Management Discussion Thread | Vin the Off-Season!

[Hit the post]

One thing I legitimately enjoy about this management group is we have absolutely no idea when anything is going down.

One thing I can legitmately say about the Benning management group is that they have absolutely no idea about anything.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

1) Farm - Lekkerimaki, Rathbone, and Karlsson are all legit assets in my opinion. Rathbone will have a reasonable shot of making the team this year on the 3rd pairing, while I can definitely see Karlsson making the 4th line once the Canucks are ready to move on from Pearson (Hoglander takes Pearson's spot while Karlsson moves onto the 4th line). I'll explain Lekkerimaki in my 3rd point.

2) Even with future extensions to Pettersson and Podkolzin, we will still have enough money to improve our team once Pearson, Dickinson, and Myers come off the books and replace those contracts with better value. A year later, the same thing can happen with Poolman off the books.

3) If Lekkerimaki pans out, he can step into line up either next season or the year after, and replace one of Boeser or Garland (who can then be moved for picks and/or prospects)......which would give us even more cap space to make our team more well rounded.

4) 1st and 2nd rounds picks over these next few years. If the Canucks can retain all/most of their picks over these coming years (unlike the Benning regime), then we should have plenty of enough time to build up our farm over these next 3-4 seasons (I say 3-4 seasons because some of our core players such as Boeser and Demko will become UFA's over this time).

So with respect PuckMunchkin, I'm not sure if I share your decidedly 'half-glass empty' outlook of the Canucks.

We have a botto 10 maybe bottom 5 prospect pool in the league.

Those players you list have to be replaced. From UFA that will not be cost effective.

Lekkerimäki replacing a top producer like Boeser / Garland next year is a pipe dream. Lets see him be an NHL player at some point first before we go there.

If we are drafting high enough to get impact players semi relably the next 3-4 years that means we are not in the playoffs.

no assets ... open your eyes man. there are young players in the farm system, maybe not chock a block with blue chippers but still some darts that could play out. you're sold on the negative narrative, the all mighty "cap space rules all". every team that wants to contend is spending to the cap... maybe YOU don't understand how it works. keep drinking that koolaid.

Not worth responding to.. Make an actual case for your point of view.

 

[andora]

We have a botto 10 maybe bottom 5 prospect pool in the league.

Those players you list have to be replaced. From UFA that will not be cost effective.

Lekkerimäki replacing a top producer like Boeser / Garland next year is a pipe dream. Lets see him be an NHL player at some point first before we go there.

If we are drafting high enough to get impact players semi relably the next 3-4 years that means we are not in the playoffs.


Not worth responding to.. Make an actual case for your point of view.

With the way myers gets talked about around here he would be replaced with a 1 million dollar ufa..

 

[TruGr1t]

With the way myers gets talked about around here he would be replaced with a 1 million dollar ufa..

No kidding.

I guess people aren't aware of the exceptionally great track record of trying to build a contender through free agency ... 60% of the time, it works every time. Especially effective when you have a bottom-of-the-barrel farm system and not a lot of impact players on ELCs.

 

[Metalwood]

We have a botto 10 maybe bottom 5 prospect pool in the league.

Those players you list have to be replaced. From UFA that will not be cost effective.

Lekkerimäki replacing a top producer like Boeser / Garland next year is a pipe dream. Lets see him be an NHL player at some point first before we go there.

If we are drafting high enough to get impact players semi relably the next 3-4 years that means we are not in the playoffs.


Not worth responding to.. Make an actual case for your point of view.

well I can see your problem, too caught up in your own point of view to "bother responding". I get it that you're crushingly disappointed that the team didn't go in the direction you seem to so desperately cling to, dumping salary and amassing draft picks and prospects. Maybe go cheer for the Coyotes?

your assertion that Lekkermaki isn't ready to replace Boeser or garland .. no kidding. You're making assinine assertions just to buttress your point of view / opinion. I feel sorry for you, its too bad that you can't see the changes for the good that have been happening, only to wallow in a negative mindset the cap space and prospects are preferable to an enjoyable team game that is fun to watch. Lots of ways to get to the promised land - and you don't have the only answer no matter what your number crunching capology arm chair GM'ing will ever provide.

 

[andora]

No kidding.

I guess people aren't aware of the exceptionally great track record of trying to build a contender through free agency ... 60% of the time, it works every time. Especially effective when you have a bottom-of-the-barrel farm system and not a lot of impact players on ELCs.

i would be happy if the bulk of our ufa signings this year were 25 or under and with ncaa or european experience

 

[racerjoe]

BS imo. The plan has always been to re-sign Miller and to make the playoffs. The rumours of the Canucks not allowing other teams to speak to Millers agent about extension proves that. I don’t really think they were serious when they were shopping him. But hey, I could be wrong.

If you are right or wrong, I think the rumor's are wrong and based on nothing. Not a single insider has had anything correct about this team since JR took over. I don't think trades were close enough where it even got to teams asking to talk to JT. I don't think the NYI trade had anything to do with JT. From what I have heard in the rumours is it was a Myers trade that Myers blocked. That seems to fit way better than trying to imagine what NYI would give up for JT.

 

[racerjoe]

well I can see your problem, too caught up in your own point of view to "bother responding". I get it that you're crushingly disappointed that the team didn't go in the direction you seem to so desperately cling to, dumping salary and amassing draft picks and prospects. Maybe go cheer for the Coyotes?

your assertion that Lekkermaki isn't ready to replace Boeser or garland .. no kidding. You're making assinine assertions just to buttress your point of view / opinion. I feel sorry for you, its too bad that you can't see the changes for the good that have been happening, only to wallow in a negative mindset the cap space and prospects are preferable to an enjoyable team game that is fun to watch. Lots of ways to get to the promised land - and you don't have the only answer no matter what your number crunching capology arm chair GM'ing will ever provide.

Dude, you haven't made a single point yet, just an opinion, then some snide remarks. The point is try to back up what you are saying then people can respond. It is pretty well publicized our prospect pool is currently bottom 5 in the NHL. If you disagree please give us something to discuss.

 

[StreetHawk]

If you are right or wrong, I think the rumor's are wrong and based on nothing. Not a single insider has had anything correct about this team since JR took over. I don't think trades were close enough where it even got to teams asking to talk to JT. I don't think the NYI trade had anything to do with JT. From what I have heard in the rumours is it was a Myers trade that Myers blocked. That seems to fit way better than trying to imagine what NYI would give up for JT.

I don’t see how Myers would fit in NYI behind Pulloch and Dobson and then Mayfield on the right side.
I doubt any rumours about what the isles and Canucks discussed is actually true given how tight lipped Lou and JR keep things.

 

[Hit the post]

Dude, you haven't made a single point yet, just an opinion, then some snide remarks. The point is try to back up what you are saying then people can respond. It is pretty well publicized our prospect pool is currently bottom 5 in the NHL. If you disagree please give us something to discuss.

Mainly because our prospect player development for lack of a better word has stunk. Will it get better under this new regime? Way too early to know obviously. One positive is that it can't get worse than under the Benning 7 year circus.

 

[racerjoe]

I don’t see how Myers would fit in NYI behind Pulloch and Dobson and then Mayfield on the right side.
I doubt any rumours about what the isles and Canucks discussed is actually true given how tight lipped Lou and JR keep things.

They went out and got a better RS defender when this fell through.

 

[quat]

With the way myers gets talked about around here he would be replaced with a 1 million dollar ufa..

How much is Luke Schenn making again?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Schenn was signed on to be a #6-7 D man last season..The fact that he clicked with Hughes again was a fantastic surprise...The exception more than the rule.

Lets not pretend that you're always going to find a top 4 RHD for 850k....

 

[RandV]

No kidding.

I guess people aren't aware of the exceptionally great track record of trying to build a contender through free agency ... 60% of the time, it works every time. Especially effective when you have a bottom-of-the-barrel farm system and not a lot of impact players on ELCs.

Now it's one thing if you're a contender with a Cale Makar on an ELC, but while the Canucks have an issue following up with these guys I'd say Podzolzin, Kuzmenko, Hoglander, and Rathbone track pretty well for ELC players on competitive teams. Well I guess Rathbone isn't ELC anymore, but still costs the same.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

The plan/direction has always been obvious, and it's odd that so many thought otherwise.

Take a young core, with 2, potentially 3 elite pieces, nearing peak ages
give them the best support available via younger vet signings and/or trades
Sign/promote ELC's from within or abroad
Evaluate the season as it goes, with previous, and future picks at the ready.

Real basic textbook stuff. It just so happened to be that the best and most available players were already Canucks.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

On a side note here..Its hard to fault AGM Castongauy on any of her work so far.

 

[StreetHawk]

Now it's one thing if you're a contender with a Cale Makar on an ELC, but while the Canucks have an issue following up with these guys I'd say Podzolzin, Kuzmenko, Hoglander, and Rathbone track pretty well for ELC players on competitive teams. Well I guess Rathbone isn't ELC anymore, but still costs the same.

Makar wasn’t on his elc when they won the cup last season. He like Hughes burned a year when he came from the ncaa and joined the Avs.

Been a dozen years since both Chicago and Pitt Won with key contributors on elc in Toews and Kane in their final elc year and Pitt with Malkin in his final year. But chicago had the likes of Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Ladd, Buff etc on board when those 2 arrived. Plus they had lottery luck with Kane because if they didn’t I don’t think they are winning if you swap Gagner in for Kane. (That point that the Oilers gained in that Stefan empty net gaff). Same 71 points as the Hawks but more wins thus slotted a pick later. Don’t get that point and have more wins than Washington and thus they hold pick 5.

To win you need the majority of your players to play up to their cap hits and for those who don’t like the Avs with EJ and Compher you need others to play over and above their cap hits to make up the difference.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

it doesn't happen in a vacuum. Tampa has had many years of continuity to build their team from Yezrman through to Brisbois. we had whole sale cleaning of house 10 months ago, maybe give it some time?

I agree and have been stressing patience in other posts on here. But I do think that a lot of what is being said by management is at odds with each other.

again with the "Cap space"... truth of it is they do have a plan, look at all the changes in player development its gonna take some time. maybe with better systems play the defense will improve significantly. there are a lot of pieces at play.

Refer back to your original comment. “It doesn’t happen in a vacuum.” A good organization focuses on every available asset and utilizes it the best it can. It’s one of many pieces and eschewing it because it’s “nerd” stuff is silly.

bottom line for me is i'm not going to worry about things I can't control.

So maybe refrain from poking your head in here and whining about people discussing things all while looking down on them? Seems in line with your philosophy, no?

I'll cheer for the team and hope for the best, it is a game after all. i think some people take this sht wayyy too seriously. I do see a plan, just because it doesn't fit your wants or needs doesn't negate that.

Maybe you could elaborate on what this plan is instead of vaguely alluding to it while taking some not-so-obvious potshots at folks?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I know what you're saying but just wanted to comment for the talk about this still being 'Benning's team' have people forgotten that it was previously Benning and Green's team? Obviously in the 2021-22 season the Canucks under green were 8-15-2, then under Boudreau finished 32-15-10. That's roughly a 60 point season vs a 105 point season. That isn't necessarily going to translate to 1:1 to a new season but there's plenty of reason to assume that the team as is could be better than like a 90 point team or whatever.

The scary thing is if Benning did the obvious thing and replaced Green last year with a competent established coach (rather than just Trent Cull) he may still have a job. But because it was just Benning's nature to always do the dumbest thing possible here we are today with a new management group.

I’m with you, but I’m of the mindset that the team is somewhere between the turd it was under Green and the world beaters they were under Bruce.

I think they’re simply a meh team as is. Maybe the new forward additions will do some real damage, but I do think the d line is the biggest issue with this team and nothing was really done to address it.

Coaching can help, but if someone is prone to brain farts or is experiencing the effects of losing a step, coaching can only do so much.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Schenn was signed on to be a #6-7 D man last season..The fact that he clicked with Hughes again was a fantastic surprise...The exception more than the rule.

Lets not pretend that you're always going to find a top 4 RHD for 850k....

Let’s also not pretend that we found a top 4 RHD for 850k.

 

[Vector]

Schenn wasn’t even played like a top-4 by Boudreau. He rarely finished games; trying to score or protect leads. He was fantastic value for many reasons but his lack of footspeed and first pass ability exposed him in tight games. He’s best suited as a Rathbone/Dermott mentor and PKer with occasional shifts higher in the lineup when injuries hit.

 

[andora]

I say try hughes and myers and then oel and schenn

 

[4Twenty]

I say try hughes and myers and then oel and schenn

Myers and Hughes have played together a lot. It’s not a strong defensive pair.

It is literally the 2nd most used combination of Canucks defensman over the past 3 seasons.

Often looking for offence down a goal or two chasing the game.

It’s like people forget every thing before Bruce there it is.

 

[andora]

Myers and Hughes have played together a lot. It’s not a strong defensive pair.

It is literally the 2nd most used combination of Canucks defensman over the past 3 seasons.

Often looking for offence down a goal or two chasing the game.

It’s like people forget every thing before Bruce there it is.

Last season i didnt think it was too often.. 10 15 games worth of ice time?

I remember a couple years ago they were quitr a bit

 

[Peen]

Last season i didnt think it was too often.. 10 15 games worth of ice time?

I remember a couple years ago they were quitr a bit

That cannot ever be a pairing unless you are desperately chasing a goal late in the game.