Makar vs Hughes

[Emell]

I wouldn't call Minnesota a luxury when it comes to offense. They had the 2nd lowest xGA in the league all situations and the lowest 5v5 during the regular season. Dubnyk was terrible this season, but he didn't play and Stalock was ok. Plus, Minnesota had much more to play for than the round robin teams.

You do realize xGA means nothing when it fails to be the predictive metric it sets out to be over an entire season? Trying to blame such a huge discrepancy all on the goalie is... yeah.

Minnesota is a mediocre defensive team at best, currently. Offensively, too. It is fair to say it’s a luxury to play them

 

[M2Beezy]

Very very close I will give the slight edge to Hughes because Homer reasons AINEC

 

[eviohh26]

You do realize xGA means nothing when it fails to be the predictive metric it sets out to be over an entire season? Trying to blame such a huge discrepancy all on the goalie is... yeah.

Minnesota is a mediocre defensive team at best, currently. Offensively, too. It is fair to say it’s a luxury to play them

What about beating up on Arizona ...

 

[Regal]

You do realize xGA means nothing when it fails to be the predictive metric it sets out to be over an entire season? Trying to blame such a huge discrepancy all on the goalie is... yeah.

Minnesota is a mediocre defensive team at best, currently. Offensively, too. It is fair to say it’s a luxury to play them

Are you honestly suggesting that goalie play doesn't have a huge impact on goals against? That's...yeah.

Expected goals actually has fairly high correlation for teams. Minnesota's xGA has consistently been lower than the results for them, so you could argue that they're worse than the numbers suggest, but they were still 9th in total goals against 5v5 over the three years coming into this season. They have a very good top 4, and players like Koivu and Eriksson Ek are quite good defensively. They might not be a top defensive team, but they are certainly not mediocre defensively. Especially if we're comparing it to Makar getting the ghosts of Dallas and St.Louis that showed up for the round robin, which was the whole point. Using them as a point in Makar's favour is very questionable.

 

[Spilot23]

After yesterday's goal this should be Makar. After Nucks next game when Hughes has 2 apples then it will be him. Next Avs game Makar set up an outstanding game winner in OT then it's Makar again. And so on.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Its pretty much impossible to compare round robin stats vs. the qualifier stats, so I don't even care about them.

 

[Emell]

Are you honestly suggesting that goalie play doesn't have a huge impact on goals against? That's...yeah.

Expected goals actually has fairly high correlation for teams. Minnesota's xGA has consistently been lower than the results for them, so you could argue that they're worse than the numbers suggest, but they were still 9th in total goals against 5v5 over the three years coming into this season. They have a very good top 4, and players like Koivu and Eriksson Ek are quite good defensively. They might not be a top defensive team, but they are certainly not mediocre defensively. Especially if we're comparing it to Makar getting the ghosts of Dallas and St.Louis that showed up for the round robin, which was the whole point. Using them as a point in Makar's favour is very questionable.

Their actual goals against was like 24th or something in the league. No, the discrepancy is not something you can explain by claiming a bad goaltender

High correlation is still correlation. Especially relevant distinction in times when they don’t correlate.

They’re definitely mediocre defensively (you might want to learn what that means by the way).

Also lol at trying to compare the RR stuff when everyone was more interested in getting up to speed. The irony being that taking that out only helps Makar’s case in the POs. I’d gladly not include them even if it wasn’t

 

[Emell]

What about beating up on Arizona ...

4th in the league in GA this year vs Minnesota’s 20 something ranking

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I thought Mike Johnson put it pretty good today on the radio. Makar has that explosive speed, power and game breaking ability to individually generate offensive over Hughes. Hughes on the other hand has that ridiculous shaking ability and small space play and can make about 50 different plays and decisions in one single shift that all leads to positive outcomes. They’re very different players and you take your choice of which style your team needs.

 

[BB06]

Hughes’ statistical picture this postseason has been pretty ridiculous thus far: 64% CF, + 30% CFrel, with almost 73% defensive zone starts.

Makar is right there, though: insane 73% CF, + 21% CFrel, with majority defensive zone starts. He’s also independently created more offense and been less reliant on the PP for production, and didn’t get the luxury of playing Minnesota.

You do realize xGA means nothing when it fails to be the predictive metric it sets out to be over an entire season? Trying to blame such a huge discrepancy all on the goalie is... yeah.

Minnesota is a mediocre defensive team at best, currently. Offensively, too. It is fair to say it’s a luxury to play them

Wild were higher in the standing than the coyotes.....

 

[Love]

They’re both awesome and there isn’t a wrong answer at this point

 

[nowhereman]

Hopefully, the second half of the season and these playoffs has discredited the largely uninformed contingent of posters here who felt it was "Makar AINEC".

 

[NYR94]

I haven't watched much of Colorado this postseason yet, but from what I've seen of the Canucks Hughes has been a revelation as an Eastern conference fan. Really exciting, smart player.

 

[Emell]

Wild were higher in the standing than the coyotes.....

They came on really strong near the end of the year and never recaptured that push they had when play resumed.

Not really a situation where you can read much into a difference of 3 points in the standings

 

[BB06]

They came on really strong near the end of the year and never recaptured that push they had when play resumed.

Not really a situation where you can read much into a difference of 3 points in the standings

So if playing the wild is a luxury what about playing the coyotes?

 

[Emell]

So if playing the wild is a luxury what about playing the coyotes?

Tell me. Who do you think would be easier to put up points against.

The team that was 22nd in the league in GAs, it the team that was 4th in the league at goals against?

 

[BB06]

Tell me. Who do you think would be easier to put up points against.

The team that was 22nd in the league in GAs, it the team that was 4th in the league at goals against?

The team that allowed the least slot shots and HDC throughout the league.

 

[Emell]

The team that allowed the least slot shots and HDC throughout the league.

Fun fact. Points come from goals being scored.

So tell me this time...Who do you think would be easier to put up points against.

The team that was 22nd in the league in GAs, or the team that was 4th in the league in goals against?

Unless you want to claim your valued stats are whatever make you feel better about your preferred player. Feel free to admit that if you’re too scared to answer the question

 

[eviohh26]

If you prefer one player over the other that's fine. But to use the term AINEC when comparing these 2 players is plain stupid. Its so close its not funny. Id take either one any day of the week.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Hopefully, the second half of the season and these playoffs has discredited the largely uninformed contingent of posters here who felt it was "Makar AINEC".

Why? Makar has still played better. He's the better player. Maybe no AINEC but he's the superior d-man.

 

[nowhereman]

Why? Makar has still played better. He's the better player. Maybe no AINEC but he's the superior d-man.

What do you mean "why"? Anyone who says "AINEC", in regards to either player, is completely out to lunch. That's my point, regardless of who you think is better.

Since Makar's hot start, he and Hughes have been nearly neck-and-neck statistically, analytically and based on the eye test. I really doubt you can present any argument to the contrary, other than "because I said so".

And Hughes has been better in the post-season; not sure there's much of a debate there. He has been nothing short of dominant, playing close to 30 minutes a night, and looks like he can make plays at will out there. He just doesn't have the supporting cast that Makar does, which is why his series is tied.

 

[avsfan9]

What do you mean "why"? Anyone who says "AINEC", in regards to either player, is completely out to lunch. That's my point, regardless of who you think is better.

Since Makar's hot start, he and Hughes have been nearly neck-and-neck statistically, analytically and based on the eye test. I really doubt you can present any argument to the contrary, other than "because I said so".

And Hughes has been better in the post-season; not sure there's much of a debate there. He has been nothing short of dominant, playing close to 30 minutes a night, and looks like he can make plays at will out there. He just doesn't have the supporting cast that Makar does, which is why his series is tied.

Why is Makars start to the season considered a “ hot start”. He entered the playoffs last year and scored 6 points in his first 10 games which was pretty good. He had a good training camp and started producing right out the gate and kept it up all season. Hughes played last season, had training camp and came out to a “slow” start. Makar had a comfortable lead all season till he got hurt when Hughes started to come on and passed him with 3 more points in 11 less games.

Hughes was better in the play ins not playoffs. Since the playoffs Makar has been the better player and very dominant as well and why does Makar get discredited for playing on a better team, he makes the team better and Hughes gets to play with Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat no slouches

 

[GirardSpinorama]

What do you mean "why"? Anyone who says "AINEC", in regards to either player, is completely out to lunch. That's my point, regardless of who you think is better.

Since Makar's hot start, he and Hughes have been nearly neck-and-neck statistically, analytically and based on the eye test. I really doubt you can present any argument to the contrary, other than "because I said so".

And Hughes has been better in the post-season; not sure there's much of a debate there. He has been nothing short of dominant, playing close to 30 minutes a night, and looks like he can make plays at will out there. He just doesn't have the supporting cast that Makar does, which is why his series is tied.

The playoffs were the last 4 games. Makar has 5 points to Hughes 3.

No I don't care about the play-ins, its not the Avs fault that we got a bye.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

So if playing the wild is a luxury what about playing the coyotes?

Playing the Coyotes is the reward for Avs being really good?

 

[NorCalhockey]

What do you mean "why"? Anyone who says "AINEC", in regards to either player, is completely out to lunch. That's my point, regardless of who you think is better.

Since Makar's hot start, he and Hughes have been nearly neck-and-neck statistically, analytically and based on the eye test. I really doubt you can present any argument to the contrary, other than "because I said so".

And Hughes has been better in the post-season; not sure there's much of a debate there. He has been nothing short of dominant, playing close to 30 minutes a night, and looks like he can make plays at will out there. He just doesn't have the supporting cast that Makar does, which is why his series is tied.

Why is Makars start to the season considered a “ hot start”. He entered the playoffs last year and scored 6 points in his first 10 games which was pretty good. He had a good training camp and started producing right out the gate and kept it up all season. Hughes played last season, had training camp and came out to a “slow” start. Makar had a comfortable lead all season till he got hurt when Hughes started to come on and passed him with 3 more points in 11 less games.

Hughes was better in the play ins not playoffs. Since the playoffs Makar has been the better player and very dominant as well and why does Makar get discredited for playing on a better team, he makes the team better and Hughes gets to play with Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat no slouches

I responded in a similar thread about Young Stud D in the NHL right now...I put it this way, WITHOUT their star D man, would their team still be a decent - or even good team:
Avalanche without Makar: yes
Canucks without Hughes: no

I don't know who will wind up the better D man in the years to come, but I take the overall team around the player into consideration in these type of arguments. [Just to be clear: I'm not faulting Makar for having better players around him than Hughes, I just think that should be looked at.]