't that they are worse than Benning because that is likely impossible - it's that then we might have a bad GM on a reset clock. If Treliving, Dorion or Bergevin become available and they went in that direction I would be scared because I don't think they are good GMs but will get a longer leash than what Benning has left. It would be a short-term upgrade but be bad long-term.

I'm going to be pretty open to whoever comes in, though. I'm excited for a clean slate.

 

[iceburg]

Yzerman should very much be considered to be in the OBC. He was given the opportunities he had because of what he meant to the Red Wings franchise as a player. Heck, ownership wanted to offer Yzerman the GM job before Yzerman went to Tampa but Holland wouldn't step down.

NHL owners and GMs clearly embrace former players. Pronger, Drury, Botterill, Sweeney, Blake, Luongo, Francis etc. most of these guys were put into key front office positions within 2 years of getting a post-playing NHL job. That's how the OBC works. Former players gets put into the position to having their desired careers fast tracked. Luongo is going to be an AGM soon and if he succeeds with Team Canada he'll be a strong candidate for an NHL GM position soon. If Burrows has an aspiration to become a head coach, don't be surprised if Burrows gets an AHL head coaching position with the Canucks or Montreal AHL franchises over the next 2-3 years.

...my point about not being the only qualification. Being in the OBC doesn't disqualify an individual it is just an insufficient qualification. But to your point, former players who are considered part of the OBC are typically fast tracked into the round hole whether square peg or otherwise. It's the square pegs I don't want. And, IMO, JB is an historical example of one of those square pegs.

 

[MS]

The two guys I want no part of are Rutherford & Tallon. And if Bob Murray becomes available, then he would also be on that list.

My hesitance with a new hire isn't that they are worse than Benning because that is likely impossible - it's that then we might have a bad GM on a reset clock. If Treliving, Dorion or Bergevin become available and they went in that direction I would be scared because I don't think they are good GMs but will get a longer leash than what Benning has left. It would be a short-term upgrade but be bad long-term.

I'm going to be pretty open to whoever comes in, though. I'm excited for a clean slate.

Yes, that is the thing, where 3 years of Tallon could potentially be worse than 1 more year of Benning. But I'd still take the risk because at this point Jim Benning just makes me sick.

I'd be shocked if we brought in a 71 y/o Tallon, though. Not a move you could sell to the fans, even a little bit.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Question for folks here, mainly as a time killing exercise while we wait for news on this regime. Who would be a “from bad to worse” choice for the Canucks’ next GM? I see a lot of posts agreeing Benning needs to be fired, but a lot of others saying “not Rutherford”, “not Tallon”, “not Chiarelli”, etc. And then there’s others who feel literally anyone would be better than Benning.

So my question is - if Benning is fired, is there someone who - if hired - you think would be even worse?

1) Chiarelli.
2) Tallon I have no interest in.
3) Rutherford doesn't do it for me. IMHO he's lost it.

As for the rest...just no more new faces. No more promoting from within this clearly compromised and clearly mismanaged organization. Maybe they can finally give Lombardi the independence he's asked for, I dunno. I'd be cool with that. But nobody for whom it would be their first official GM job. I want someone with a proven track record in that position, someone whose experience speaks for itself. There'll be someone available after the season officially ends and the various firings commence.

And it should go without saying that Weisbrod is the default answer to the question.

 

[EpochLink]

Yzerman should very much be considered to be in the OBC. He was given the opportunities he had because of what he meant to the Red Wings franchise as a player. Heck, ownership wanted to offer Yzerman the GM job before Yzerman went to Tampa but Holland wouldn't step down.

NHL owners and GMs clearly embrace former players. Pronger, Drury, Botterill, Sweeney, Blake, Luongo, Francis etc. most of these guys were put into key front office positions within 2 years of getting a post-playing NHL job. That's how the OBC works. Former players gets put into the position to having their desired careers fast tracked. Luongo is going to be an AGM soon and if he succeeds with Team Canada he'll be a strong candidate for an NHL GM position soon. If Burrows has an aspiration to become a head coach, don't be surprised if Burrows gets an AHL head coaching position with the Canucks or Montreal AHL franchises over the next 2-3 years.

This is how you do it ‘the right way’, players whom been groomed from the bottom up to higher positions within management. Luongo is doing it ‘the right way’, Burrows is also doing it ‘the right way’.

Like it or not, the OBC run the NHL.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

does anyone know why kevin weekes' name has been floating around for multiple GM jobs?

i don't know anything about him other than seeing him on tv

but i'd say, assuming he's smart and that there's a good reason he's getting interviews, this job would probably be a disaster for him. afaik, he has no real experience at this level, and as a guy who whether he's the best candidate or not will get trotted out by the organization as an EDI hire, the scrutiny of this market, the overwhelming negative atmosphere surrounding this team and its ownership/management, and the "but affirmative action" people inevitably questioning his hire will destroy him.

 

[F A N]

...my point about not being the only qualification. Being in the OBC doesn't disqualify an individual it is just an insufficient qualification. But to your point, former players who are considered part of the OBC are typically fast tracked into the round hole whether square peg or otherwise. It's the square pegs I don't want. And, IMO, JB is an historical example of one of those square pegs.

JB worked his way up the ladder though. He doesn't belong to the same class of former players who were put into an important front office position within 2 years of starting their non-playing NHL jobs.

 

[I am toxic]

1) Chiarelli.
2) Tallon I have no interest in.
3) Rutherford doesn't do it for me. IMHO he's lost it.

As for the rest...just no more new faces. No more promoting from within this clearly compromised and clearly mismanaged organization. Maybe they can finally give Lombardi the independence he's asked for, I dunno. I'd be cool with that. But nobody for whom it would be their first official GM job. I want someone with a proven track record in that position, someone whose experience speaks for itself. There'll be someone available after the season officially ends and the various firings commence.

And it should go without saying that Weisbrod is the default answer to the question.

I have issues with how Lombardi treated Richards.

It is not consistent with how I expect Canucks org to conduct themselves off-ice/in-the-community.

 

[EpochLink]

does anyone know why kevin weekes' name has been floating around for multiple GM jobs?

i don't know anything about him other than seeing him on tv

but i'd say, assuming he's smart and that there's a good reason he's getting interviews, this job would probably be a disaster for him. afaik, he has no real experience at this level, and as a guy who whether he's the best candidate or not will get trotted out by the organization as an EDI hire, the scrutiny of this market, the overwhelming negative atmosphere surrounding this team and its ownership/management, and the "but affirmative action" people inevitably questioning his hire will destroy him.

Kevin Weekes has connections, he has friends within organizations, he may stink up the joint as a goaltender but if you know people and you know your shit on hockey…they gonna be groomed to management.

 

[timw33]

The only time there was any semblance of a rebuild was like the first little bit of 2017 where they dealt Burrows and Hansen, and didn't add more than one albatross contract. I still don't think Gagner was THAT terrible of an add and was just misused.

And even that situation they didn't target pure pick packages for some reason, kept trying their stupid age gap theory.

 

[Bubbles]

does anyone know why kevin weekes' name has been floating around for multiple GM jobs?

i don't know anything about him other than seeing him on tv

but i'd say, assuming he's smart and that there's a good reason he's getting interviews, this job would probably be a disaster for him. afaik, he has no real experience at this level, and as a guy who whether he's the best candidate or not will get trotted out by the organization as an EDI hire, the scrutiny of this market, the overwhelming negative atmosphere surrounding this team and its ownership/management, and the "but affirmative action" people inevitably questioning his hire will destroy him.

He established a lot of connections when he was with Hockey Night in Canada and the NHL Network. Plus a pretty long career with a lot of teams so he has lots of personal connections with many ex an current players.

Also, friends with Brian Burke (OBC King). Probably why he even got interview for the Pens.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Let’s be honest we want a change. Benning being fired would be a good first step. But if we get someone like chiarelli/tallon/JR/ JFJ we will all be outraged again! Think we are all ready for a fresh new look. Let’s let the “older, been there tried that” go. Give me someone of a slightly younger generation and not the have-beens.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Question for folks here, mainly as a time killing exercise while we wait for news on this regime. Who would be a “from bad to worse” choice for the Canucks’ next GM? I see a lot of posts agreeing Benning needs to be fired, but a lot of others saying “not Rutherford”, “not Tallon”, “not Chiarelli”, etc. And then there’s others who feel literally anyone would be better than Benning.

So my question is - if Benning is fired, is there someone who - if hired - you think would be even worse?

From a PR standpoint probably Chiarelli, assuming the ownership is smart enough to stay away from absolute idiocy hires like Keenan or Milbury.

But likely, as before, it'll be a rookie GM with little experience. Which I don't mind. Everyone starts somewhere, but hiring people out of the blue just because they are a former player is stupid.

 

[Hemty]

Does anyone know anything about Chris Gear? I've seen people throw his name around here/twitter.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Does anyone know anything about Chris Gear? I've seen people throw his name around here/twitter.

Going purely from memory - I think he's handled a lot of recent contract work, and I think he was also heavily involved in the operation of the Utica Comets for the last year or two.

EDIT: Here's some info. He's been around in some capacity since the 2010/2011 season.

Vancouver Canucks promote Chris Gear to assistant general manager | The Province

 

[Vector]

I am fully prepared to get absolutely no news this week and Benning just quietly keep his job. No announcement from management. They hope the anger will blow over and the expansion draft, entry draft, and free agency, being able to see games in person will bring fans back.