Value of: Madison Bowey to Toronto

[LeafGrief]

Out of curiosity, why not? Johansson is a versatile 200 ft player, Bowey has top pair upside and Samsonov puts another good young goalie in the system.

Today obviously Washington gets the better return, but I think it evens out at the very least down the road.

I'd make that deal if I was Lou, although I've been accused of underrating Nylander.

You answered your own question.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Out of curiosity, why not? Johansson is a versatile 200 ft player, Bowey has top pair upside and Samsonov puts another good young goalie in the system.

Today obviously Washington gets the better return, but I think it evens out at the very least down the road.

Because it's a bad deal, that's why. Actually it's not very close either

 

[kk87]

What about JVR and Nylander for Johansson, Bowey, Samsonov?

Brutal for Toronto in my opinion

 

[sparxx87]

You answered your own question.

Because it's a bad deal, that's why. Actually it's not very close either

Maybe, although I think the same could be said of Bowey. I've always thought he'll be a top pairing defender. I don't see Nylander as more then a 50-60 point player, and I highly doubt he'll stick in the middle. He's a winger IMO.

 

[Mugzy97]

What in the world? Two of the top 3 prospects? And a second?

Maybe the value is off but IMO that's what it would take for Toronto to move JVR, if not we just keep him. The 2nd was to make up for the cap dump, so basically JVR for Bowey Samsonov. I personally think caps need the top pairing LW to make a push for a cup right now in their window and that's why I think they could look at this as an option. Also goalie prospects value can be seen as a bit lower than any other position just because of the uncertainty of goalies.

This is my explanation although I'm sure people will disagree.

 

[Halla]

Maybe, although I think the same could be said of Bowey. I've always thought he'll be a top pairing defender. I don't see Nylander as more then a 50-60 point player, and I highly doubt he'll stick in the middle. He's a winger IMO.

you dont see a guy who put up 11 pts in his last 12 games as more than a 50-60pt player? based on what? he has lit it up at every level.

hell no to any deal involving nylander where a young top 4 dman (right now) isnt coming back. think trouba

 

[WTFMAN99]

Out of curiosity, why not? Johansson is a versatile 200 ft player, Bowey has top pair upside and Samsonov puts another good young goalie in the system.

Today obviously Washington gets the better return, but I think it evens out at the very least down the road.

And if the 2 prospects don't develop?

Someone may say that about Nylander but he's been great since we've drafted him. JVR is good for 30/30 production at the least every season.

MoJo is a "nice" player but doesn't really appeal to me. Samsonov and Bowey are nice but not at the expense of our only top 6 winger with size and a top 3 prospect of ours.

I think you answered it on your own, you're selling Nylander a bit short. Not that I don't like these prospects of Washingtons, but doesn't seem like a deal Toronto should make right now.

 

[StephenPeat]

JVR

For

Bowey
Samsonov
Cap dump
2nd

I'm curious if any team in the salary cap era of the NHL has ever traded 2 Top 3 organizational prospects for a single player. I'm gonna go ahead and guess, if it has happened which is sufficiently unlikely, that the player was better than JVR. The Caps also no longer have a Cap Dump player that would make this even remotely palatable. Personally, I wouldn't add much to either Bowey OR Samsonov for JVR, fine player, not worth overpaying for in the position the Caps are currently in. Expansion and the current parity in the league mean trades involving Top Prospects are going to become ever more and more rare, the risk of these trades biting the team trading futures in the behind is too high (Kessel, Forsberg, Yandle, etc) and competing teams can only remain competitive by playing contributing players on ELCs. If the Caps are going all-in with that package they should aim higher than JVR.

 

[thecapsfan]

Don't be ridiculous. The Leafs don't have the cap space for that.

That's irrelevant to the point he was trying to make dude, he wasn't actually proposing it, he was making a point.

 

[Eyre]

woosh

 

[Hurt]

Isn't Bowey the guy that tried to elbow our AHL kids twice in the playoffs? Or am I thinking of someone else?

 

[Thundermare]

Brutal for Toronto in my opinion

Less brutal than the other proposal for JVR...

 

[StephenPeat]

Curious to see what the Caps might want in exchange for Bowey. Looking at their lineup projections, most fans have 7 or 8 guys ahead of him on the depth chart.

I know he won't come cheap, but it appears each team has a surplus at a position of need for the other. These two teams could make good trading partners.

My curiosity is piqued. What 7 or 8 guys are projected to be ahead of him by "most fans." I'd say Carlson-Orpik, Niskanen-Alzner, Schmidt - Orlov are clearly the Top-6, beyond that I'd guess Chorney and Ness are the bench/injury call-up but I wouldn't be surprised to see Bowey supplant either of them and become the 7th or at least get several (multiple) games at the highest level to test his readiness this upcoming season, effectively making him interchangeably the 7th Dman (with only the Top 6 clearly ahead) in no way does that put 7 or 8 guys in front of him (if we're being honest your suggestion was disingenuous to attempt to devalue Bowey's position to the Caps). Regardless, I'd trade (one of) Orlov/Schmidt before Bowey and would give up Ness and Chorney for nothing before I'd trade Bowey for anything.

 

[StephenPeat]

Less brutal than the other proposal for JVR...

Are you new to HfLeafs? You're going to need to be A LOT more specific. I doubt the offseason expires without a merged JVR megathread.

 

[sparxx87]

you dont see a guy who put up 11 pts in his last 12 games as more than a 50-60pt player? based on what? he has lit it up at every level.

hell no to any deal involving nylander where a young top 4 dman (right now) isnt coming back. think trouba

I don't, no. It's a small sample size. Lots of mediocre players produce a PPG over selected 12 game stretches. I think he'll be a solid player, not an elite player. 30-30 peak is great production, but if Bowey becomes the top pair, all situation guy riding shotgun with Rielly, I value him above a 50-60 pt winger.

Nylander won't net you Trouba.

I'll be ecstatic if Nylander exceeds my expectations, I just wouldn't bet on it. Feel free to disagree.

And if the 2 prospects don't develop?

Someone may say that about Nylander but he's been great since we've drafted him. JVR is good for 30/30 production at the least every season.

MoJo is a "nice" player but doesn't really appeal to me. Samsonov and Bowey are nice but not at the expense of our only top 6 winger with size and a top 3 prospect of ours.

I think you answered it on your own, you're selling Nylander a bit short. Not that I don't like these prospects of Washingtons, but doesn't seem like a deal Toronto should make right now.

That's fair. I'm confident in Bowey's upside, but I don't disagree with your logic... It would be tough to stomach getting only Johansson for Nylander and JVR, especially if Nylander becomes what some project him to be.

 

[StephenPeat]

And if the 2 prospects don't develop?

Someone may say that about Nylander but he's been great since we've drafted him. JVR is good for 30/30 production at the least every season.

MoJo is a "nice" player but doesn't really appeal to me. Samsonov and Bowey are nice but not at the expense of our only top 6 winger with size and a top 3 prospect of ours.

I think you answered it on your own, you're selling Nylander a bit short. Not that I don't like these prospects of Washingtons, but doesn't seem like a deal Toronto should make right now.

Good to know that for a guy who actually only has two seasons of 50+ pts and one of 60+, something that has happened once is now guaranteed "at the least every season." Yet Mojo is a "nice" player who is at least truthfully a consistent 45pt player, which last season would have placed him as tied for the team lead on the Leafs.

 

[LeafsNation149]

A lot of Leafs fans hate Bowey (myself included)

Don't want this dirty player any where near the Leafs

 

[StephenPeat]

A lot of Leafs fans hate Bowey (myself included)

Don't want this dirty player any where near the Leafs

As far as I know, Bowey has never been suspended. If you are talking about the Kapanen elbow, it was penalized, it was also the exact hit you see go unpunished at all levels (in terms of supplementary discipline) on any given night. The AHL investigated the hit and decided not to suspend Bowey, that the penalty and ejection were sufficient. I think it's okay for everyone to move on now.

 

[koalabear9301]

A lot of Leafs fans hate Bowey (myself included)

Don't want this dirty player any where near the Leafs

Except he's not a dirty player.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I don't, no. It's a small sample size. Lots of mediocre players produce a PPG over selected 12 game stretches. I think he'll be a solid player, not an elite player. 30-30 peak is great production, but if Bowey becomes the top pair, all situation guy riding shotgun with Rielly, I value him above a 50-60 pt winger.

Nylander won't net you Trouba.

I'll be ecstatic if Nylander exceeds my expectations, I just wouldn't bet on it. Feel free to disagree.

That's fair. I'm confident in Bowey's upside, but I don't disagree with your logic... It would be tough to stomach getting only Johansson for Nylander and JVR, especially if Nylander becomes what some project him to be.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion (and I do respect yours), but imho Nylander has greater upside and is more likely to reach it. I'd bet on him being better than a 50-60 pt winger over Bowey being a top pairing d.