MacDermid-Need or Liability

[kingsholygrail]

Who is the director of this stage show? Do they run through a dress rehearsal the day before?

The term "staged fight" is stupid. What's worse is that it seems to be applied whenever a tough guy gets into a fight that doesn't take place immediately following a big hit or cheap shot. Even then, if two HW's fight, many call it "staged".

The audio is clear as day in the last MacDermid fight: bench is shouting and banging their sticks even before a punch is thrown. They don't seem to think it is staged and the only ones that disparage it are those with zero skin in the game.

@bland Agree that he has been better with the physicality lately. I'm obviously a fan of his but I have been down on his play more this season than in year's past because he hasn't been lining guys up at the blueline and taking runs at key players. He has to provide that or else he should play even less than he does now. His hitting game goes much farther to keep team's honest than his fighting skills: he has KO'd more guys with hits than he has with fists.

@cyclones22 It's just a much different game than when Regher was putting guys in the tunnel of death by grabbing them before the goal line and driving them into the corner glass. Hell, I feel like the game was called different during Regher's final years but the refs kind of looked the other way on him and let him keep playing the same way. If this was 10 years ago, MacD is abusing guys in front of the net but they will call the slightest stuff now. That's why he has to be looking for those big hits and needs to connect on them from time-to-time.

You mean like how Gabriel was talking to media about how he's expecting to fight MacD several days before the game? Yeah, staged fight. It didn't do anything for the Kings. His presence on the team has never stopped an opponent from taking cheap shots. We bitch about cheap shots every single game. I like fighting as an expression of the passions of the game, but I'm not a fan of pre-arranged crap. He reminds me of Kevin Westgarth.

 

[LAKings88]

You mean like how Gabriel was talking to media about how he's expecting to fight MacD several days before the game? Yeah, staged fight. It didn't do anything for the Kings. His presence on the team has never stopped an opponent from taking cheap shots. We bitch about cheap shots every single game. I like fighting as an expression of the passions of the game, but I'm not a fan of pre-arranged crap. He reminds me of Kevin Westgarth.

I feel like Reaves is toned down around MacD.

 

[King'sPawn]

He's a 6/7 defenseman, preferrably with limited minutes as the team gets better. For the role he serves, he's more of a need than a liability. If he's tasked with top 4 minutes, without a better development of sense and skills, he'd be more of a liability than a need.

 

[Reaper45]

You mean like how Gabriel was talking to media about how he's expecting to fight MacD several days before the game? Yeah, staged fight. It didn't do anything for the Kings. His presence on the team has never stopped an opponent from taking cheap shots. We bitch about cheap shots every single game. I like fighting as an expression of the passions of the game, but I'm not a fan of pre-arranged crap. He reminds me of Kevin Westgarth.

There literary no way you could’ve played Westgarth 15 minutes a night. He’d be a -4 every game.

 

[cyclones22]

I would agree for the most part, but he has been noticably much more aggressive over the past few games.

Grundstrom agrees.

 

[Jericho111091]

He's a 6/7, he's fine for the role he fills. Can be frustrating at times but that's really the team as a whole not just him.

 

[BigKing]

You mean like how Gabriel was talking to media about how he's expecting to fight MacD several days before the game? Yeah, staged fight. It didn't do anything for the Kings. His presence on the team has never stopped an opponent from taking cheap shots. We bitch about cheap shots every single game. I like fighting as an expression of the passions of the game, but I'm not a fan of pre-arranged crap. He reminds me of Kevin Westgarth.

Takes two to tango. Just because some guy says he expects to fight a guy days before a game doesn't mean it is "staged".

Gabriel ran his mouth and "patrolled the red line" pre-game, inciting a response from MacDermid. That is an expression of the passion of the game: it just didn't happen during the 60 minutes of game clock.

As for not doing anything for the Kings, I can look at it in the literal sense like you are as well and say the following: All of Kopitar, Doughty and Quick's high-end hockey skills didn't do anything for the Kings that night either.

Let's be honest here: the fights generally don't do anything for you. That's fine. Herby is a pretty big no "staged fights" guy and I really respect his opinion as I do yours. Players pretty much universally say otherwise though so I think I'm going to keep on believing that it has a place and a purpose.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

At even strength, MacDermid has been on the ice for 10 goals for and 9 goals against the Kings while Cal Petersen is on the ice, but 1 goal for and 10 goals against while Jonathan Quick is in net (in 69 minutes!). Wrap your head around that last stat.

So, if JQ starts, Mac sits. If we “need” some muscle in lineup, then start Cal and Mac. Issue solved.

 

[KopitarFAN]

I have no issue with MacD as the 7th defenseman. The Kings need a physical guy to prevent other teams taking liberties. This is something the younger players on the team don't have yet.

He's also insurance in case something happens to Maatta. MacD is at 64 games played and 70 is the min. requirement for the expansion draft.

70 was pro-rated down to 54, accounting for the lost ~35 games over 2 seasons.

 

[ru4reals]

Just for smacking Gabriela in the eye yesterday I'm going to go with need. But only for Vegas and San Jose (apparently now). Every other team he can watch from the locker room.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I like MacDermid in a limited capacity and when he's playing to his strengths. Given how little he plays, him being a liability and on the ice for numerous goals against does not reflect well on his play. He averages about 13 minutes of ice time, and he's being noticed a lot for the wrong reasons.

Believe it or not, his possession numbers were pretty respectable the previous two years, but it's on the wrong side this season. What's also noticeable is that in previous years, he was being protected with less defensive zone starts, but this year it's gone up considerably from 42% d-zone starts to 50% starts in his end. That's probably a big reason why we see him trapped in his own end of the ice quite often.

 

[Schmooley]

As for not doing anything for the Kings, I can look at it in the literal sense like you are as well and say the following: All of Kopitar, Doughty and Quick's high-end hockey skills didn't do anything for the Kings that night either.

Liability means hes hurting the team. When Doughty and Kopitar arent doing anything they arent negatively affecting the team. If MacDermid was a neutral player outside of his physical play it would not be an issue. I know you like him but he makes a mistake almost every shift. It sometimes leads to direct goals against, or sometimes increased time in the d-zone and more momentum to the other team. If you think its worth the negatives thats fine. I dont think theres a right or wrong answer to the question on whether hes a need or liability on a rebuilding team. If they were trying to win the answer would be liability unless the rest of the team was so good that they could make his mistakes no big deal.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Just seems like he's out there too much. I don't know if that's overplaying him or gets caught in situations where he gets stuck out there. Not sure.

 

[Herby]

He is to slow to effectively play defense in the NHL, he would have been more useful 25 years ago when the bruising power forwards caused huge matchup problems, now it's the extraordinary skaters like McDavid and MacKinnon.

If the Kings want his toughness would it be the end of the world to put him on the 4th line for certain games where they feel they need that element?

 

[LAKings88]

Changed my vote. Over MacDermid.

 

[Bandit]

The Kings need him to not be a liability. Tough shit Kings.

 

[Master Yoda]

At even strength, MacDermid has been on the ice for 10 goals for and 9 goals against the Kings while Cal Petersen is on the ice, but 1 goal for and 10 goals against while Jonathan Quick is in net (in 69 minutes!). Wrap your head around that last stat.

way to jinx it

 

[Little Psycho]

Can I take back my vote?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'd like to change my vote to need, as the Kings will need to give him more ice time in order to secure a high draft selection in the upcoming draft.

 

[cyclones22]

Can my vote count twice?

 

[Token]

The vote is rigged.

Trick question.

Dermy is the best we had on the left side in the AHL parts bin at the time.

 

[BigKing]

I'd like to change my vote to need, as the Kings will need to give him more ice time in order to secure a high draft selection in the upcoming draft.

All part of the plan.

As much as I like the guy, I'd be upset that he is playing if I actually cared about making the playoffs this season so I understand everyone's frustration. Problem is that playing Clague or Strand puts more eyes on them for Seattle and it also doesn't mean this team makes the playoffs: probably just helps them get a worse draft pick while putting eyes on them.

Halfway point of the season:

2008-09: 17-18-6

2020-21: 13-13-6

All going as planned. We just need to see the young guys up in the NHL continue to progress, inject a couple of Ontario guys and then have Blake make a couple of NHL transactions and they can probably turn some of these trash losses and those OTLs into some W's and make the playoffs next season.

 

[Lt Dan]

All part of the plan.

Halfway point of the season:
2008-09: 17-18-6
2020-21: 13-13-6
All going as planned. We just need to see the young guys up in the NHL continue to progress, inject a couple of Ontario guys and then have Blake make a couple of NHL transactions and they can probably turn some of these trash losses and those OTLs into some W's and make the playoffs next season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I was gonna say 'how much do they hate clague that he hasn't been back' but I like BigKing's theory better

 

[BigKing]

This season is all about having watchable NHL hockey again while subscribing to the AHL package so you can get even more hockey and watch all these dudes we are so excited about.

It's been pretty solid so far, IMO. I'm hoping that we can attend games again for next season and also have legit playoff expectations heading into it.