Proposal: M. Stone to Flames To Ottawa M. Tkachuk

[SUX2BU]

No

 

[super6646]

How about michael stone for brady tkachuk?

I would've been more open minded to these LW and RW swaps before the season, but it doesn't make sense now that our RW depth has improved.

 

[Volica]

Stones an awesome player, but we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg with Chucky.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Stones an awesome player, but we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg with Chucky.

This.

I would love to have Stone on our team. But not at the cost of Tkachuk.

Matthew was on pace for almost 60 points despite Frolik dropping from 45 to 25 points, and Backlund stepping back a bit offensively as well. We also had the third worst PP in the league. Combine that with ridiculously good two way play for his age, it's really hard to want to move him.

Expecting big things from him this year, especially with the offensive additions the Flames have added.

 

[Baxterman]

Huge pass from this Flames fan.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Definitely not a bad one for one proposal. I think Calgary ultimately passes.

 

[FanTheFlames]

Tkachuk brings a priceless element that stone doesnt and thats his never ending drive to mentally destroy the other team. I bet you ask a player like doughty or burns what they think about playing against tkachuk and they will give you the type of answer your team loves to hear. Hes a warrior type player who will do whatever to whoever to win. This type of player becomes impactful captains for teams which is something stone doesnt bring.

 

[treple13]

Homer talking, but I think Tkachuk ends up better than Stone. He started to show that during the second half of the year while his two linemates were ridiculously snakebitten. People need to remember Tkachuk was basically carrying Calgary's shutdown line.

Stone is better now, but Tkachuk isn't a UFA, is younger and likely cheaper on his next contract.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Assuming Stone extends long term in Ottawa, I think this is a proposal where both sides probably would rather keep their guy.

With Ottawa being a budget team, there might be a team building argument in favour of getting the young (cheaper) RFA.

 

[blankall]

Flames say F no:

1. Leaving playing ability aside, the contracts are night and day in terms of value. One is cost controlled. The other is an upcoming UFA.
2. Tkachuk is much younger. Mark Stone is 26 and in his prime now, but in 3 years, he'll likely be starting to decline.
3. Stone has only one season that sets him apart from Tkachuk offensively. Will he be able to repeat?
4. Tkachuk is likely to get better. This year he'll have better linemates. If he plays a whole season like he played the 2nd half of last season, he'll be a 70+ point player.
5. Tkachuk adds his pest and physical game, which is valuable in its own right.

I'm sorry Ottawa, but you are not salvaging an asset like Tkachuk out of the Stone contract. Stone is a great player but also an upcoming UFA. Would love to have Stone on my team, but not at the price of Tkachuk.

 

[CraigsList]

This is absolutely terrible for the flames

 

[Bounces R Way]

It was a no to begin with but with Stone being a UFA after this year it becomes an incredibly easy no.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Tkachuk turns 21 in December, Stone turns 27 in May.

Stone is 5 years and 7 months older than Tkachuk, which when you round to the nearest year is 6 years.

Yeah you right I was doing some ass backwards math

 

[Lunatik]

I don't think the Flames should do this trade due to cap/age, but saying MT is gonna be as good in one of the best wingers in the league in 1-2 years is a bit of a hyperbole IMO.

Why is it hyperbole?

Mark Stone's best season is 26 goals (0.325 per game) and 64 points (0.800 per game)
Matthew Tkachuk's last season had 24 goals (0.353 per game) and 49 points (0.721 per game)

Tkachuk is also a line driver on one of the better defensive and possession lines in the league.

Obviously, Tkachuk needs to keep himself from being suspended and needs to stay healthy, while continuing his development. But it's not exactly hyperbole to suggest can play a full season and improve his point per game pace by 0.08 points per game (6-7 points over a full season), while continuing to improve his defensive game.

 

[cj19]

This is absolutely terrible for the flames

What if it was,,,

to Ottawa
M. Tkachuk
D. Dube
O. Kylington

to Flames
M. Stone
L. Browm
A. Formenton

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Strange seeing all these no answers. Stone would be the best player on cgy

 

[Seanaconda]

Can’t see stone agreeing to a sign and trade but if they did have the same contracts it would be pretty fair

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Strange seeing all these no answers. Stone would be the best player on cgy

We will wait patiently for to justify this take, since the onus falls on you to do so, for reasons that should be obvious.

 

[Seanaconda]

Why is it hyperbole?

Mark Stone's best season is 26 goals (0.325 per game) and 64 points (0.800 per game)
Matthew Tkachuk's last season had 24 goals (0.353 per game) and 49 points (0.721 per game)

Tkachuk is also a line driver on one of the better defensive and possession lines in the league.

Obviously, Tkachuk needs to keep himself from being suspended and needs to stay healthy, while continuing his development. But it's not exactly hyperbole to suggest can play a full season and improve his point per game pace by 0.08 points per game (6-7 points over a full season), while continuing to improve his defensive game.

If we are going to use ppg why not use the last one where stone was over Ppg ? Mark stone best season 62 points in 58 games

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Calgary fans would rather trade you their firstborn children than move Tkachuk

That's correct, you can always make new children, but a power forward is a rare commodity.

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

We will wait patiently for to justify this take, since the onus falls on you to do so, for reasons that should be obvious.

Gladly
The flames best player is J.G. I am hoping you agree.
Best means on a per game basis. If you want to bring in raw numbers, you are now arguing value; therefore, I will mainly use rate stats. I will use a two year sample as, from what i have read, it is the most predictive.
Basic Off
points per 82 over the last 2 years
J.G : 78 points
M.S : 74 points
So johnny has a slight edge; however, johnny plays with S.M, and he is better than any forward Stone has ever played with. Stone does play with ek, but cgy has a much DEF as whole. If ek isn't on the ice, Stone is playing with two pylons.
So is that 4 point difference really that impressive?

Basic Def
I could pull up stats, or just check out the best defensive winger thread, where people from every fan base are selecting Stone.
So if stone is better at d, and they score same rate, who is better?

Fancy stats
I added up 3 different WAR/GAR models , each over the last two years, and here are the results
M.S 81.08
J.G 70.53
Stone is better. You are supposed to look at these number in ranges, but Stone is better by greater than 10.

eye test
I live in northern ab. I watch the flames a fair amount. My eye test says they are about equal; however, johnny plays a much more traditional eye test game, which is why using stats is nice.

 

[TMLeafs17]

Easy pass from the Flames

 

[Lunatik]

If we are going to use ppg why not use the last one where stone was over Ppg ? Mark stone best season 62 points in 58 games

fair enough, I started by going with their best total and then extrapolated without looking at other seasons. But regardless, I still don't think it's ridiculous for someone to think Tkachuk could reach that level.

 

[CraigsList]

What if it was,,,

to Ottawa
M. Tkachuk
D. Dube
O. Kylington

to Flames
M. Stone
L. Browm
A. Formenton

Congrats, it’s still terrible for the Flames.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

neutral fan - I think Calgary would decline. Stone is a currently better player, but Tkachuk would have to completely stagnate at 20 years old to not end up being a very comparable player and he comes with the benefit of more years of prime and the cost/control advantages of ELC and RFA years

Stone just went ppg and is the best defensive winger in the NHL. If stone can replicate his success, Tkachuk isn't even in the discussion of comparable.
Cgy says no due to age and contract though.