MacKinnon vs. Barkov

[Thenameless]

I prefer MacKinnon, but I am also heavily biased.

If I were the Habs GM, it would be MacKinnon for sure. The Habs already have Weber and Price, but they need scoring so badly. With MacKinnon on the team, guys like Pacioretty, Drouin, Galchenyuk, and Gallagher would all become better.

 

[freecheese]

Mackinnon is scoring at a pace of 110 points per 82 games with a good level of defense.
Barkov is scoring at a pace of 86 points per 82 games with ELITE level defense

Barkov is one of the best defensive players in the game, but based on this season there's a difference of 24 points between the two over the course of an entire season. Based on that I just don't understand how people in this thread can continue to say the difference between defensive abilities between the two is greater than the difference in offensive abilities. 24 ****ing points is a lot.

The big question is whether or not this is the norm going forward? If they both continue to score at similar rates the answer is absolutely Mackinnon. If Mackinnon's scoring goes down and Barkov's stays the same then the argument of the difference in defensive abilities is justifiable. It's not justifiable when one is scoring at a pace of 24 points above the other though.

That 24 point difference is just a projection off this season averages. MacK's numbers may very well be outlier, so it isn't accurate to project his career path vicariously through a 57 game sample size. Barkov, however, has always been an elite defender, so it's not the same comparison.

And, if you base their career projections off their prior career offensive trajectory (see line graph), Barkov is more likely to close that gap offensively as he's been improving every season on that he's got in the league. He may very well peak at (or surpass) MacK's offensive output, but we know for a fact that his defense will always be 1st tier.

There's still a level of uncertainty with MacK.

 

[whitstifier]

My pick is Barkov, who's been around a PPG for a few seasons now. I like his upside better than MacKinnon's, too

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That 24 point difference is just a projection off this season averages. MacK's numbers may very well be outlier, so it isn't accurate to project his career path vicariously through a 57 game sample size. Barkov, however, has always been an elite defender, so it's not the same comparison.

And, if you base their career projections off their prior career offensive trajectory (see line graph), Barkov is more likely to close that gap offensively as he's been improving every season on that he's got in the league. He may very well peak at (or surpass) MacK's offensive output, but we know for a fact that his defense will always be 1st tier.

There's still a level of uncertainty with MacK.

LOL Career trajectory? Is that a joke? These are two 22 year old players. The most recent year is always the one you look at most when looking at U23 players.

As I said in my post, it comes down to how consistent these players are compared to this year which is a career year for both. IF they both continue to play like they have this year or similar to it, it's Mackinnon. If Mackinnon cools off or Barkov's offense takes another step, it's probably Barkov.

There's no denying that Barkov is by far the better defensive player, but based on this season Mackinnon is by far the better offensive player. 24 point average difference based on 82 games.

 

[thomast]

LOL Career trajectory? Is that a joke? These are two 22 year old players. The most recent year is always the one you look at most when looking at U23 players.

As I said in my post, it comes down to how consistent these players are compared to this year which is a career year for both. IF they both continue to play like they have this year or similar to it, it's Mackinnon. If Mackinnon cools off or Barkov's offense takes another step, it's probably Barkov.

There's no denying that Barkov is by far the better defensive player, but based on this season Mackinnon is by far the better offensive player. 24 point average difference based on 82 games.

If we look at only this season i would understand most picking MacKinnon because he has been so dynamic offensively. Deserves hart if they make PO’s. If i would pick player for next decade then it would be Barkov because his growth have been consistent. MacKinnon in the other hand is been inconsistent with his developement. He is medium risk-giant reward type of pick between these 2. Barkov in the other hand will be elite for sure without any injuries. He will be that PPG-90point perennial selke candidate #1 C no question about that. MacKinnon could be competing couple times for art trophy if he continues this pace.

At this very moment MacKinnon have been performing better. So i understand why he is favoured by some posters. Barkov is guaranteed elite two-way #1 C in the future. He is more talented than Datsyuk at same age for sure. Has all the same tools but with size. He is hard to pass too.

To me there is pretty clear answer who have been better this year. It is MacKinnon. For next decade? It is very unclear. I don’t think there is clear answer and it is more about personal preference atm. We only know when Barkov has hit his ceiling and MacKinnon have been beasting out for longer.

 

[cgf]

MacK had a rough sophomore season, but his development has been very consistent (see line graph).

And Barkov does not have all of the same tools, lol. He doesn't have MacK's explosiveness, shot or offensive talent.

 

[thomast]

MacK had a rough sophomore season, but his development has been very consistent (see line graph).

And Barkov does not have all of the same tools, lol. He doesn't have MacK's explosiveness, shot or offensive talent.

Are you little sensitive? I was saying that Barkov has same tools with Datsyuk but with size. MacKinnon is totally different type of player. If Barkov had MacKinnon speed he would be McDavid tier.

You can’t just see whole picture and understand other arguments and point of view? I understand very well why some posters would pick MacKinnon as i stated. You seem to have tunnel vision to not understand why some posters would pick Barkov. He has been more consistent than MacKinnon with his developement there is nothing to deny it.

It’s really tough decision and very unclear. Would you rather have a player who have been steadily better every year and is surefire elite two-way foward or a player who had struggled before with his developement but has exploded offensively and shows art ross type of production. I would put my money on stocks that rises steadily but i understand that reward is higher with MacKinnon.

There is NO clear answer for the future. It’s really even.

MacKinnon had tough second and even third season. I watched alot of MacKinnon and all i saw was frustration in his game. Now he has figured out how he should play in NHL and upside is scary but there is little bit of doubt because he struggled after his rookie season too.

 

[cgf]

Are you little sensitive? I was saying that Barkov has same tools with Datsyuk but with size. MacKinnon is totally different type of player. If Barkov had MacKinnon speed he would be McDavid tier.

You can’t just see whole picture and understand other arguments and point of view? I understand very well why some posters would pick MacKinnon as i stated. You seem to have tunnel vision to not understand why some posters would pick Barkov. He has been more consistent than MacKinnon with his developement there is nothing to deny it.

It’s really tough decision and very unclear. Would you rather have a player who have been steadily better every year and is surefire elite two-way foward or a player who had struggled before with his developement but has exploded offensively and shows art ross type of production. I would put my money on stocks that rises steadily but i understand that reward is higher with MacKinnon.

There is NO clear answer for the future. It’s really even.

MacKinnon had tough second and even third season. I watched alot of MacKinnon and all i saw was frustration in his game. Now he has figured out how he should play in NHL and upside is scary but there is little bit of doubt because he struggled after his rookie season too.

Barkov is amazing but no, I don't see why anyone would pick him anymore unless they already have McDavid and are thinking about who would be the better #2 The offensive gap is simply too big to justify voting for Sasha for any reasons other than homerism any more. Barkov's production has increased more steadily, but that doesn't actually mean anything 1) because production is not development, as MacKinnon has developed very steadily since that injury ravaged sophomore season, and 2) because development is not linear, these are young humans, not stocks. Both are just 22, so neither has even hit their peak yet, which is why it doesn't matter what they did 3-4 years ago.

I'm not sensitive on this topic, I love Barkov & am feeling mighty justified for the all of the arguments I got into on here defending him as a Thornton-Kopitar hybrid in the making, but that line graph was just exceedingly stupid.


PS You're not the only one who got tricked by the HF-memes related to MacKinnon, but he was having a great third season until he injured his hand/wrist. He was flashing the dominant player he has become and was dragging along the team while everyone else decided to sleepwalk through the first month of the season. He only struggled in his second season when he was seriously injured. #themoreyouknow

 

[Jarey Curry]

Are you little sensitive? I was saying that Barkov has same tools with Datsyuk but with size. MacKinnon is totally different type of player. If Barkov had MacKinnon speed he would be McDavid tier.

You can’t just see whole picture and understand other arguments and point of view? I understand very well why some posters would pick MacKinnon as i stated. You seem to have tunnel vision to not understand why some posters would pick Barkov. He has been more consistent than MacKinnon with his developement there is nothing to deny it.

It’s really tough decision and very unclear. Would you rather have a player who have been steadily better every year and is surefire elite two-way foward or a player who had struggled before with his developement but has exploded offensively and shows art ross type of production. I would put my money on stocks that rises steadily but i understand that reward is higher with MacKinnon.

There is NO clear answer for the future. It’s really even.

MacKinnon had tough second and even third season. I watched alot of MacKinnon and all i saw was frustration in his game. Now he has figured out how he should play in NHL and upside is scary but there is little bit of doubt because he struggled after his rookie season too.

If Barkov had Mackinnons speed he would be McDavid tier hahah
If MacKinnon had Barkovs defensive play, he'd be better than McDavid tier clear number one player in the world

 

[FinRuutu]

If my grandmother had wheels she would be a bike.

 

[Asheville]

2 more assists for Barky. Closing in on the Selke.

 

[SotasicA]

I'll pick MacKinnon for the skills. He seems like the ideal franchise center. It's very difficult to find a player with his skill level.

Barkov is more a Messier type, ideal as a #2C, if you want to win a Cup.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

I'll pick MacKinnon for the skills. He seems like the ideal franchise center. It's very difficult to find a player with his skill level.

Barkov is more a Messier type, ideal as a #2C, if you want to win a Cup.

That's a disrespect of Messier and Barkov. You're MacKinnon assessment is not a problem.

 

[authentic]

I'll pick MacKinnon for the skills. He seems like the ideal franchise center. It's very difficult to find a player with his skill level.

Barkov is more a Messier type, ideal as a #2C, if you want to win a Cup.

He's not really like Messier at all. Far different styles, he's much better defensively than Messier was and Messier was much more dirty and physical, completely different players other than they play center. Datsyuk is a much better comparable for Barkov.

 

[authentic]

To be honest when I watch Barkov lately he looks like a flawless player, seems to be elite at everything and his speed and skating ability is even underrated.

 

[avsfan09]

I'll pick MacKinnon for the skills. He seems like the ideal franchise center. It's very difficult to find a player with his skill level.

Barkov is more a Messier type, ideal as a #2C, if you want to win a Cup.

Barkov is an elite 1 C. His only issue is durability.

 

[BB88]

I'll pick MacKinnon for the skills. He seems like the ideal franchise center. It's very difficult to find a player with his skill level.

Barkov is more a Messier type, ideal as a #2C, if you want to win a Cup.

You realize Barkov is the engine of Floridas team? He has 25 points in the last 18 games, every game is basically a must win game and Barkov has been dominating all over the ice.

Barkov is an elite 1 C. His only issue is durability.

Durability is the wrong word.

He's playing the most for F's and just getting better.
He's been injury prone so far, with a head shot concussion, broken wrist by a blocked shot on pk and so on.

 

[SotasicA]

You realize Barkov is the engine of Floridas team? He has 25 points in the last 18 games, every game is basically a must win game and Barkov has been dominating all over the ice.

Yeah, but the Panthers kind of suck. On a Stanley Cup team, I'd have him on the 2nd line.

 

[Beezeral]

Yeah, but the Panthers kind of suck. On a Stanley Cup team, I'd have him on the 2nd line.

yea, if im also living in a fantasy world and building a stanley cup team where the salary cap doesn't matter and I could put anyone I want on the team, I'd have Barkov as my 4th line center. My other 3 centers would be McDavid, Crosby, and Malkin. your comment that he would be a 2nd line center on your stanley cup team makes zero sense because it's just not realistic. At minimum Barkov would be the #1 center on WAS, PHI, NJD,CBJ, NSH, MNW, DAL, VGK, ANH, SJS and all those playoff teams would be absolutely thrilled about it.

Also, the Panthers don't kind of suck, they are 2 points out of the final playoff spot in the East and have been one of the best teams in the NHL since the All Star Break.

 

[SotasicA]

Barkov would be the #1 center on WAS, PHI, NJD,CBJ, NSH, MNW, DAL, VGK, ANH, SJS

Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf? I think he's about on par with Couturier, Staal and Pavelski. I'd imagine Hischier will be better than him.

 

[bsu]

yea, if im also living in a fantasy world and building a stanley cup team where the salary cap doesn't matter and I could put anyone I want on the team, I'd have Barkov as my 4th line center. My other 3 centers would be McDavid, Crosby, and Malkin. your comment that he would be a 2nd line center on your stanley cup team makes zero sense because it's just not realistic. At minimum Barkov would be the #1 center on WAS, PHI, NJD,CBJ, NSH, MNW, DAL, VGK, ANH, SJS and all those playoff teams would be absolutely thrilled about it.

Also, the Panthers don't kind of suck, they are 2 points out of the final playoff spot in the East and have been one of the best teams in the NHL since the All Star Break.

Then you woke up

 

[Beezeral]

Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf? I think he's about on par with Couturier, Staal and Pavelski. I'd imagine Hischier will be better than him.

thanks for this. I was pretty sure you had no idea what you were talking about. Now I have no doubt.

 

[BB88]

Yeah, but the Panthers kind of suck. On a Stanley Cup team, I'd have him on the 2nd line.

Colorado is a Cup contender now?

Barkov has been one of the best players this year and proven to be able to carry a team at #1C.

 

[cgf]

He's not really like Messier at all. Far different styles, he's much better defensively than Messier was and Messier was much more dirty and physical, completely different players other than they play center. Datsyuk is a much better comparable for Barkov.

His offensive game is nowhere near as dynamic as Datsyuk’s. He’s a Jumbo Joe/Kopitar hybrid through & through. He has the exact same cerebral playmaking game & ability to shield the puck that Jumbo does; and his defensive game is already matching Kopi’s.

Kid’s an absolute beast but other than being a high scoring selke candidate, Datsyuk is a weird comparison

 

[cgf]

Backstrom, Seguin, Getzlaf? I think he's about on par with Couturier, Staal and Pavelski. I'd imagine Hischier will be better than him.

Sasha is better than Backstrom & Getzlaf. seguin’s defensive transformation this season makes that one tough, but the other two? Not so much.