Value of: MAF and Hornquist to Calgary.

[Volica]

If Trevliving won't move any of Bennett, Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton or any of the top end forwards (Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund and Frolik), I have a really tough time imagining the Flames having the assets to throw together a package for Hornqvist and Fleury. The Flames only have a 1st rounder this year and all of their valuable assets seem to be untouchable.

Not interested in Horny. He's one of those guys who has value to his team; but simply is not a real asset for Calgary to target. I've liked the player since his early days in Nashville. Just not a fit in Calgary. We also do not have Malkin or Crosby to saddle him up beside to profit.

Our real interest is MAF; I think.

Probably something around a 2018 2nd/3rd and a prospect like Morgan Klimchuk or Emile Poirier for Fleury. It's the best we could offer. There's still a number of goalies on the market, and less and less teams looking for some.

 

[wej20]

I think Hornqvist is the sort of guy who would thrive everywhere, he plays the game so damn hard, plus he's one of the premier net front PP guys in the league.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Flames just made the playoffs. Adding Hornqvist and Fleury would basically guarantee they get back again next year (barring injuries) and maybe even contend. By adding another piece or two.

People are talking about their age and how it doesn't fit with their young core but those are the types of players you need to make that core get better..continue to grow. Preventing them from being a one and done team like we saw with the Avs a few years ago.

With that said, no way do I trade Hornqvist. Too valuable come playoff time. We can find other wingers to trade for a dman like Sheary and Hagelin.

 

[Nakawick]

With Sprong waiting in the minors, and Murray as the goalie in the Penguins future, what would it take to get these 2? Calgary could use a vet RW option that can score unlike Brouwer and a decent goalie to cover until one of our young guys is ready.

Ask yourself who on the flames would help the Pens roster. Remember, the Pens are going for it each year for probably the next 5 years. Centers and Dman who can contribute now would be what the Pens are asking for. Who on the flames would fit the Pens Roster? MAF alone and I would consider futures, but if we are moving Hornqvist we need an asset who can contribute now.

 

[Mobiandi]

We just don't have the depth to make any big moves involving roster players from our side.

 

[StroShow]

Fleury for Porier and a 2nd

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not interested in Horny. He's one of those guys who has value to his team; but simply is not a real asset for Calgary to target. I've liked the player since his early days in Nashville. Just not a fit in Calgary. We also do not have Malkin or Crosby to saddle him up beside to profit.

Our real interest is MAF; I think.

Probably something around a 2018 2nd/3rd and a prospect like Morgan Klimchuk or Emile Poirier for Fleury. It's the best we could offer. There's still a number of goalies on the market, and less and less teams looking for some.

Hornqvist is what the Flames thought they were getting in Brouwer.

Any team would love a guy like Hornqvist on their roster. Obviously price is the sticking point, but to say there's no fit or not an asset to target for Calgary is weird. He's exactly the kind of veteran winger your young guys need.

Hornqvist is an absolute warrior and would go through a wall for his team. That's the kind of "intangibles" you need on winning teams.

 

[Riptide]

Knowing Pittsburgh, they'll want Brodie lol...

Does this surprise you? What else do you realistically have that would interest us to trade our only good net front guy for the PP and grittiest top 6 winger?

I know many Calgary fan's opinion on MAF (just go see the 15-17 page thread on it that was still going earlier this week). And that's fine, but that aside, if we're including Hornqvist, what can Calgary realistically offer that Pittsburgh actually would want or need?

Currently, going into next season Pittsburgh has 2 needs. A #3C and a high end puck moving top 4D. If those needs are not being met, why is Pittsburgh making the trade?

 

[Skobel24]

We just don't have the depth to make any big moves involving roster players from our side.

Exactly. It would not be worth giving up what it would take to acquire Hornqvist. It would just add holes elsewhere.

Fleury for Porier and a 2nd

I'd be fine with this, but I'd want that pick to be a conditional pick. 3rd, turns into a 2nd if the Flames make the playoffs, and Fleury plays more than 40 games. Barring injury or a total collapse from him, he'd meet those requirements easily.

 

[Riptide]

I had no idea Hornquist had such value. So let's keep it simple. What about Klimchuk and a 2nd for MAF before expansion draft?

I'd certainly be interested. I wouldn't jump all over it, at least not until seeing what other options I had, but neither would I dismiss it out of hand. That said I'd rather try and go for a D prospect instead based on Pittsburgh's needs.

 

[wej20]

Exactly. It would not be worth giving up what it would take to acquire Hornqvist. It would just add holes elsewhere.



I'd be fine with this, but I'd want that pick to be a conditional pick. 3rd, turns into a 2nd if the Flames make the playoffs, and Fleury plays more than 40 games. Barring injury or a total collapse from him, he'd meet those requirements easily.

What's the deal with Poirier? his AHL numbers are trending down.

 

[Riptide]

Bennett is the flames highest ever draft pick....

The offer for Fleury is a 2nd at most. You can't muddy the waters and add spare parts to convince Calgary to give up a high end young piece. Calgary needs their dmen and young forwards.

Just an FYI: Pittsburgh turned down a better offer from Calgary last summer (2017 2nd, 2018 2nd).

Calgary is a destination for no one. MAF has zero interest in going to Calgary. Pens are not trading Hornqvist. Calgary will bring in a goalie who is not championship caliber and will complain once again about missing the payoffs or one and done.

Fleury wants to be a #1 goalie who starts 50+ games in the NHL next year. Right now there's only 3 teams that can offer that to him (LV, CGY and PHI).

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Have some respect for Fleury's NMC

Just because a trade might look logical, is it? Fleury has a veto to where he goes. Would he want to go to Calgary? If I was Fleury and let's say agreed to go to Calgary....there might be a condition. I'll only traded for a 7th rounder. I don't want to weaken my new team. Otherwise I will just stay with my 2017 Cup Champs Pens.
And this illusion that the Pens can "work out a deal" with Vegas. Vegas has a cap too and might not have any interest in Fleury, even if Fleury waives his NMC for the draft.

 

[Riptide]

Just because a trade might look logical, is it? Fleury has a veto to where he goes. Would he want to go to Calgary? If I was Fleury and let's say agreed to go to Calgary....there might be a condition. I'll only traded for a 7th rounder. I don't want to weaken my new team. Otherwise I will just stay with my 2017 Cup Champs Pens.
And this illusion that the Pens can "work out a deal" with Vegas. Vegas has a cap too and might not have any interest in Fleury, even if Fleury waives his NMC for the draft.

Not completely. His NMC is a limited one that only prevents him from going onto waivers (which is why he needs to be protected for the ED). His protection against trades is a 12 team no trade list.

But even that will have complications... because there's only 3 teams in the NHL who might potentially be interested in his services prior to the ED - Calgary, LV and Philly. Which means if he wants to be a starter in the NHL, his options from the outset will be extremely limited. Realistically, his NTC is probably going to be meaningless. He wants to be a #1G, which means he's not likely going to have much (if any) choice on where he ends up.

 

[wej20]

Just because a trade might look logical, is it? Fleury has a veto to where he goes. Would he want to go to Calgary? If I was Fleury and let's say agreed to go to Calgary....there might be a condition. I'll only traded for a 7th rounder. I don't want to weaken my new team. Otherwise I will just stay with my 2017 Cup Champs Pens.
And this illusion that the Pens can "work out a deal" with Vegas. Vegas has a cap too and might not have any interest in Fleury, even if Fleury waives his NMC for the draft.

When has that ever happened? if he tries to stay with the Pens then he'll be bought out.

 

[Roughly6Owls]

When has that ever happened? if he tries to stay with the Pens then he'll be bought out.

That accomplishes this hypothetical goal though -- Calgary (or whoever his target team is) can just sign him as a free agent.

It changes the narrative, but he ends up on a team without weakening it.

As far as the proposed trade, one of the Penguins posters nailed it early in the thread:

There is too sharp of a decline in the value of assets from the untouchable group to the touchable group.

This is something that is true of Calgary's dealings with every team -- the depth players are almost valueless and the core is still under construction, so you end up in this bad situation for trading where the difference between the #3 defenseman (either Brodie or Hamilton) and the #4 defenseman (either Brett Kulak or whoever they get in free agency) is this massive gulf and there's basically no one in between. It's true on forward too, where your top six ends with Bennett (Backlund/Bennett/Frolik/Gaudreau/Monahan/Tkachuk), and then your bottom six is made of garbage. The only player with actual value in between is Ferland, and even he's the kind of player who's not going to be worth a lot.

 

[FlamerForLife]

Just an FYI: Pittsburgh turned down a better offer from Calgary last summer (2017 2nd, 2018 2nd).



Fleury wants to be a #1 goalie who starts 50+ games in the NHL next year. Right now there's only 3 teams that can offer that to him (LV, CGY and PHI).

Not trying to be an ass, but what's the source for this?

 

[Riptide]

Not trying to be an ass, but what's the source for this?

That came from one of Pittsburgh's posters on HF last summer who had legitimate source(s) within the organization (and who had an established track record to prove it).

Edit. And I know as I write that how some will laugh it off - whatever. But that doesn't change things. He had some sort of access to the team or someone close to the team, and from that access was able to glen info that wasn't public knowledge. Our mod's vetted him enough that he could post said info.

 

[Skobel24]

That came from one of Pittsburgh's posters on HF last summer who had legitimate source(s) within the organization (and who had an established track record to prove it).

Edit. And I know as I write that how some will laugh it off - whatever. But that doesn't change things. He had some sort of access to the team or someone close to the team, and from that access was able to glen info that wasn't public knowledge. Our mod's vetted him enough that he could post said info.

I'm not gonna shrug it off, seems a lot of the boards have had insiders on them in the past. Keep in mind though Pittsburgh had just won a cup, and Calgary just finished bottom 5. If I was Fleury, I'd probably want to stick around and try to win back the starting job in Pittsburgh. The difference is, I think he knows that the end is near. Whether it's a trade, buyout, or waiving for Vegas. Even then, his options are likely very limited. Dallas just signed Bishop, so that leaves Calgary, Winnipeg, and Philly (off the top of my head. There may be others). Can't see Pittsburgh dealing him to Philly either.

What's the deal with Poirier? his AHL numbers are trending down.

He's better than his numbers show, but I don't think there is any chance for him being a top 6 guy at this point. He's insanely fast, with some offensive instincts. I think he could still be a 3rd line guy. A change of scenery could really do him well.

 

[Roughly6Owls]

re: Poirier, there's still hope for him, but at this point reasonable projections are probably someone like Antoine Roussel: a 25-30 points per year pest.

 

[66-30-33]

Pass on trading Hornqvist.

 

[Volica]

Hornqvist is what the Flames thought they were getting in Brouwer.

Any team would love a guy like Hornqvist on their roster. Obviously price is the sticking point, but to say there's no fit or not an asset to target for Calgary is weird. He's exactly the kind of veteran winger your young guys need.

Hornqvist is an absolute warrior and would go through a wall for his team. That's the kind of "intangibles" you need on winning teams.

As I mentioned, I like Horny, and I agree that he's a great part to have on the team... but the price to acquire him from Pittsburgh would be more than he's worth to us. Know what I mean?

 

[Riptide]

I'm not gonna shrug it off, seems a lot of the boards have had insiders on them in the past. Keep in mind though Pittsburgh had just won a cup, and Calgary just finished bottom 5.If I was Fleury, I'd probably want to stick around and try to win back the starting job in Pittsburgh. The difference is, I think he knows that the end is near. Whether it's a trade, buyout, or waiving for Vegas. Even then, his options are likely very limited. Dallas just signed Bishop, so that leaves Calgary, Winnipeg, and Philly (off the top of my head. There may be others). Can't see Pittsburgh dealing him to Philly either.

Just a note, at the time, we were told that Calgary wasn't on MAFs NTC. Before he left the board, he wasn't sure if MAF had changed that or not (between late June and early/mid July before he left). And when he could have added then (July 2015), Calgary had been in the playoffs and gone to the 2nd round.

 

[3074326]

It's not a good package. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you'll get it. You're probably losing MAF no matter what. You'll be lucky to salvage anything there. Hornquivst is the type of guy that is often available on the FA market.

And just because your fan that started the thread wanted MAF and Hornqvist, you will not be getting them without one of the top 3 defenders. Works both ways, chief.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

I love groupthink on hf. It really is comical.
MAF has no value.....just ask the Capitals.
Guys like Hornqvist are easy to acquire......... yet very few teams have a guy like him.