Management Thread | Starting with a Thud Edition

[Vector]

The gullible part of me hopes that JR is now going to Aqua's face and saying "See! You're plan didn't work! Now let us do OUR thing!"

That's what I cling to. Sweet sweet hope.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The gullible part of me hopes that JR is now going to Aqua's face and saying "See! You're plan didn't work! Now let us do OUR thing!"

I have a hard time believing JR (and Alvin) isn't in the drivers seat here.

Aqua sets the goal: "Make playoffs right now!"
JR and Alvin decide what to do to try to accomplish said goal.

 

[valkynax]

That's what I cling to. Sweet sweet hope.

Yep, JR's giving us a lot to hope for.

 

[Vector]

I have a hard time believing JR (and Alvin) isn't in the drivers seat here.

Aqua sets the goal: "Make playoffs right now!"
JR and Alvin decide what to do to try to accomplish said goal.

My actual reaction to the Friedman quote is "yes...and?" That's pretty typical and I already knew that's how the organization works. If Rutherford and Allvin truly don't believe they can make ownership's direction work then they need to explain why alternatives are better. This team is always going to be saddled with only short term success because of ownership.

Regardless, how management executes is on themselves. There's definitely a path to succeed with this group but they took a, at most charitable, very poor route.

 

[supercanuck]

I have a hard time believing JR (and Alvin) isn't in the drivers seat here.

Aqua sets the goal: "Make playoffs right now!"
JR and Alvin decide what to do to try to accomplish said goal.

Yeah, probably just wishful thinking. The only thing still giving me hope is that I feel like what they actually did vs what they said the team needed to do is quite different. One possible conclusion is outside influence from Aqua.

 

[TruGr1t]

I still laugh thinking they sat around had a meeting and at the end of it they decided giving Miller 8 years made sense

It was absurd and immediately made me question this new management group. They had been stalwartly stuck on a number all off-season, and then all of a sudden caved on a stupid deal they didn't need to sign for no apparent reason.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I have a hard time believing JR (and Alvin) isn't in the drivers seat here.

Aqua sets the goal: "Make playoffs right now!"
JR and Alvin decide what to do to try to accomplish said goal.

I could see it being too much for JR and him finally just resigning.
Then have Swedish Jimbo taking over.
Castonguay and Granato leaving thereafter
Then once again left with a bare bones FO with FAQ, Allvin and Clancy running the show.

I just hope the franchise gets sold to a guy who doesn't see himself as being a "hockey mind."

 

[4Twenty]

Re-signing Miller like the Dickinson cap dump move would’ve made a lot more sense if there was a significant follow up move (and I don’t mean one forced by ANOTHER bad start to a season).

But the timing of the Miller deal was curious and to me probably signified the player realizing he needed to get the bag soon because that 99 point label can disappear quickly.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It was absurd and immediately made me question this new management group. They had been stalwartly stuck on a number all off-season, and then all of a sudden caved on a stupid deal they didn't need to sign for no apparent reason.

Yeah.

In a vacuum the deal isnt bad value for Miller. But it shows a disconnect between the management and what the reality of this team currently is.

When my little brother (who I've infected with Canuckitis , whopsie ) linked me the Miller extension I thought it was a joke or a meme. Just like when he linked me the OEL trade. Obviously the Miller extension in a vacuum isn't as bad as the OEL trade was. But still..

 

[m9]

I could see it being too much for JR and him finally just resigning.
Swedish Jimbo takes over. Castonguay and Granato resign thereafter.
You are essentially left with FAQ, Allvin and Clancy running the show.

I've said it before but JR resigning would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to this organization. Worse than trading EP or any other player. It would mean that there is a massive fundamental issue with this franchise where ownership isn't allowing management to make decisions.

 

[Jyrki21]

One major thing that is concerning to me is that this is two straight regimes who don't seem to have a pulse of the dynamic in the locker room. The last group moved guys like Tanev & Toffoli who were obviously glue guys and then brought in guys who weren't a fit here. This latest group seems to be broken in some way and has been for awhile, yet the same guys keep coming back.

People are saying this a lot, but if they had a good defense I doubt they would seem that "broken".

 

[F A N]

Found part of it. The full interview had him positively gushing. Look at @Bourne Endeavor 's quotes to get a fuller picture of what he was thinking (or not thinking.)



The big thing for me was "every year" and him absolutely not understanding what happened in Phoenix.

Huh? This is what he said: "When I first came out here 7 years ago and watched him play he was such a good all around player and I said to myself if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year."

That is past tense. He said to himself 7 years ago that if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year, which is likely true.

He also said "Last few years maybe he wasn't as good..."

How you interpret this as Benning saying OEL would have been a Norris contender in his last couple of seasons in Arizona had he played out East is baffling to me. It's like you hear Benning say Norris and be like OMG he said OEL and Norris in the same sentence!

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Re-signing Miller like the Dickinson cap dump move would’ve made a lot more sense if there was a significant follow up move (and I don’t mean one forced by ANOTHER bad start to a season).

But the timing of the Miller deal was curious and to me probably signified the player realizing he needed to get the bag soon because that 99 point label can disappear quickly.

I think they felt they couldn't go into the season with the Miller situation unresolved, as did many.

Then again no one was expecting this.

 

[Nucker101]

Huh? This is what he said: "When I first came out here 7 years ago and watched him play he was such a good all around player and I said to myself if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year."

That is past tense. He said to himself 7 years ago that if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year, which is likely true.

He also said "Last few years maybe he wasn't as good..."

How you interpret this as Benning saying OEL would have been a Norris contender in his last couple of seasons in Arizona had he played out East is baffling to me. It's like you hear Benning say Norris and be like OMG he said OEL and Norris in the same sentence!

Yeah to me the hilarious part was more that he literally said "I don't know" when asked why OEL struggled in Arizona the last few years and yet still traded for him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Huh? This is what he said: "When I first came out here 7 years ago and watched him play he was such a good all around player and I said to myself if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year."

That is past tense. He said to himself 7 years ago that if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year, which is likely true.

He also said "Last few years maybe he wasn't as good..."

How you interpret this as Benning saying OEL would have been a Norris contender in his last couple of seasons in Arizona had he played out East is baffling to me. It's like you hear Benning say Norris and be like OMG he said OEL and Norris in the same sentence!

Who cares.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Ownership setting the direction of the team is like relying on my wife to drive us anywhere new without GPS.

Neither knows where they are going.

 

[sting101]

People are saying this a lot, but if they had a good defense I doubt they would seem that "broken".

Agree it's just a bad mix on ice

Lots of skill but without the speed defensive acumen structure and workhorses up front to help mask the defense issues also

When i saw that Amen Kuzmenko Garland trio i just threw my hands in the air. I've been around hockey long enough to know that didn't have a hope in hell of being anything other than a mess.

It's odd. Pettersson has emerged in every way as the top C on this team so far this year. The trio with him and the 2 russians had been tilting the ice and missed a plethora of tap ins and open looks. On paper it was incredibly hopeful that a winger duo of a career 30 NHL points would be relied upon to be the #1 line though for a whole season but Kuzmenko was highly regarded and had been leading in HDC so why not keep teams under fire and at least have some patience?

Miller Horvat Garland should have been an easy other top6 scoring line. Garland by far has the best history and 2 goals yet ends up a btm6 plug asked to play with one of weirdest trios of the last few yrs. Michayev is as advertized by TO fans not a top6 player but a very good 3rd liner. And if everything is rolling and you balance 3 lines and he's the 3rd guy with a couple scorers sure but were hardly rolling and hardly in a position to balance 3 lines with 6 wingers without a 5v5 goal in that arrangement

Pearson and Michayev with Lazar/Aman should have been an easy 3rd line alignment and Hoglander should be coming off the 4th line where he can help add some spark and skill amongst the leftovers until he gets at least some confidence around the net.

The D we already know is missing a top2 guy. Losing Hughes just piles on that knowledge and losing 3 proven NHLers 2 of which in Dermott and Poolman who have shown well in depth roles just accentuates the problem on D. even more.

The group is fragmented from the Coach to the top3 lines to the defense and of course the PK starts the year yielding 30% shot Pct and Demko struggles to put the cherry on top.

I wouldn't fire Bruce but they need to sit down and get a hold of this before it spirals completely off the rails. The last thing they should do is give a get out of jail pass by firing people.

 

[MS]

Agree it's just a bad mix on ice

Lots of skill but without the speed defensive acumen structure and workhorses up front to help mask the defensive issues also

When i saw that Amen Kuzmenko Garland trio i just threw my hands in the air. I've been around hockey long enough to know that didn't have a hope in hell of being anything other than a mess.

It's odd. Pettersson has emerged in every way as the top C on this team so far this year. The trio with him and the 2 russians had been tilting the ice and missed a plethora of tap ins and open looks. On paper it was incredibly hopeful that a winger duo of a career 30 NHL points would be relied upon to be the #1 line though for a whole season but Kuzmenko was highly regarded and had been leading in HDC so why not keep teams under fire and at least have some patience?

Miller Horvat Garland should have been an easy other top6 scoring line. Garland by far has the best history and 2 goals yet ends up a btm6 plug asked to play with one of weirdest trios of the last few yrs. Michayev is as advertized by TO fans not a top6 player but a very good 3rd liner. And sure if everything is rolling and you balance 3 lines and he's the 3rd guy with a couple scorers sure but were hardly rolling and hardly in a position to balance 3 lines with 6 wingers without a 5v5 goal in that arrangement

Pearson and Michayev with Lazar should have been an easy 3rd line alignment and Hoglander should be coming off the 4th line where he can help add some spark and skill amongst the leftovers until he gets at least some confidence around the net.

The D we already know is missing a top2 guy. Losing Hughes just piles on that knowledge and losing 3 proven NHLers 2 of which in Dermott and Poolman who have shown well in depth roles just accentuates the problem on D. even more.

The group is fragmented from the Coach to the top3 lines to the defense and of course the PK starts the year yielding 30% shot Pct and Demko struggles to put the cherry on top.

I wouldn't fire Bruce but they need to sit down and get a hold of this before it spirals completely off the rails. The last thing they should do is give a get out of jail pass by firing people.

Bolded is spot on.

The coach is flailing and just seems to be changing his lines every game with no rhyme/reason and no understanding into what was working and why. He's throwing shit on the wall and hoping something sticks.

Pettersson/Kuzmenko have been crushing teams whenever they've been together but have been absolutely snakebit. But they've had no patience to just wait that out for the goals to start pouring in so instead we have a guy with 4 goals in his last 50 games playing with Pettersson. Or Lazar there at one point. It's just stupid.

And yeah, Garland-Aman-Kuzmenko was about the most pointless thing ever.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Agree it's just a bad mix on ice

Lots of skill but without the speed defensive acumen structure and workhorses up front to help mask the defensive issues also

When i saw that Amen Kuzmenko Garland trio i just threw my hands in the air. I've been around hockey long enough to know that didn't have a hope in hell of being anything other than a mess.

It's odd. Pettersson has emerged in every way as the top C on this team so far this year. The trio with him and the 2 russians had been tilting the ice and missed a plethora of tap ins and open looks. On paper it was incredibly hopeful that a winger duo of a career 30 NHL points would be relied upon to be the #1 line though for a whole season but Kuzmenko was highly regarded and had been leading in HDC so why not keep teams under fire and at least have some patience?

Miller Horvat Garland should have been an easy other top6 scoring line. Garland by far has the best history and 2 goals yet ends up a btm6 plug asked to play with one of weirdest trios of the last few yrs. Michayev is as advertized by TO fans not a top6 player but a very good 3rd liner. And sure if everything is rolling and you balance 3 lines and he's the 3rd guy with a couple scorers sure but were hardly rolling and hardly in a position to balance 3 lines with 6 wingers without a 5v5 goal in that arrangement

Pearson and Michayev with Lazar should have been an easy 3rd line alignment and Hoglander should be coming off the 4th line where he can help add some spark and skill amongst the leftovers until he gets at least some confidence around the net.

The D we already know is missing a top2 guy. Losing Hughes just piles on that knowledge and losing 3 proven NHLers 2 of which in Dermott and Poolman who have shown well in depth roles just accentuates the problem on D. even more.

The group is fragmented from the Coach to the top3 lines to the defense and of course the PK starts the year yielding 30% shot Pct and Demko struggles to put the cherry on top.

I wouldn't fire Bruce but they need to sit down and get a hold of this before it spirals completely off the rails. The last thing they should do is give a get out of jail pass by firing people.

2 or 3 more consecutive losses could be the death knell of this core as we know it...Realistically, they just wont be able to make up all of the lost ground...Another death march to the end of the year starting in November would tune everybody out...They will have little choice but to start again, and that would not include EP, or Hughes as these players will undoubtably move on.

Its not as if the Canucks have lost all these games by being blown out this season..The only team that has looked vastly superior were the Canes last night..Results are results though, and were still waiting for the season to start for the Canucks..They obviously haven't collectively been on the same page since day 1 of training camp.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Huh? This is what he said: "When I first came out here 7 years ago and watched him play he was such a good all around player and I said to myself if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year."

That is past tense. He said to himself 7 years ago that if he'd playing out east he'd be up for a Norris trophy every year, which is likely true.

He also said "Last few years maybe he wasn't as good..."

How you interpret this as Benning saying OEL would have been a Norris contender in his last couple of seasons in Arizona had he played out East is baffling to me. It's like you hear Benning say Norris and be like OMG he said OEL and Norris in the same sentence!

The key part of that quote is "every year" and, again, literally everything he was saying about how he was going to be a #1 stud defender for the Canucks and having zero explanation as to why his play fell off a cliff other than maybe "Coyotes bad." (Like the Canucks aren't/weren't.)

Again, look at Bourne's quotes when he was singing OEL's praises. He clearly still saw him as this amazing defender who should be a Norris candidate based on how he was describing how he would fit into the team.

Benning's hockey card stats mentality that's backdated by ~10 years is pretty f***ing well documented. Backed up with his public statements, it's like causality is a foreign concept to you, lmao.

Also, the use of the word "maybe." Like, "maybe" he was bad, but maybe he wasn't. Sure doesn't sound like he was convinced that OEL was playing badly.

 

[MS]

The key part of that quote is "every year" and, again, literally everything he was saying about how he was going to be a #1 stud defender for the Canucks and having zero explanation as to why his play fell off a cliff other than maybe "Coyotes bad." (Like the Canucks aren't/weren't.)

Again, look at Bourne's quotes when he was singing OEL's praises. He clearly still saw him as this amazing defender who should be a Norris candidate based on how he was describing how he would fit into the team.

Benning's hockey card stats mentality that's backdated by ~10 years is pretty f***ing well documented. Backed up with his public statements, it's like causality is a foreign concept to you, lmao.

Also, the use of the word "maybe." Like, "maybe" he was bad, but maybe he wasn't. Sure doesn't sound like he was convinced that OEL was playing badly.

I believe there was also a different interview where Benning flat-out stated that he expected OEL to be an all-situations #1 defender for the team.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

The turn around last year was both good and the worst thing that could possibly happen. The good was the renaissance of Pettersson playing like rookie Pettersson. The problem is that league scoring has gone up since his rookie year. We need him to be BETTER than his rookie year for him to have the same effect. But yeah, give Elias his Russians back. They were the only line that could be counted to tilt the ice in our favour. Elias was peg before last game. Also if were going to have Miller at wing we need to get a real 3rd line center.

How last years turn around really hurt us is that it made us double down on this flawed group. Both the Miller and Boeser extensions were mistakes, and really hinder are cap flexibility. I agree with MS that a tear it down rebuild wasn’t an option, but just resigning our old core to more expensive deals wasn’t the answer either. Really wish we would of been more like Carolina and Florida where team build is more focussed on using cap space to your advantage and knowing how important it is to have players overplaying their cap hit.

I just dont think the make up of our team is built for success. We’re supposed to be a skill team but were below average at scoring goals since the beginning of last year. We don’t have enough strong 2way forwards, and a bad defence. We rely way too much on goaltending and we aren’t getting it right now.

 

[4Twenty]

I think they felt they couldn't go into the season with the Miller situation unresolved, as did many.

Then again no one was expecting this.

I mean I kinda see it but then you’re leaving your captain waiving in the wind so it doesn’t really make sense.

I honestly think the player via agent probably bridged the gap by only asking 7 years. He/they had to maximize the earnings after that 99 point season. I think they knew it was likely not repeatable.



———-

The turnaround last season was clearly done in abnormal circumstances that shouldn’t have been viewed like many folks took it. Even then anytime they actually made the gap reasonable, they folded like a cheap lawn chair.

It reminds me of the folks who thought because the series with Vegas went 7 in the bubble that it was close.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I mean I kinda see it but then you’re leaving your captain waiving in the wind so it doesn’t really make sense.

I honestly think the player via agent probably bridged the gap by only asking 7 years. He/they had to maximize the earnings after that 99 point season. I think they knew it was likely not repeatable.



———-

The turnaround last season was clearly done in abnormal circumstances that shouldn’t have been viewed like many folks took it. Even then anytime they actually made the gap reasonable, they folded like a cheap lawn chair.

It reminds me of the folks who thought because the series with Vegas went 7 in the bubble that it was close.

But in fairness they underachieved to start last season too. With even an average PK (say, having someone like Jason Dickinson do what he was paid for) they're a playoff team last year.

I understand why they wanted to get it taken care of, and I also understand why they felt it would be easier to hold off on Bo, but with the way things have played out it would be better if things had gone differently.

 

[sting101]

2 or 3 more consecutive losses could be the death knell of this core as we know it...Realistically, they just wont be able to make up all of the lost ground...Another death march to the end of the year starting in November would tune everybody out...They will have little choice but to start again, and that would not include EP, or Hughes as these players will undoubtably move on.

Its not as if the Canucks have lost all these games by being blown out this season..The only team that has looked vastly superior were the Canes last night..Results are results though, and were still waiting for the season to start for the Canucks..They obviously haven't collectively been on the same page since day 1 of training camp.

Spare me the drama. "little choice but to start again"??

A lost year with this draft with some substantial change might be just what the doctor ordered for Pettersson and Hughes. These guys are not stupid

I've said this before and i'll say it again i would have zero issues moving anyone that hangs their fuxxing head because they see the chances of a cup as futile. You're either in or your out as far as i'm concerned. 32 teams and this is a great city to be in counting your millions if you work your ass off. If your looking elsewhere lets get you outta here

Give me Barzal and Dobson and the 2 can go to NY and be close to his brothers and Petey can get a fresh start. Or futures i dont really care. Never would i play hostage to a drama queen like Luongo ever again by being afraid to make changes or not stroke the ego of a player enough.

Would i want it to happen of course not but there is plenty rope left on those contracts to build a market if that's what they want.

I see you post this warning and it's the exact reason why we never win cups in Canada because we dont put the damn teams first and feel like we owe it to somebody or have to sign some stupid contract as band aids to appease so we don't lose them.

I posted a "so you think you can draft roster" from a moron like me that spends 3 months watching draft eligibles and a years worth of WHL action. I've said this before and got push back. IT TAKES 7 YRS TO BUILD A FRANCHISE FROM THE DRAFT. It's not some random number i came up with it's from multiple professionals that work in the NHL in scouting. It's the same damn thing that Linden was told and why he didn't want to forge ahead yet but........that's another story

Yes if you get a superstar that changes everything but we dont and we chopped 3-1sts and so many 2nds and 3rds i've lost track. And the real unfortunate part is we drafted and developed poorly as it turns out and to top it off we owed it to the Sedins we owed it to Horvat and this group to shine up a turd and cap ourselves out of the ability to maneuver.

"Petey and Huggy" love the 2 of them but i could care less if they want out while doing what's best for the franchise