Make Giroux Our Captain

[Good in Osgoode]

Lock her up sir

That's got to be a first. The OP calls for a lock up on his/her own post.

It is interesting because I know there have been times when Brady has looked and spoken like the perfect player to be Captain of this team. The team definitely went through adversity this year and there have been times when that has not been the case with Brady calling out the fans and sticking up for DJ (which I didn't really mind) as ultimately, he was trying to stick up for his team.

Like others have mentioned on this thread, I have heard the speculation about the partying that goes on with this team on the road and you can't help but wonder if there is a connection there, especially this year when they have had such a brutal road record.

Going to be an interesting off-season this year and I do think that they will be trying to move one of the 'core' pieces to shake up this team and maybe send a message to the rest. A month ago, I would have identified (as of many others) Chabot and/or Norris as the players on their way out but with their injury history, that is going to be very difficult.

I really don't like the idea of trading anyone of Stutzle, Sanderson, Pinto, Batherson or Tkachuk but again, it does like a shake-up is inevitable and if they were to get an offer that blew them away, maybe Brady gets moved before his NTC kicks in.

 

[bicboi64]

No, not because Giroux doesn't deserve it or because Tkachuk is a better leader, but because Tkachuk isn't professional enough like Marleau, Thornton, Wheeler, to handle the C being stripped. He'd demand a trade and if that happens, I don't want to have Staios doing any deals from a position of weakness.

Just try to find vet leaders that can help Tkachuk out as long as he's here and try building a winner.

 

[Sting]

I'm going to agree that giving Brady the captaincy, especially that early in his career, was a bad decision. It was pretty clear the decision stemmed from the scout in Dorion (who often views players with rose tinted glasses) and Brady's buddy DJ Smith.

Giroux is absolutely the leader of this team. It would have been better to hand off the captaincy once he is retired after next season.

At this point, Brady is the captain until he gets moved or signs elsewhere in FA.

 

[Micklebot]

No, not because Giroux doesn't deserve it or because Tkachuk is a better leader, but because Tkachuk isn't professional enough like Marleau, Thornton, Wheeler, to handle the C being stripped. He'd demand a trade and if that happens, I don't want to have Staios doing any deals from a position of weakness.

Just try to find vet leaders that can help Tkachuk out as long as he's here and try building a winner.

So, Wheeler was stripped because he'd been working to get traded, and Thornton did not take the loss of captaincy well, telling the GM to shut his mouth and stop lying about it.

Marleau situation is different, he never wanted to be anywhere but SJ,

Stripping Tkachuk of the captaincy when the primary issue with this team is so very clearly the GM's failure to find a legit starting goalie or build a balanced d Corps would be a transparent attempt in scapegoating,

It's very clear who failed who in the relationship between the sens and their captain, that's not to say Tkachuk has been perfect, he's among the youngest captains and it's a learning process,

 

[bicboi64]

So, Wheeler was stripped because he'd been working to get traded, and Thornton did not take the loss of captaincy well, telling the GM to shut his mouth and stop lying about it.

Marleau situation is different, he never wanted to be anywhere but SJ,

Stripping Tkachuk of the captaincy when the primary issue with this team is so very clearly the GM's failure to find a legit starting goalie or build a balanced d Corps would be a transparent attempt in scapegoating,

It's very clear who failed who in the relationship between the sens and their captain, that's not to say Tkachuk has been perfect, he's among the youngest captains and it's a learning process,

Thornton was the only one there who wasn't as professional as the others, even then, he didn't demand a trade out of town. He still played multiple seasons in SJ.

Wheeler may have asked for a trade, but he didn't sit out or anything. Still showed up and played. "Even as a 36-year-old, I had some growing up to do," he told Sportsnet's Christine Simpson. "You can grow and you can be better. I can lead better and in different ways and more effectively. I don't know if I would have identified that had that not happened. There was a lot of growing up that came from that moment." Wheeler at peace with losing Jets' captaincy: 'Had some growing up to do' The way Wheeler handled that whole situation was professional. I'm not sure our captain would handle having the C removed that well. Would be a pleasant surprise imo.

And just so we're clear, I'm not saying Tkachuk being captain is why we're in our position. I don't think he's a good leader, but I think our roster composition (for the reasons you mentioned and more) is why we're here and would like our GM to address those.

 

[Xspyrit]

Based on his game yesterday, no way you give Giroux the C (even if that was possible) but hopefully it was just one game and he'll look at the tape and see how bad he looked.

 

[Micklebot]

Thornton was the only one there who wasn't as professional as the others, even then, he didn't demand a trade out of town. He still played multiple seasons in SJ.

Wheeler may have asked for a trade, but he didn't sit out or anything. Still showed up and played. "Even as a 36-year-old, I had some growing up to do," he told Sportsnet's Christine Simpson. "You can grow and you can be better. I can lead better and in different ways and more effectively. I don't know if I would have identified that had that not happened. There was a lot of growing up that came from that moment." Wheeler at peace with losing Jets' captaincy: 'Had some growing up to do' The way Wheeler handled that whole situation was professional. I'm not sure our captain would handle having the C removed that well. Would be a pleasant surprise imo.

And just so we're clear, I'm not saying Tkachuk being captain is why we're in our position. I don't think he's a good leader, but I think our roster composition (for the reasons you mentioned and more) is why we're here and would like our GM to address those.

You're running under the assumption that Tkachuk would sit out? That's totally reasonable and not scapegoating at all... Wheeler wanted out so he was stripped, of course he isn't going to throw a fit about being stripped. That's not an example of a guy being more mature and accepting it, it's a guy that forced the teams hand by making it known he wants out.

The problem is you've opted to assume Tkachuk is petty, I'm not sure why that is, but I do feel it's pretty unfair.

It's funny, Bobby Ryan on coming in hot today called the fans complaints about Tkachuk slander today, I think he's right about that, the guy goes out there hits fights scores and people still shit in him for things they think he might do now...

 

[bicboi64]

You're running under the assumption that Tkachuk would sit out? That's totally reasonable and not scapegoating at all... Wheeler wanted out so he was stripped, of course he isn't going to throw a fit about being stripped. That's not an example of a guy being more mature and accepting it, it's a guy that forced the teams hand by making it known he wants out.

The problem is you've opted to assume Tkachuk is petty, I'm not sure why that is, but I do feel it's pretty unfair.

It's funny, Bobby Ryan on coming in hot today called the fans complaints about Tkachuk slander today, I think he's right about that, the guy goes out there hits fights scores and people still shit in him for things they think he might do now...

How did Wheeler force the teams' hand? He said he was open to being traded, but still played a whole season after making his request. It's the same thing as what Rick Nash did for CBJ, said he's down to be traded but will play to the best of his ability if they keep him.

Scapegoating would be me saying his leadership is why we're losing and he should be moved. I don't feel that way, and would like management to do some other things first (send Korpisalo to the moon, move one of Chabot/Chych, hire vet coach, etc.,). I'm open to Tkachuk being moved, but not siloing him as the cause of our troubles.

I feel you're conflating me not thinking he was the right choice for the C for me wanting him out of town. That's not the case and not sure how much more clear I can be. I think he'd want out if the C is taken because he's young and so far, by my own completely intangible standards, doesn't seem mature enough to handle something like that. The same way his brother randomly decided he wanted out of CGY. The Tkachuk's just seem like me first guys. Doesn't mean I want our captain gone.

 

[Micklebot]

How did Wheeler force the teams' hand? He said he was open to being traded, but still played a whole season after making his request. It's the same thing as what Rick Nash did for CBJ, said he's down to be traded but will play to the best of his ability if they keep him.

Scapegoating would be me saying his leadership is why we're losing and he should be moved. I don't feel that way, and would like management to do some other things first (send Korpisalo to the moon, move one of Chabot/Chych, hire vet coach, etc.,). I'm open to Tkachuk being moved, but not siloing him as the cause of our troubles.

I feel you're conflating me not thinking he was the right choice for the C for me wanting him out of town. That's not the case and not sure how much more clear I can be. I think he'd want out if the C is taken because he's young and so far, by my own completely intangible standards, doesn't seem mature enough to handle something like that. The same way his brother randomly decided he wanted out of CGY. The Tkachuk's just seem like me first guys. Doesn't mean I want our captain gone.

Wheeler wanted out, that's how he forced their hand. The team doesn't want to play out a season with their captain openly wanting out, that's terrible for the room regardless of whether his willing to play out the year to the best of his abilities. It's also not a remotely comparable situation to stripping a young captain in Ottawa, so to use it as an example of how a more mature person would handle Brady getting stripped of the captaincy is borderline character assassination.

I'm not saying you want him out of town, but you are arbitrarily assuming the worst out of him in hypothetical situations. It's funny that you say Brady seems like a me first guy when all he's done is stand up for his teammates, and his coach, he's shown loyalty to this team, he's out there giving it his all every night, but I guess when all else fails, lets criticize something intangible from the outside like his leadership and maturity.

 

[bicboi64]

Wheeler wanted out, that's how he forced their hand. The team doesn't want to play out a season with their captain openly wanting out, that's terrible for the room regardless of whether his willing to play out the year to the best of his abilities. It's also not a remotely comparable situation to stripping a young captain in Ottawa, so to use it as an example of how a more mature person would handle Brady getting stripped of the captaincy is borderline character assassination.

I'm not saying you want him out of town, but you are arbitrarily assuming the worst out of him in hypothetical situations. It's funny that you say Brady seems like a me first guy when all he's done is stand up for his teammates, and his coach, he's shown loyalty to this team, he's out there giving it his all every night, but I guess when all else fails, lets criticize something intangible from the outside like his leadership and maturity.

Wheeler not sitting out is showing professionalism, not forcing your hand. Forcing your hand is sitting out. There've been several captains in NHL history who have expressed a desire to move, would you consider them forcing their hand? Wheeler was a 35-year-old vet who acknowledged he still had room to grow and is more likely to have had the tools on/off the ice to handle a situation like having the C stripped (regardless of his wanting to stay or leave). I don't think our young 24-year-old captain has those same tools, especially considering how loud and emotional he is. His brother randomly wanted out of CGY, I wouldn't be surprised if BTkachuk wanted out of here as well. I don't know what goes on in the minds of players, but I especially don't expect younger guys with a letter to be the most rational.

Your second paragraph is a description of him doesn't hold true. Standing up for his teammates and giving it his all, except against his brother because family first. You're either willing to do whatever it takes 82 games a year or you're not. How do you think a player like DeBrincat feels that a rookie in Sanderson has to answer to MTkachuk giving out a hard hit on him instead of our leader? Standing up for your coach when your coach is dogshit is not a good sign. That emotional outburst is an example of poor leadership. The correct thing to do is say "we haven't been playing to the best of our ability, we're going to make sure we do better". He can like DJ all he wants, keep the outbursts in the locker room and not to reporters.

You don't criticize your fans, especially after you're in the public eye drunkely proclaiming how good we are, it's weaksauce and a sign of immaturity. Sitting out a few games for your contract isn't loyalty to the team. You're attributing praise for things like "he's out there giving it his all every night", and? That's the bare minimum for doing your job, I'd sure as hell hope that Tkachuk, along with every player is giving their all every night.

 

[Micklebot]

Wheeler not sitting out is showing professionalism, not forcing your hand. Forcing your hand is sitting out. There've been several captains in NHL history who have expressed a desire to move, would you consider them forcing their hand? Wheeler was a 35-year-old vet who acknowledged he still had room to grow and is more likely to have had the tools on/off the ice to handle a situation like having the C stripped (regardless of his wanting to stay or leave). I don't think our young 24-year-old captain has those same tools, especially considering how loud and emotional he is. His brother randomly wanted out of CGY, I wouldn't be surprised if BTkachuk wanted out of here as well. I don't know what goes on in the minds of players, but I especially don't expect younger guys with a letter to be the most rational.

You can be professional about something and still be forcing the teams hand. Sitting out would be forcing a trade, saying you want out as a captain is still putting the team in a bad spot, no matter how professional you are about it, or whether you acknowledge you have room to grow.

Matthew is not Brady, not sure why you keep bringing him up,

Your second paragraph is a description of him doesn't hold true. Standing up for his teammates and giving it his all, except against his brother because family first. You're either willing to do whatever it takes 82 games a year or you're not. How do you think a player like DeBrincat feels that a rookie in Sanderson has to answer to MTkachuk giving out a hard hit on him instead of our leader? Standing up for your coach when your coach is dogshit is not a good sign. That emotional outburst is an example of poor leadership. The correct thing to do is say "we haven't been playing to the best of our ability, we're going to make sure we do better". He can like DJ all he wants, keep the outbursts in the locker room and not to reporters.

What a lame complaint, again with the brother. He won't fight him, that doesn't mean he isn't playing hard and giving it his all. I think DBC and Sanderson understand Brady's situation an can recognize he's not giving up on them. Sadly some fans can't. What you see as an emotional outburst the team may very well see as their Captain calling it as it is, and showing loyalty to his team.

You don't criticize your fans, especially after you're in the public eye drunkely proclaiming how good we are, it's weaksauce and a sign of immaturity. Sitting out a few games for your contract isn't loyalty to the team. You're attributing praise for things like "he's out there giving it his all every night", and? That's the bare minimum for doing your job, I'd sure as hell hope that Tkachuk, along with every player is giving their all every night.

Holy crap your list of grievances is super lame, he won't fight his brother, he called out fans for chanting fire DJ (he should listen to them when they yell shoot too, right), and he sat out a game for his contract (something that Alfredsson did, along with Messier, Scott Neidermayer, Ryan O'Reilly, all terrible leaders and unloyal to their teams) Players understand it's a business, and that's seperate from being loyal to your teammates.

Here's the thing, the team was losing under DJ because the goaltending is horrendous. Are there better coaches out there, absolutely, but fans yelling fire DJ where just being childish not recognizing the real issues with the team and finding a scapegoat (something fans are really good at). Not fighting his brother does not mean he isn't standing up for his teammates, it's one player out of 700 where he's asking MacEwen, Kastelic or anyone else to be the one to drop the gloves, and it's not like Matthew is a tough fighter. Contract holdouts are part of the business, if you're sour about that then maybe pro sports isn't for you.

 

[Bileur]

And back in 2021, people here genuinely wanted to make *Chabot* the captain.

Yeah, Chabot, the guy a good chunk of the fanbase has spent the past two years pissing on.

This fanbase would've lost its mind.

lol. I remember those threads.

I was hoping they’d give Borowiecki a retirement contract and give it to him to give Brady a few more years to marinate.

 

[bicboi64]

You can be professional about something and still be forcing the teams hand. Sitting out would be forcing a trade, saying you want out as a captain is still putting the team in a bad spot, no matter how professional you are about it, or whether you acknowledge you have room to grow.

Matthew is not Brady, not sure why you keep bringing him up,



What a lame complaint, again with the brother. He won't fight him, that doesn't mean he isn't playing hard and giving it his all. I think DBC and Sanderson understand Brady's situation an can recognize he's not giving up on them. Sadly some fans can't. What you see as an emotional outburst the team may very well see as their Captain calling it as it is, and showing loyalty to his team.


Holy crap your list of grievances is super lame, he won't fight his brother, he called out fans for chanting fire DJ (he should listen to them when they yell shoot too, right), and he sat out a game for his contract (something that Alfredsson did, along with Messier, Scott Neidermayer, Ryan O'Reilly, all terrible leaders and unloyal to their teams) Players understand it's a business, and that's seperate from being loyal to your teammates.

Here's the thing, the team was losing under DJ because the goaltending is horrendous. Are there better coaches out there, absolutely, but fans yelling fire DJ where just being childish not recognizing the real issues with the team and finding a scapegoat (something fans are really good at). Not fighting his brother does not mean he isn't standing up for his teammates, it's one player out of 700 where he's asking MacEwen, Kastelic or anyone else to be the one to drop the gloves, and it's not like Matthew is a tough fighter. Contract holdouts are part of the business, if you're sour about that then maybe pro sports isn't for you.

I bring up his brother as an example of young players that can change their mind on a whim. My favourite player (Zub or Sandy) on the team can wake up tomorrow and say they don't want to play for the Sens and I won't be surprised. Not because I think everyone's childish, but because players I like and dislike have come and gone and I don't get attached. This is where the Tkachuks come in. MTkachuk was a leader on his team, got up and left. His brother might do that if he gets the C taken because that's drastic, doesn't happen to often, and I don't think a 24 year old is equipped to deal with that rationally.

You don't understand the difference between forcing a team's hand and professionalism. You can uphold the narrative that he fights for them every night in your head all you want. That doesn't make it true. If the Tkachuk family can tolerate MTkachuk playing on the edge, they can tolerate the brothers roughing it up, if BTkachuk can't handle that, he isn't captain material and I would be terrified of playing the Panthers in the playoffs. Not standing up for his teammates against his brother isn't standing up for the teammates. MacEwan or Kastelic might not even be on the roster next year and you expect them to be the guys to step up when our team gets ragdolled?

If you think the fans are lame for calling for DJ to be fired, you're out to lunch about what was wrong with this team if you think our losing under DJ was primarily because goaltending was bad. DJ should've been fired before the season started. Fans calling for him to be fired, whether on this forum, or live, isn't childish, it's an element of pro sports where fans get to express their justified resentment. Fans always shout "shoot, pass, ref you suck, etc.,", they don't always call for a coach to be fired, because it doesn't take an NHIC analyst to know this team was a hot mess under DJ. Every player is allowed to like a coach, but captains shouldn't be whining about them to the media over a fire the coach chant. Showing blind loyalty to mediocrity is a red flag.

You have medicore standards for leadership, have fun with that. I'm defo done with this conversation.

 

[umma gumma]

Maaaaaaybe if Brady was a better leader Korpisalo and Forsberg would be making the key saves. A good leader wouldn't let his goalie's shortcomings deflate the rest of the team. We need a leader who can inspire the crease.

 

[Micklebot]

You don't understand the difference between forcing a team's hand and professionalism. You can uphold the narrative that he fights for them every night in your head all you want. Doesn't make it true. If the Tkachuk family can tolerate MTkachuk playing on the edge, they can tolerate the brothers roughing it up, if BTkachuk can't handle that, he isn't captain material and I would be terrified of playing the Panthers in the playoffs. Not standing up for his teammates against his brother isn't standing up for the teammates. MacEwan or Kastelic might not even be on the roster next year and you expect them to be the guys to step up when our team gets ragdolled?

YYeah, I understand that being professional and forcing a teams hand are not mutually exclusive.

We have other players than Brady and will continue to have other players even if/when MacEwen or Kastelic are gone. The expectation that you seem to have that brady fight every fight is insane.

If you think the fans are lame for calling for DJ to be fired, you're out to lunch about what was wrong with this team if you think our losing under DJ was primarily because goaltending was bad. DJ should've been fired before the season started. Fans calling for him to be fired, whether on this forum, or live, isn't childish, it's an element of pro sports where fans get to express their justified resentment. Fans always shout "shoot, pass, ref you suck, etc.,", they don't always call for a coach to be fired, because it doesn't take an NHIC analyst to know this team was a hot mess under DJ. Every player is allowed to like a coach, but captains shouldn't be whining about them to the media over a fire the coach chant.

You have medicore standards for leadership, have fun with that. I'm defo done with this conversation.

Fans are often dumb and lame, they are all about reacting emotionally instead of rationally. Changing the coach didn't make a significant change in our win record, we weren't a mess because of DJ. I wanted DJ gone before the season started since I think there are better options, but chanting Fire DJ is just being childish, he wasn't why the team was losing this season, the problems ran deeper than that, and were with the roster construction and goaltending. That's all the more obvious now that we've played 40 games without him leading the team. Fans have the right to be childish if they really want to, they paid money to give them that right, doesn't make it any more childish when they boo Gonchar on opening night, complain about players promising their parents not to fight their brother or chant fire DJ. But if you're going to be childish, don't complain if you get called on it.

As for my standards on leadership, I'll stand by them any day, I just don't search for absolutely inane things to try and use to justify criticisms of leadership.

 

[bicboi64]

Maaaaaaybe if Brady was a better leader Korpisalo and Forsberg would be making the key saves. A good leader wouldn't let his goalie's shortcomings deflate the rest of the team. We need a leader who can inspire the crease.

Each of our goalies are 6ft3. Tkachuk is 6ft4. If he was a real leader, he'd lace em up and pull a David Ayres or two.

 

[DueDiligence]

Giroux has basically shut it down the last the last third of the season. Only 3 goals since mid February (29 games) and not giving the effort as early in the year. Not a great example to the younger players.

 

[Micklebot]

Giroux has basically shut it down the last the last third of the season. Only 3 goals since mid February (29 games) and not giving the effort as early in the year. Not a great example to the younger players.

Nice timing to bump this, lol,

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Nice timing to bump this, lol,

this maga thread needs to be locked

 

[aragorn]

Tkachuk proving once again that he is the best player on this team, leads the team in several categories including being very durable & becoming one of the premier protypical power forwards in the NHL.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Tkachuk proving once again that he is the best player on this team, leads the team in several categories including being very durable & becoming one of the premier protypical power forwards in the NHL.

100% - the next alfie

 

[aragorn]

100% - the next alfie

Wasn't it you that created this shit thread?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Wasn't it you that created this shit thread?

Hell no. I am not one of the anti-Brady bunch...

Those are a special breed.

 

[bicboi64]

100% - the next alfie

Our captain is performing well and setting career highs in hits during garbage time and we have posters stating he's the next Alfie?

We've been bad for so long, our standards are so low.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Our captain is performing well and setting career highs in hits during garbage time and we have posters stating he's the next Alfie?

We've been bad for so long, our standards are so low.

if you don't think braeden is the king... you ain't seen hockey before