Post-Game Talk: Make it 8-2-2: Canucks 2, Wild 1

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Zombotron, Feb 12, 2013.

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  1. AmazingNuck

    AmazingNuck Registered User

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    First off, PP specialist =/= sheltered. We shelter the Sedins as much as we sheltered Ehrhoff. I never remember him being sifted down to the bottom pairing as you claim. In the playoffs, the entire team was exposed and Ehrhoff had a torn shoulder for which he had to have surgery.

    I don't think you understand the definition of PP specialist. A PP specialist is a defenseman who plays only the powerplay and sheltered even strength minutes for the purpose of resting other defensemen. Ehrhoff played the powerplay, but he was also a penalty killer and played ES minutes extensively. There's a difference between being sheltered and matching up, and with a coach that's notorious for matching up, his QoC is naturally low. Why? Because it makes no sense to play a player like Ehrhoff against players like Thornton or Toews. We have defined ROLES to do that. Ehrhoff's was to score and play adequate defense, which he excelled at.

    Ehrhoff's as much a PP specialist as Daniel and Henrik. In fact, without Ehrhoff, Edler's being "exposed defensively" by your logic. Edler has not been the same defenseman without Ehrhoff, nor have the Sedins been the same forwards without Ehrhoff.
     
  2. Fa Ci La

    Fa Ci La Registered User

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    seems to me it's far more likely they've given Manny a couple of days off to give Ebbett another game to show why he should be up here, given waiving Ebbett makes about a billion times more sense than Manny.
     
  3. Free Edler

    Free Edler Enjoy retirement, boys.

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    Vuvuzelas are crossing a line. Cheering/noise from fans is awesome, but those ******* things shouldn't be welcome in an NHL arena.
     
  4. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    I'm sure Daniel wasn't amused by that hit. Nor Henrik being hassled by Suter after a couple of whistles. The Canucks are not known for handling these situations to any conclusion. Instead, we have the chippy play against the twins, and others, continue well into the late 3rd period.


    Nobody is being kept honest here. It's been this way for a while, and the Canucks have taken _active_ steps to correct it. Except the execution to correct these things hasn't been there. They have to take that last step.


    Fans want to see these situations get resolved before they impact the rest of the game. That isn't for amusement, but to better protect this team's top players, which have been left unprotected for too long already.
     
  5. Bgav

    Bgav We Stylin'

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    time to celebrate the win

     
  6. AmazingNuck

    AmazingNuck Registered User

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    The only fallacy that I see here is you making a straw man argument. You seem to not understand what I'm saying.

    1. Edler is replacing Ehrhoff's role as the primary offensive producer of the top pairing. This is undeniable.

    2. Garrison is replacing Edler's role as the primary defensive anchor of the top pairing. This too is undeniable.

    3. Edler moves up the offensive pecking order to where Ehrhoff was, and Garrison moves up the defensive pecking order to where Edler was.

    This is all I have said. You have interpreted my stance as saying that Garrison replaces Edler's offensive side and defensive side, which, upon clarification of my original statement, should have been understood as incorrect. But you insist that I've said that Garrison replaces Edler's offensive role in addition to his defensive role, which I did not.

    I don't blame Edler for the offense taking a hit, nor do I blame Garrison for the offense taking a hit. What I blame is the lack of Ehrhoff. As Edler is Ehrhoff's replacement as the primary offensive threat from the back end, he does not bring what Ehrhoff brought to the table in terms of offensive skill set, despite scoring more points.
     
  7. David71

    David71 Registered User

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    erhoff was good with the sedins. rushes the puck well. smart/pp specialist IMO. when he was here van was scoring off the rush.
    now that he's gone. no one on the nucks really has a accurate hard shot. edler/garrison misses. garrison=disspointment so far. taken off both pp units. maybe his groin? is acting up. and what's the deal with the malhotra situation. he and his family just welcomed a newborn a few days ago. is mgmnt telling him something we dont know?
     
  8. AmazingNuck

    AmazingNuck Registered User

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    The Sedins will always be pushed around. No amount of enforcers, powerplay goals, or powerforward wingers will stop this. Being pushed around is fundamental to the fact that the Sedins are who they are, and that's the same for all players similar to them- thin, skilled, primary offensive threats.

    The Canucks have not found a solution because there is no solution to be found.
     
  9. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    Ehrhoff was considered soft before he even got to VAN. I'm guessing you didn't follow SJ much? And Ehrhoff was shifted down to the bottom pair when the team wanted to roll better ES pairs. He would see time with O'Brien and other #6 Dmen while Edler continued to get hard matched.


    PP specialists usually get sheltered. It's difficult to find a PP anchor that doesn't need to be sheltered at ES, because then you're talking about a big money player.





    I understand the specialist term just fine. I didn't like Ehrhoff on the PK either.


    I also know why his QoC was low, but then I never expected him to be hard matched against the other team's top players, because he would get exposed. The only time it made sense is if the coach wanted to go strength on strength. Roles are great, getting hammered when the QoC ratcheted up doesn't really care about roles though.


    And you're fooling yourself if you think Ehrhoff was as effective as either twin at ES. These guys take a pounding against the best Ds in the league, and they carried Ehrhoff far more than the opposite was true.


    I've also seen Edler try to carry Salo last year, finishing with a much better QoC than he had when paired with Ehrhoff. Yes, roles played a factor in that too. But it's why Edler gets his 5m contract and Ehrhoff is punted out. Gillis and co. saw the same thing with hard competition with regards to Ehrhoff, and didn't want to compensate him.
     
  10. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    Really? Makes you wonder why they went out and grabbed a Kassian then? He is a component to a larger solution. The Canucks aren't done, but they're getting there. They haven't accepted it, like you're suggesting.


    And define "thin", if you would.
     
  11. DL44

    DL44 Status quo

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    Ebbett played a very good/solid game... that's all i'll say..
     
  12. Win One Before I Die

    Win One Before I Die Cautious Optimism

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    Seems like whenever the Canucks stand up for them they come out of the scrum penalized.
     
  13. Chris McKinlay

    Chris McKinlay Registered User

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    Yup. Luckily, we weren't hearing that song much back in those days. :laugh:
     
  14. vector209

    vector209 Registered User

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    Regarding the last paragraph, I think we both agree here.

    It seems like the rest of what you're saying is what's leading to confusion. You're assuming I don't get the point you're trying to get across, when I do: that Ehrhoff's status as the #1 point producer on the back end has been replaced by Edler, who despite putting up similar stats, can't replicate his successful play style. I get that, so don't assume I don't.

    I'm not sure where the rest of this little debate is stemming from, but I'm saying Edler's offense has essentially remained status quo, while Ehrhoff's has yet to be replaced by anyone. Do you agree with that?
     
  15. EpochLink

    EpochLink Canucks and Jets fan

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    Oh yeah! Here's another one.

     
  16. Lonny Bohonos

    Lonny Bohonos Registered User

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    Sedins get pushed around. LOL

    Doesnt seem to bother them not to mention Hank has missed something like a total of 10 games his whole career. For a guy whos whole game is based on holding the puck and working down low and in traffic.
     
  17. Lonny Bohonos

    Lonny Bohonos Registered User

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    Yeah I heard that. On the other hand one of the other callers made comments that would lead one to believe fans from an English premiership team were present. Some guys lit up a smoke, someone took their pants off. :laugh:


    Frankly I miss the Pacific Coliseum. The whole family atmosphere sucks. And Vancouver is full of NIMBYism.
     
  18. Lemmiwinks

    Lemmiwinks Downtrodden Canucks fan

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    There's plenty of these :laugh:

     
  19. Vancouver_2010

    Vancouver_2010 Go Canucks & Oilers

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  20. DL44

    DL44 Status quo

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    heh heh.. its amazing how they take a hit (even after a whistle).. and just skate away like it was a nothing play... meanwhile i'm jumping in my seat going "WTF, WHERE'S THE RESPONSE!"
    Those guys are on a whole other level us regualer fans can not comprehend...
     
  21. freakydave

    freakydave Registered User

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    Out of this entire summary the only thing I disagree with is I thought Ballard belonged in the good section tonight-for how complete a game he played.
     
  22. Lonny Bohonos

    Lonny Bohonos Registered User

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    Well its like MG said about them being like Jean Ratelle.

    Ive been in and out of the Canucks scene as I havent lived in Vancvouer much for the last 10 years but I was there for their first couple and the knock on them was "too small", "too weak", "cant skate", "get pushed around" and every time I came back to Vancouver Id be amazed at how they had developed despite these apparent weakness.

    The style of game they play is probably to toughest in terms of being "sitting duck" targets yet here they are.

    I think they are the Dali Lama swedish cousins.
     
  23. freakydave

    freakydave Registered User

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    Glad to read this---12 games in the team has won 6 in a row & some of the fans are measuring Garrison for the size of the crucifix he'll drag to the rink each game.
    I was reading a Zajac thread where fans outside NJ were ragging on his production & his contract.Only then did I discover NJ was 2nd in the eastern conf.--If Garrison fails to live up to expectations fans have for him but Vancouver is winning --I'm happy guy-
    Give the guy season & then look see what you think.
     
  24. Ronning On Empty

    Ronning On Empty Formerly BleachClean

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    Anyone see AV get upset at Henrik getting the abuse he did from the MIN players? I think that he just affirms the opinion of the people that felt the Wild went a bit to far in their treatment of the twins. He confirms it. So people aren't off in their awareness of that fact.
     
  25. Reverend Mayhem

    Reverend Mayhem Fire this man

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    Then when that guy hit Daniel behind at the whistle the only penalty was to Lapierre? Yeah I recall that.
     
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