Post-Game Talk: Major Leadership, Character, Coaching issues in Calgary

[Lunatik]

It's like people just completely forget his first season. I really do not understand how anyone can crap on a guy who is 23 and constantly leads his team in goals. FFS...

it's easy, those doing is have shit for brains

 

[Anglesmith]

The team quit with 10 games to go?

Based on what?

 

[Baxterman]

Based on what?

Do you think that team playing against Anaheim was giving its best effort?

I am not sure what is more scary the fact that they quit or the possibility that might have been their best the other night.

 

[DFF]

Based on what?

Shut out twice in the last 3 games. Lost to one of the worst teams in the league. Blown out by a team that lost 8 straight.

What excuse do you have? please amuse me again.

 

[Anglesmith]

Do you think that team playing against Anaheim was giving its best effort?

I am not sure what is more scary the fact that they quit or the possibility that might have been their best the other night.

Here's what I know. Quitting means losing your competitive edge. Losing that edge means you're going to lose most puck battles. Losing most puck battles means the other team having the puck more than you, and having more time and space with it.

I don't think it's possible to go up against good teams with good players who enjoy possessing the puck and manage to maintain overwhelming amounts of possession unless you're trying really hard.

Am I saying they were playing well? Analytics junkies would say yes, but a lot of people would definitely disagree, myself included. But possession is the goal that Gulutzan wants them to obtain, and they're consistently achieving that goal.

 

[Anglesmith]

Shut out twice in the last 3 games. Lost to one of the worst teams in the league. Blown out by a team that lost 8 straight.

What excuse do you have? please amuse me again.

There isn't an excuse necessary. They're playing a poor brand of hockey and getting soundly beaten. You're making a fallacious claim that lack of results must by necessity speak to lack of effort. Surely you don't need someone to point it out to you for you to realize that is an incorrect statement.

 

[Baxterman]

Here's what I know. Quitting means losing your competitive edge. Losing that edge means you're going to lose most puck battles. Losing most puck battles means the other team having the puck more than you, and having more time and space with it.

I don't think it's possible to go up against good teams with good players who enjoy possessing the puck and manage to maintain overwhelming amounts of possession unless you're trying really hard.

Am I saying they were playing well? Analytics junkies would say yes, but a lot of people would definitely disagree, myself included. But possession is the goal that Gulutzan wants them to obtain, and they're consistently achieving that goal.

I think Anaheim was more than happy to let Calgary have the puck and do nothing with it. I didn't see any fight in terms of winning tough battles, I didn't see hard skating for lose pucks and I didn't see a lot of hard checks.

I don't think Calgary had the better possession because they were trying hard it seemed more like they weren't threatening so Anaheim could just wait for Calgary to give it away cheaply and be no worse off.

 

[Fig]

Do you think that team playing against Anaheim was giving its best effort?

I am not sure what is more scary the fact that they quit or the possibility that might have been their best the other night.

Or the truth is somewhere in between? They haven't quit, but they're also struggling to stay motivated?

On the fan today, there was an interview of a former player (forget name) and he said that saying they quit is a huge insult to their characters. It's not fair to say they have quit on the coach or on each other, but it's fair to say they've quit believing that they can make up lost ground. Belief is a hell of a thing. That's what that '14 run was all about. The insanity in believing they could come back from all sorts of stacked odds makes a huge difference. But you can't do it if you don't think you can do it. IMO, its the difference between having fun and hoping for the best vs gripping your stick too hard and self fulfilling a prophecy. Similar amount of effort, huge difference end result.

 

[Baxterman]

Or the truth is somewhere in between? They haven't quit, but they're also struggling to stay motivated?

On the fan today, there was an interview of a former player (forget name) and he said that saying they quit is a huge insult to their characters. It's not fair to say they have quit on the coach or on each other, but it's fair to say they've quit believing that they can make up lost ground. Belief is a hell of a thing. That's what that '14 run was all about. The insanity in believing they could come back from all sorts of stacked odds makes a huge difference. But you can't do it if you don't think you can do it. IMO, its the difference between having fun and hoping for the best vs gripping your stick and self fulfilling a prophecy. Similar amount of effort, huge difference end result.

I don't think they completely quit and certainly don't think we can lump everyone in the same group.

I definitely think their effort level was much less than it has been earlier in the season which is pretty understandable. As much as we may want to see them go down fighting to the last minute they have to know they are done.

But overall the give an f meter sure seemed low, especially from our best players. That could be quit, could be tired, could be injured and most likely is a combo of all of them.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Belief is a hell of a thing. That's what that '14 run was all about.

Remember when we got down 0-4 to Ottawa and then scored a goal in the third period and the whole team believed they could tie it up, and we did?

That was more than belief.. it was swagger.The goal scorers in that game were Russelx2, Colborne, and Backlund. They almost knew they would tie it up from the first goal onwards.

 

[viper0220]

This is good analysis by Francis, I think it is pretty spot on.

• Season has become a tire fire
• Smith injury beginning of the end
• not just goaltending
• major character issues
• leadership issues
• coaching issues
• goaltending masking the problems on the team
• Not a shot at Giordano and Hamonic
• Team just disappeared
• Sense of urgency and leadership
• Lack of leadership and buy-in from the young guys
• Young guys just want to get their points but don't hate to lose
• Defensive lapses - guys not playing the game at both ends
• Gaudreau and Monahan not the guys to lead the team, not guys that will do anything and everything to win
• Tkachuk the next leader and captain
• Lack of pure leaders on the team

Plenty of reasons why Flames’ season became a ‘tire fire’ - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Mobiandi]

Francis will say anything to get the clicks.

He's right about Tkachuk though

 

[InfinityIggy]

I’m pretty, pretty sure Gaudreau and Monahan hate losing..

 

[viper0220]

Francis will say anything to get the clicks.

He's right about Tkachuk though

Francis may like clicks but this pretty bang on.

 

[Mobiandi]

That's a sign of a problem with leadership (lack thereof) IMO

Meh. They never stopped battling for Hartley in the 13-14 and 15-16 seasons when they were pretty much out of the race early on. And we have essentially the same core now as we did back then.

 

[Lunatik]

Francis may like clicks but this pretty bang on.

Not especially. The most accurate things about this thread is the title, Francis is indeed a tire fire.

 

[herashak]

Francis will have his mom do anything and everything for him to win so his opinion is kind of.... Eric Francis’ opinion. But Monahan is annoyingly timid sometimes and Gaudreaus fancy little moves dry up and since he can’t snipe himself there is a ceiling to his effectiveness.

But this is a 4th round pick and 6th overall pick they can’t be expected to be Crosby and they don’t have to be.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

But what evidence is there of this?

There isn’t a smoking gun to point at, I fully admit. Just a lot of little things that when I look at it from my side of the glass, or screen, it just feels... wrong? Awkward? Uncomfortable? Can’t put my finger on it.

Look at the bench next game when they’re inevitably going to be down a goal or two or seven. Nobody is even interested let lone trying to rally the others. It’s not that they’ve given up on the coach it appears they’ve given up on each other.

Stick throwings and f- bomb laced tirades only get you so far and may have permanently damaged the coaching staffs' relationship with the players. After being shown the whip too often even the best horse will become afraid of the carrot.

 

[Lunatik]

There isn’t a smoking gun to point at, I fully admit. Just a lot of little things that when I look at it from my side of the glass, or screen, it just feels... wrong? Awkward? Uncomfortable? Can’t put my finger on it.

Look at the bench next game when they’re inevitably going to be down a goal or two or seven. Nobody is even interested let lone trying to rally the others. It’s not that they’ve given up on the coach it appears they’ve given up on each other.

Stick throwings and f- bomb laced tirades only get you so far and may have permanently damaged the coaching staffs' relationship with the players. After being shown the whip too often even the best horse will become afraid of the carrot.

I think the problem is confidence

 

[Anglesmith]

Eric Francis capitalizing on the fact that the fanbase at this point is entirely willing to lap up this kind of stuff.

What is there of substance here?

Yes, it has been a massively disappointing season for a team that we all know is capable of much more than this. What more needs to be said? Make the changes necessary in the off-season and keep building towards the goal of being a contender.

 

[Lunatik]

Eric Francis capitalizing on the fact that the fanbase at this point is entirely willing to lap up this kind of stuff.

What is there of substance here?

Yes, it has been a massively disappointing season for a team that we all know is capable of much more than this. What more needs to be said? Make the changes necessary in the off-season and keep building towards the goal of being a contender.

First change we need to make is ban Eric Francis from covering the Flames.
Second change can be the coaching staff.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

I was listening on Sportsnet and they were talking about how the Flames are lacking leadership and character, both on the ice and behind the bench. Not enough guys who care about or know what it takes to win. Fair assessment?

Sounds like horsecrap speculation, to me. They talked the same nonsense when the Flames had trouble succeeding under Iginla. It went from "best captain in the league, and Robyn Regehr best assistant captain in the league" to "country club atmosphere". Similarly, I've heard nothing but good things about Giordano's work ethic and leadership qualities; ditto (to a lesser extent) for guys like Backlund and Monahan. I assume the guys on Sportsnet just want a juicy angle, and I also assume it's the idiot Boomer positing this?

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Hindsight and all that but imagine if they jumped on Eric Staal, he'd be perfect for Johnny, big, skilled, tough, can score, doesnt shy away from hacking and slashing when other teams take liberties.

I get your point, but it's a little funny that you're saying the guy who is the best fit for Gaudreau is literally the one who broke his hand last year by being a dirty piece of trash.

 

[Anglesmith]

Eric Francis is basically just going to the Steve Simmons school of journalism. Controversy and disappointment are absolute treats for him, because it gives him an angle to stir up narratives and generate clicks from passionately angry fans.

The Flames have leadership issues just like Phil Kessel was an uncoachable loser who enjoys hot dogs more than winning.

 

[Tofveve]

he got 22 as a rookie with no help on his line and not getting 1st line minutes.

The continuing scapegoating and crap thrown at Monahan has gone beyond baffling and is just plain moronic at this point. The guy is constantly putting up big numbers and yet people still try to blame him and pump up much lesser players. Sure a lot of it comes from two posters with clear agendas but it seems to be creeping in more and more with very little basis in fact and more plain BS like above.

Who's crapping on him?

Fact is, he's been getting primo ice time as a number 1 centre which gives a player numbers.

And if you had been following on a game bb game basis he's all but disappeared for lengthy stretches of games. The middle half of the season for instance. Literally for 15-20 game stretches. The numbers may show a third of a point reduction but the play is far worse and even non-existent.

And this is coming from someone who is a reluctant to say any of this. I'd say Johnny's level of compete on a game to game basis is easily twice that of Monahan's. No one shows up for 82 games, but SM doesn't show up (or barely does) for a third to half.

I swear some of you really don't watch or you have extremely short memories.