Proposal: MacKinnon for McDavid

[FoppaForsberg*]

I stand by my source, he has some growing up to do.

 

[Freudian]

I don't expect all hockey players to be awesome people. I'm sure there are plenty of Avs players through history that aren't. It's easy to put them on a pedestal just because you like the team.

I do expect them to be professional. That's the job. Being humble and friendly towards everyone isn't.

 

[dahrougem2]

I stand by my source, he has some growing up to do.

Cool, which 19 year old making almost four million dollars a year doesn't have some growing up to do?

Tyler Seguin had "some growing up to do" too. Doesn't really affect him on the ice since he's still a major party animal.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Duchene had some maturity issues at that age too, and he turned out just fine. Every 19 year old has growing up to do. That's hardly an attitude issue.

 

[R S]

I stand by my source, he has some growing up to do.

Don't worry. I suggested the same thing about him prior to the 2013 draft and had a direct source that knew him and had spent a decent amount of time with him. I got shat on as well.

With that being said, he's a young kid and a millionaire. Maturity is usually an issue foe 98% of them....Crosby is a rare case in that sense.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Don't worry. I suggested the same thing about him prior to the 2013 draft and had a direct source that knew him and had spent a decent amount of time with him. I got shat on as well.

With that being said, he's a young kid and a millionaire. Maturity is usually an issue foe 98% of them....Crosby is a rare case in that sense.

and crosby had on-ice maturity issues.

 

[Avs71]

Jonathan Toews is considered an ******* around Winnipeg, was busted for underage drinking, and said the f-bomb on TSN. And he is considered one of the best character guys in the NHL.

I'm sure everywhere, about every NHL player, there is someone who "knows" them and thinks they're immature/arrogant/etc.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Jonathan Toews is considered an ******* around Winnipeg, was busted for underage drinking, and said the f-bomb on TSN. And he is considered one of the best character guys in the NHL.

I'm sure everywhere, about every NHL player, there is someone who "knows" them and thinks they're immature/arrogant/etc.

Cmon man. Underage drinking? 98% of us on here did that and cursing on TSN after winning gold. I would have done that same with Avsboy. I dont think those things are character flaws. If Toews was running around the Peg wearing a viking helmet and telling everyone to put their balls on the table then I might question his character but not cursing and drinking.

 

[avsfan09]

Don't worry. I suggested the same thing about him prior to the 2013 draft and had a direct source that knew him and had spent a decent amount of time with him. I got shat on as well.

With that being said, he's a young kid and a millionaire. Maturity is usually an issue foe 98% of them....Crosby is a rare case in that sense.

Did this source give you any examples? If it's just immaturity that's one thing but attitude issues can have an effect on the team. That said he seems to get along well with teammates.

 

[Foppa2118]

"Sources" love claiming young hockey players have ego/attitude problems because of the one or two times they saw them act different than they were expecting. Lots of jealousy at the lower levels too. Kids who have to work for every inch because they're not as naturally talented see a highly touted first round pick in a bad mood or something (unheard of for a teenager I know) and they label them as having "attitude problems." Put a spotlight on 90% of 17 year olds and watch how many "moments" they're not acting perfect.

Patrick Kane comes off sometimes like he might have an obnoxious attitude and huge ego, but it hasn't stopped the Hawks from winning 2 cups with him, or from 29 other teams wishing they could have drafted him. These things get blown out of proportion constantly.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I remember when there were people coming out and saying that McDavid had a big ego/bad attitude. High profile young players seem to get marked with that.

 

[Avs71]

Cmon man. Underage drinking? 98% of us on here did that and cursing on TSN after winning gold. I would have done that same with Avsboy. I dont think those things are character flaws. If Toews was running around the Peg wearing a viking helmet and telling everyone to put their balls on the table then I might question his character but not cursing and drinking.

This is exactly my point... I'm sure half the time it's not even bad. It's just so easy to bad mouth famous people, regardless how distant your "knowing" them is.

And it's actually more going around Winnipeg telling people who come up to him to "**** off." He's never said it to me, but that's just what my sources have said.

 

[agentblack]

Was reading Eichel nominated for hobey baker and they referenced Paul Kariya as the last freshman that won it

i had no idea he torched the NCAA this badly, 100 pts in 39 games?!

 

[Matheus]

NO thanks my propose is something around Duch + 2016 2nd

 

[dahrougem2]

NO thanks my propose is something around Duch + 2016 2nd

Nothing but MacKinnon+ gets McDavid

 

[R S]

Did this source give you any examples? If it's just immaturity that's one thing but attitude issues can have an effect on the team. That said he seems to get along well with teammates.

"Sources" love claiming young hockey players have ego/attitude problems because of the one or two times they saw them act different than they were expecting. Lots of jealousy at the lower levels too. Kids who have to work for every inch because they're not as naturally talented see a highly touted first round pick in a bad mood or something (unheard of for a teenager I know) and they label them as having "attitude problems." Put a spotlight on 90% of 17 year olds and watch how many "moments" they're not acting perfect.

Source was someone within Hockey Canada that had worked alongside MacKinnon at a few major events, spending weeks at a time with him.

It was more ego "I'm better than you", entitlement-type of stuff more than anything.

Not suggesting it's still a problem now. A 17 year old is often a completely different person by the time they're 20.

 

[agentblack]

Pretty sure all top picks think they are and know better than their teammates and coaches...most of the time they arent wrong

but they all hit NHL reality and find out real quick they aint so hot
The best ones grow up and out of it
the busts are probably the ones that remained stubborn and arrogant

 

[Avsboy]

Most 19 year old males don't think before doing things. MacKinnon will be fine in the long run.

 

[Foppa2118]

It was more ego "I'm better than you", entitlement-type of stuff more than anything.

Not suggesting it's still a problem now. A 17 year old is often a completely different person by the time they're 20.

And if that's the case, I think those things are more likely a result of the situation rather than MacKinnon's character. Being a teenager under the spotlight, with tons of fans and media throwing adoration at you, and then putting a mic and a camera in front of you all the time, and asking that same teenager to balance his confidence in his abilities with being humble so you can judge him on it. There's bound to be a few less than stellar moments for these kid phenom types.

These same things have been said about most of the top picks over the years. RNH, Yakupov, Taylor Hall, Pat Kane, I'm sure someone had a bad impression of Crosby as well thinking he thought he was better than everyone too. I feel like I've heard similar rumors about Jones and Drouin as well. A lot of these kids seem to have at least a little sense of entitlement these days. Somewhere along the line there was someone in Hockey Canada, or the US development program, or in junior, or in Europe that spent a couple days or a week here and there around these phenoms and didn't get a great impression from the kid.

 

[Miri]

Some of you people have no sense of loyalty. Everyone was raving about drafting MacKinnon 2 years ago, but now a newer, shinier toy pops up, you would instantly swap him?

I guess you would have traded Sakic for whoever was better than him back in the day?

Its true the players do come and go and its the organisation/team who do you cheer for. But the players are the face of that organisation, they do matter. If we hypothetically swapped our young guns (Duchene, MacK, Landy, OReilly) for say Dallas young guns (Seguin, Benn, Nichuskin, etc..), would you still feel like cheering for Colorado? I would feel like cheering for Dallas. Regardless of the uniforms they wear...

There is not even any guarantee McDavid will become better player then MacK. Everything so far is based on comparison of their junior numbers and future projections...

 

[InjuredChoker]

Some of you people have no sense of loyalty. Everyone was raving about drafting MacKinnon 2 years ago, but now a newer, shinier toy pops up, you would instantly swap him?

I guess you would have traded Sakic for whoever was better than him back in the day?

Its true the players do come and go and its the organisation/team who do you cheer for. But the players are the face of that organisation, they do matter. If we hypothetically swapped our young guns (Duchene, MacK, Landy, OReilly) for say Dallas young guns (Seguin, Benn, Nichuskin, etc..), would you still feel like cheering for Colorado? I would feel like cheering for Dallas. Regardless of the uniforms they wear...

There is not even any guarantee McDavid will become better player then MacK. Everything so far is based on comparison of their junior numbers and future projections...

mack has been with the team for 2 years. not the same situation as it was with sakic... even with the signed NYR offer sheet..

nothing is ever guaranteed. the odds are that mcdavid will be better than mack.

i actually watch a lot of dallas and like those guys so it wouldn't hurt me as much others and i'd still probably be avs fan even if i wouldn't like it. that's actually a good, legit question.

 

[Tweaky]

Some of you people have no sense of loyalty. Everyone was raving about drafting MacKinnon 2 years ago, but now a newer, shinier toy pops up, you would instantly swap him?

I guess you would have traded Sakic for whoever was better than him back in the day?

Its true the players do come and go and its the organisation/team who do you cheer for. But the players are the face of that organisation, they do matter. If we hypothetically swapped our young guns (Duchene, MacK, Landy, OReilly) for say Dallas young guns (Seguin, Benn, Nichuskin, etc..), would you still feel like cheering for Colorado? I would feel like cheering for Dallas. Regardless of the uniforms they wear...

There is not even any guarantee McDavid will become better player then MacK. Everything so far is based on comparison of their junior numbers and future projections...

As you said, I love the players, but I cheer for the team. If the players change (and they do, every year there are different ones), I still cheer for the teams.

When my favorite player of all time, Forsberg, left as a free gaent casualty of the salary cap, I still loved him, and rooted for him, but if the Avs played Philly or Nashville while he was there, I cheered against his team the whole time (14 Jan 2006, Avs beat PHI 4-3 in OT, Foppa with 1G 1A, almost perfect outcome). Same with Foote. Same with Lappy, Blake, Drury, Tanguay, Yelle, Hinote and so on.

If there was a wholesale swap like you suggest, it might be a bit easier to root for another team, but never against the Avs. And even in the case of Foote in CBJ, I did root for them, as at the time, the were an underdog team, and now had a player I loved to go along with one I liked in Nash. But a vague hope that they did well was all it ever amounted to.


As for the idea of swapping Sakic back in the day...good question. The equivalent would be Sakic for Lindros....the same kind of hype and expectation for Lindros as McDavid, and at the time, Sakic had a couple 100pt seasons already, so was no slouch. Yes, this is a circular argument, as we actually traded Lindros AWAY, for Forsberg+ . But had the Nords not tanked into Lindros, and the whiney little (err, big) git hadn't refused to play for them, trading a somewhat proven Sakic 3 years into his career for the potential of Lindros would have been a hard offer to turn down. Very happy with the way it turned out though.

 

[member 116861]

Some of you people have no sense of loyalty. Everyone was raving about drafting MacKinnon 2 years ago, but now a newer, shinier toy pops up, you would instantly swap him?

I guess you would have traded Sakic for whoever was better than him back in the day?

Its true the players do come and go and its the organisation/team who do you cheer for. But the players are the face of that organisation, they do matter. If we hypothetically swapped our young guns (Duchene, MacK, Landy, OReilly) for say Dallas young guns (Seguin, Benn, Nichuskin, etc..), would you still feel like cheering for Colorado? I would feel like cheering for Dallas. Regardless of the uniforms they wear...

There is not even any guarantee McDavid will become better player then MacK. Everything so far is based on comparison of their junior numbers and future projections...

I cheer for the team and not the players. Obviously you grow to love a lot of the players (Landy, EJ, Barrie) and hate some (Guenin, Cliche, ROR). Paul Stastny was my favourite player in the league and still might be my favourite but I wish him nothing but the worst and will never cheer for him again.

 

[ABasin]

Some of you people have no sense of loyalty. Everyone was raving about drafting MacKinnon 2 years ago, but now a newer, shinier toy pops up, you would instantly swap him?

Well first of all, my loyalty is to the team, not the individual players on the team. (EDIT: BrickAHL beat me to it)

Second, I probably wouldn't trade MacKinnon for any single non-NHL prospect. MacKinnon has terrific upside, and even if it doesn't match that of a generational player like Crosby, I don't think I'd take the risk of moving a much more known NHL quantity with great upside for a non-NHL quantity.

I guess you would have traded Sakic for whoever was better than him back in the day?

Um…...

If we hypothetically swapped our young guns (Duchene, MacK, Landy, OReilly) for say Dallas young guns (Seguin, Benn, Nichuskin, etc..), would you still feel like cheering for Colorado?

Of course.

There is not even any guarantee McDavid will become better player then MacK. Everything so far is based on comparison of their junior numbers and future projections...

Agreed. Always a risky proposition.

 

[Miri]

Well, i guess our views on this thing somewhat differ. While i understand the team comes for you first, since it does for me too, i cant shake the feeling you would part with our own players way too easily - for my own taste.

However i admit i may be somewhat hypocritical in this regard, since i guess i would not oppose losing some of our Dmen at expense of better players... but i certainly dont like the idea of losing anyone of our core group, definitely not until its obvious we are not going to win anything with them...

Regarding Stastny, i was totally unhappy about losing him and i hated how some people wanted him gone so badly. We basically replaced him with Iggy, who was indeed great for us, and great player throughout his entire career, but i would still choose Stastny over him any day of the week. Cause he was already our own player and was drafted by this organisation. In the end he signed with Blues for one more year and 1,5 million than Iggy signed with us...perhaps we could have had him for 0,5 million less than Blues, you never know... could we really not afford him under such circumstances?

Not to mention i believe we broke the chemistry of our top six and that was the reason why it suffered for a big part of season. With him in the line-up, we could still be playing MacK as a winger and not in a position he was not ready for yet, thus maybe softening his slump, and then keep OReilly on Duchene´s wing...
Granted we are not still a Cup team, cause of the defence, but we might have been in play-off, if our top-six played like a top-six consistently since the season started.