Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[Petey But Really Jim]

Ok so. are people blaming the new management or the ownership
Yes the Boeser and Miller contracts both look terrible rn, but part of me think that it doesnt matter who are in charged, as long as the owner remains the same, Boeser and Miller were never going to be traded
It is a tunnel without an end

Aquilini is our greatest rival.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Ok so. are people blaming the new management or the ownership
Yes the Boeser and Miller contracts both look terrible rn, but part of me think that it doesnt matter who are in charged, as long as the owner remains the same, Boeser and Miller were never going to be traded
It is a tunnel without an end

I mean when Rutherford first came here, we were hearing from everywhere that he came here on the condition of having full autonomy - no interference from ownership. While there were some money clearing moves, he had the green light to move Miller + Boeser at last year's deadline but did not. Piecing 2 and 2 here would suggest that he chose to extend these players on his own accord, but I guess we'll never truly know.

 

[F A N]

You can dig through my post history, as I’m pretty sure I quoted it verbatim, but he said that he “wasn’t sure what happened” the last 2 years, but if he were playing out East he’d be a Norris trophy candidate. Not like 5-6 years ago, but as of now. It was clear from what he was saying in the interview that he thought he landed a big fish.

I might go digging myself tomorrow. I’m pretty sure it was the initial trade thread. Wish I archived shit like Wetcoaster used to, haha.

If you can dig up the post it would be appreciated. Regardless, there's a difference between "thinking he landed a big fish" and "thinking he landed a Dman who would have been contending for the Norris the past 2 years if he was playing out east."

Like I said, what he did think was that he was getting a #1 matchup Dman. Obviously Hughes is our #1 Dman but OEL certainly played the part of matchup Dman and fared pretty well last season. Even Myers was arguably worth his salary last season alongside OEL.

 

[Svencouver]

It's weird though.

Everything they said in every interview seemed to indicate that their evaluation was on point. And Jim Rutherford is not someone who has had a reputation for being afraid to make moves, far from it.

So what the hell happened?

With Benning, it was quite clear that he was just incompetent. He would walk up to the mic, say "I am about to do something very stupid," then he would do something very stupid.

With this group, I don't know what's going on.

I don't understand how months of interviews downplaying the success of the team last year, not wanting to give Boudreau an extension, not buying into the hype, saying that the defense is bad and they rely on the goalie too much etc. etc. and then just ... no action.

Like you said, you'd have to believe that Aquilini wouldn't have just shut them down at this early juncture. And yet...? I don't know. I really don't get it.

It's been a weird year so far in general. Theres a lot that I think goes into the current position of affairs:

1. Poor market in the offseason
Pretty obvious. While plenty of us would, currently, happily take Lundkvist and a 1st for Miller with how he's been playing with his shiny new retirement contract; that's totally a hindsight evaluation. If he went on to play brilliantly for NYR with the hot start they're having (keep in mind his attitude would be faring way better there than it is here at the moment), management would have been flayed alive for that decision. This is just what happens in a cap league tight on money with a previous GM that capped the team out in the first place. It was, genuinely, a difficult decision, in part due to the temperament of Miller, which goes into point #2...

2. The psychology of the team
The team got off to a bad start. It happens. But they are just a mentally destroyed group. It's really bad, and it's obvious to anyone watching. If they had just straight up lost those first 2 games, instead of blowing the 3rd period leads, I don't think we'd be here. They are shattered and you can tell.

This is the consequence of sucking. Keep that in mind. The team has no real confidence, poor culture, and a loser mentality. They constantly beat themselves, have poor effort levels out of habit from hopeless seasons of crap hockey, and just do not have the necessary discipline to win games instilled and internalized like Carolina or Pittsburgh does.

I think Miller is part of the problem; I dont like the guy and his attitude and when things go poorly, I can imagine he's a f***ing awful guy to have in the locker room. Hence the on-ice arguments and the early players only meeting. It's just bad. They're going to dig themselves out of this hole, and it's going to be rough. The team investing in some sports psychologists would be a f***ing dream come true, and it's savvy housekeeping choices like that which make me miss Gillis more than anything else.

3. Injuries/The Defense
I mean, yeah. It's an excuse. And management should have done better to address this weakness. But regardless of whether or not the excuse is valid, the injuries to both important defensive forwards (Mikhayev) and thinning out our already paltry defensive group (Myers, Hughes, Dermott, Stillman, Poolman) leave things worse than they already are for a Demko who's having a slow start to the season. It's pretty bad luck, and that's all there is to it.

That being said, the defense has actually not been our main problem, I feel, as others have also pointed out. We've gotten either average or above average play from most of the group, and Burroughs has really stepped up. It's been the forward group who's really fighting it. So, just a mess, really.

I also haven't mentioned it yet, but our special teams coaching is absolutely unacceptable and I cannot believe it hasn't been addressed. Why are these people still employed? It makes our course of action pretty obvious, I think:

-Fire Jason King. Please. Wtf is this dude still doing here. The PP looks f***ing awful. The PK is obviously horrendous but I don't know who to even blame for it, lmao. It's just depressing to see games decided by how incompetent we are when we're not 5v5.
-Dont make too many changes to the group until the deadline. If players like Boeser and Horvat just can't get back to an acceptable level, get rid of them, and any other wingers that don't fit in.
-Make some further investments into cleaning up the locker room's psychology. It does seem that the team has... some staff? For therapy and psychological consultation, but idk how you can look at stuff like these third period meltdowns, on-ice confrontations, or even Petey's apathy from last year and think that whatever is going on is either sufficient or effective. Figure it out.

If the team sucks this year, they suck. Whatever. I've only been on this website for voidgazing years, and I can gaze into it again. Best case scenario it's one of those inexplicable speedbump years where everything goes wrong and they bounce back next year.

Either way, making dumb panic moves with player value at its lowest doesn't improve our situation at all. Either these players continue to play poorly, keep us low in the standings for a good prospect in the draft, and give us certainty that we should move on from them; or they recover their play, and we can either keep them or move them for better return. This is just a challenge that this core has to overcome. They are better than this record. If they're not, we'll know what to do with them.

 

[quat]

What makes things so much worse is watching the Canucks getting lapped by teams like the Stars, the Blues, the Sens , the Rangers, LA, and most likely the Hawks.

Maybe they luck out this year with a high pick and somehow figure out what's wrong with this group. Watching all these overpriced players fall off a cliff is so disheartening and knowing there's no players coming to change things up.

The Benning legacy

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Why did they decide to extend Miller when they did..?

I understand the reasoning, risk of losing him for nothing.

But the timing is really weird.

 

[ECBBW]

All the biggest and most marketable sports franchises in North America have won. What are you talking about? I can’t believe some of the pure smoke I read on this site! I guess there’s big money in being the 60 year punching bag of the nhl

The Leafs are the most valuable franchise in the NHL. When did they last win again?

The most valuable sports team in the world is, I believe, the Dallas Cowboys. They haven’t won the Super Bowl in over 25 years.

 

[andora]

It's weird though.

Everything they said in every interview seemed to indicate that their evaluation was on point. And Jim Rutherford is not someone who has had a reputation for being afraid to make moves, far from it.

So what the hell happened?

With Benning, it was quite clear that he was just incompetent. He would walk up to the mic, say "I am about to do something very stupid," then he would do something very stupid.

With this group, I don't know what's going on.

I don't understand how months of interviews downplaying the success of the team last year, not wanting to give Boudreau an extension, not buying into the hype, saying that the defense is bad and they rely on the goalie too much etc. etc. and then just ... no action.

Like you said, you'd have to believe that Aquilini wouldn't have just shut them down at this early juncture. And yet...? I don't know. I really don't get it.

They may just have waited until the players backed them up and the fans could see it instead of trusting their word

Could just be the olitical game amongst the market and now they could gain real support in any moves they make no matter how small the gains

 

[4Twenty]

It's weird though.

Everything they said in every interview seemed to indicate that their evaluation was on point. And Jim Rutherford is not someone who has had a reputation for being afraid to make moves, far from it.

So what the hell happened?

With Benning, it was quite clear that he was just incompetent. He would walk up to the mic, say "I am about to do something very stupid," then he would do something very stupid.

With this group, I don't know what's going on.

I don't understand how months of interviews downplaying the success of the team last year, not wanting to give Boudreau an extension, not buying into the hype, saying that the defense is bad and they rely on the goalie too much etc. etc. and then just ... no action.

Like you said, you'd have to believe that Aquilini wouldn't have just shut them down at this early juncture. And yet...? I don't know. I really don't get it.

Dance Mix 93’ track 11 on repeat is my guess.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It's weird though.

Everything they said in every interview seemed to indicate that their evaluation was on point. And Jim Rutherford is not someone who has had a reputation for being afraid to make moves, far from it.

So what the hell happened?

With Benning, it was quite clear that he was just incompetent. He would walk up to the mic, say "I am about to do something very stupid," then he would do something very stupid.

With this group, I don't know what's going on.

I don't understand how months of interviews downplaying the success of the team last year, not wanting to give Boudreau an extension, not buying into the hype, saying that the defense is bad and they rely on the goalie too much etc. etc. and then just ... no action.

Like you said, you'd have to believe that Aquilini wouldn't have just shut them down at this early juncture. And yet...? I don't know. I really don't get it.

Im completely with you here.

It sounded like they actually knew where the team is at, and I kept waiting for them to actually move that direction. Hamonic trade and Kuzmenko signing were really the only two moves that make sense with what they are right now.

 

[canucksfan]

Im completely with you here.

It sounded like they actually knew where the team is at, and I kept waiting for them to actually move that direction. Hamonic trade and Kuzmenko signing were really the only two moves that make sense with what they are right now.

They admitted the defense wasn't good enough but never acquired a d man. I wonder if they tried and couldn't so they doubled down on forwards(wingers) for some reason. Now they are stuck.

 

[TruGr1t]

This is the problem right here. This team will probably go on a run at some point this season, it's just not statistically likely this all doesn't over-correct to the upside at some point. Then people will come out of the woodwork and say "see, I told you this team is really close to being a playoff team and it would be criminal to break this core up at this stage because that's just loser fan mentality."

Obviously, management also got stuck in this trap pre-deadline last year. It happens with this group every year. It allowed Benning to screw around for an inordinate amount of time because the team would go on these stupid runs that didn't mean anything because they are so bad they're usually out of the playoffs by November.

People fail to realize this inconsistency is a symptom of the disease. Giving up on coaches is a symptom of the disease. Lack of accountability, symptom of the disease.

This will not change until the roster is changed. Coaching means little at this point when it comes to this group. They'll likely get a bump due to a coaching change again, but we'll find ourselves right back here in short order having these same conversations because this is the teams identity.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This is the problem right here. This team will probably go on a run at some point this season, it's just not statistically likely this all doesn't over-correct to the upside at some point. Then people will come out of the woodwork and say "see, I told you this team is really close to being a playoff team and it would be criminal to break this core up at this stage because that's just loser fan mentality."

Obviously, management also got stuck in this trap pre-deadline last year. It happens with this group every year. It allowed Benning to screw around for an inordinate amount of time because the team would go on these stupid runs that didn't mean anything because they are so bad they're usually out of the playoffs by November.

People fail to realize this inconsistency is a symptom of the disease. Giving up on coaches is a symptom of the disease. Lack of accountability, symptom of the disease.

This will not change until the roster is changed. Coaching means little at this point when it comes to this group. They'll likely get a bump due to a coaching change again, but we'll find ourselves right back here in short order having these same conversations because this is the teams identity.

And if they fell for it last year, it will be even more enticing this year, because now the team is more their doing then it was last season. So they can say "see, we didn't mess up, this is what we thought the team ACTUALLY is."

 

[Jyrki21]

My theory with the Rachel Doerrie thing is the following. I have no proof so no stupid replies. I am 100% speculating. This was my guess when she departed and all of her twitter liking activity since then gives me this belief.

That whole role change thing happened right after the Miller contract came out. My guess is she didn’t agree with that and voiced it (rightfully or wrongfully due to her position is up to you). Who knows if it was Rutherford, Allvin, FAQ who primarily drove the boat on that one - either way, my assumption is they felt she overstepped and changed her role to be on the coaching side. Keep in mind she was in scouting meetings in July around the draft on the Canucks youtube channel so this was definitely sudden.

I could absolutely see something like this having happened... a lot of parallels to Gilman with Dorsett/Sbisa.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

explanation s’il te plaît

Just pretty much always looking for an excuse to post the Loui p***y bandana photo