M-A Fleury sent down to the AHL... what you say?

[Claypool_*]

He was overhyped, I'm not making this up, don't get me wrong the kid is a very talented goalie and has a great potential but the only time where he shinned and was above other players from the 03 draft was during the WJC, tha's what boosted his stock, ever since then guys like Zherdev, Staal, Phaneuf, and so on have passed him....

I'm pretty sure if they re-did the draft right now that the Penguins would still pick MAF first overall.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Fleury sucks and Pitsberg is broke.

 

[Michael Morbid]

I think this probably happened because Mario only has room at his house for one franchise player, well other than himself of course, so Fleury's the odd man out when Crosby came to town.

Lemieux's bed is too small for Crosby & Fleury.

 

[Birko19]

I'm pretty sure if they re-did the draft right now that the Penguins would still pick MAF first overall.

Maybe, that still does't mean Fleury is the best player of the draft today, hold a poll and see for yourself.

On the other hand, I'm not too sure if they would take Fleury, a lot of Gm's throw this none sense on how they would take the same player they drafted 1st overall again if the draft was to take place today. I don't know who it was, I think it was Atlanta's Gm who said he would take Stefan all over again in 99, crap like that is only said to make the player feel good, but you know if he knew the outcome of the draft he would take Havlat in a heart beat.

Don't worry, Fleury might turn out the best from that year, but in the mean time he's far from it.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

hold a poll and see for yourself.

Yes, irrefutable proof! Take that.

File it under "compelling evidence" along with all of papabear's polls.

 

[Claypool_*]

Maybe, that still does't mean Fleury is the best player of the draft today, hold a poll and see for yourself.

yes because internet polls on a site's message board from the opinion of people who've never had any experience in scouting prospects let alone drafting them is the proof we need here to answer the topic at hand.

 

[Birko19]

Yes, irrefutable proof! Take that.

File it under "compelling evidence" along with all of papabear's polls.

I will once it's done

 

[Birko19]

yes because internet polls on a site's message board from the opinion of people who've never had any experience in scouting prospects let alone drafting them is the proof we need here to answer the topic at hand.

It does't matter if you have the best scouts in the world scouting, sometimes scouts could look like asses (Daigle), other times they could look brilliant (Demitra, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Alfredsson, so on).....

You're not saying it, but from what you sound like it seems to me that you think Fluery is the best player of the 2003 draft (Which looks to be like Penguin Homerism that can be detected from your avatar), notice how I did say he might be the best someday, but today he's clearly not the best, it does't take a scout to figure it out.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

it does't take a scout to figure it out.

Absolutely bang on the head. What we need is a good 'ol HF poll to get to the bottom of this mystery.

 

[Claypool_*]

You're not saying it, but from what you sound like it seems to me that you think Fluery is the best player of the 2003 draft (Which looks to be like Penguin Homerism that can be detected from your avatar), notice how I did say he might be the best someday, but today he's clearly not the best, it does't take a scout to figure it out.

Actually I'm a Wings fan, but thanks. Fleury right now may not be the best in the draft but the Penguins would still pick him again.

 

[Birko19]

Actually I'm a Wings fan, but thanks. Fleury right now may not be the best in the draft but the Penguins would still pick him again.

I have a hard time believing that your'e a Wings fan but I got something you should hear:

Howard > Fleury

 

[Taxman]

I have doubts that the Pens would pick Fleury first overall if the draft were redone tomorrow. I have a feeling they would pick someone else.

 

[clefty]

I have doubts that the Pens would pick Fleury first overall if the draft were redone tomorrow.

I betcha they would.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

I betcha they would.

I'm in for $5

 

[King'sPawn]

Maybe, that still does't mean Fleury is the best player of the draft today, hold a poll and see for yourself.

A poll will reveal nothing.

a) goalies take longer to develop... many picks are going to look better right now.
b) deciding the best player of the draft two years afterwards is Pejorative Slured, not to mention the fact that we've only had one full NHL season since the draft.
c) out of the 292 players drafted, any one of us have probably seen 10-20. It'll take a long time before anyone can make an informed opinion of who is the best player of the draft (not that it'll stop us from forming opinions... but basing an argument on several uninformed opinions doesn't help the cause).

For what it's worth, I can't say I like what I've read about Fleury (I never said I was perfect and don't make uninformed opinions )... but I'm not here to debate whether or not Fleury was a good pick. I do, however, disagree with the idea of using a poll to backup your argument. It's also premature to be making this judgment of who the best pick of the draft is.

Edit: and I'll add that I think the Penguins would pick Fleury again.

And I'm a Kings fan, to eliminate any accusations of homerism or bias

 

[Taxman]

Fleury gave up some weak goals the last preseason game vs the Caps. That is something he continues to do. He has been nothing but a disappointment since the first month of the NHL 2 years ago. Again, I have a feeling the Pens have soured on Fleury a bit by now and would take someone else with the first pick if the draft were redone tomorrow.

 

[Birko19]

A poll will reveal nothing.

a) goalies take longer to develop... many picks are going to look better right now.
b) deciding the best player of the draft two years afterwards is Pejorative Slured, not to mention the fact that we've only had one full NHL season since the draft.
c) out of the 292 players drafted, any one of us have probably seen 10-20. It'll take a long time before anyone can make an informed opinion of who is the best player of the draft (not that it'll stop us from forming opinions... but basing an argument on several uninformed opinions doesn't help the cause).

For what it's worth, I can't say I like what I've read about Fleury (I never said I was perfect and don't make uninformed opinions )... but I'm not here to debate whether or not Fleury was a good pick. I do, however, disagree with the idea of using a poll to backup your argument. It's also premature to be making this judgment of who the best pick of the draft is.

Edit: and I'll add that I think the Penguins would pick Fleury again.

And I'm a Kings fan, to eliminate any accusations of homerism or bias

I'm not disagreeing that goalies take longer to develop, nor have I said Fleury will not be the best (Read my posts, I said he might some day be best, who knows), but as of today he's not the best player of that draft, I'm not saying these are the final resultes but other players clearly passed him in terms of being better at the moment.

As for the poll, well I kinda dished out the comment, it might not prove much but it's still the opinion of the majority.

 

[clefty]

Fleury gave up some weak goals the last preseason game vs the Caps. That is something he continues to do.

Name for me a 20 year old goaltender who doesn't make mistakes and give up bad goals.

He has been nothing but a disappointment since the first month of the NHL 2 years ago. Again, I have a feeling the Pens have soured on Fleury a bit by now and would take someone else with the first pick if the draft were redone tomorrow.

Thats what you think. However the Penguins brass, ie the people that matter, have nothing but high hopes for him and they like what they have.

 

[Vipers]

Perfect thing for MAF. He will keep 60-65 games in AHL. Next year will come to learn NHL, maybe win the job and in 2 years when Thibault's contract is over, he will be ready for NHL duties as # 1.

Excellent decision to not burning again a young prodige.

 

[flambers]

This is interesting on a couple of levels. The Pens clearly didn't want to pay his ridiculous bonuses, but at the same token, I heard he struggled in camp.

Hes a tremendous talent, theres no doubt there. I whatched the Ottawa pre-season game and his only problem is that he is HYPER- agressive, sliding across the crease and over-playing the shooter. Another year in the AHL will do him some good, if he can learn to be patient then he should be a shoo in on next years roster.

What are everyone elses thoughts on the pens goaltending prodigy?

Fleury is still a really young goalie, it takes most guys a few years to be ready for the NHL. I think its a good move to give him another year in AHL.

 

[Liquidrage*]

Name for me a 20 year old goaltender who doesn't make mistakes and give up bad goals.

It's not that. In the AHL compared to other goalies his same age, he did not look at good.

Lehtonen looked much better in the AHL at the same age. So did Toivonen.



Personally, I'd be shocked if MAF went 1st overall if the 2003 draft was done over. He is certainly not a bust at this point. But he hasn't dominated like a few other of his peers have.

Of course we'll never know so it's not worth arguing over.

 

[Steve Latin*]

It's not that. In the AHL compared to other goalies his same age, he did not look at good.

Lehtonen looked much better in the AHL at the same age. So did Toivonen.



Personally, I'd be shocked if MAF went 1st overall if the 2003 draft was done over. He is certainly not a bust at this point. But he hasn't dominated like a few other of his peers have.

Of course we'll never know so it's not worth arguing over.

Fleury has better raw skills and athleticism than both those goalies. His quickness is exceptional. Yet, he still has problems with positioning and confidence.

Ken Dryden was quoted as saying that both his wife and his children have better reflexes than him, but he's still in the HOF. So, for me, what it comes down to is if Fleury can "develop" the poise he needs. If he does, I have no doubt that he can be the best netminder in the league. If he doesn't, he very well may be a career minor leaguer ... he's a hit or miss prospect.

That said, Patrick's stated strategy was to build from the net out ... I think that's a solid strategy, but unfortunately the "bust ratio" of goalies is much higher than that of skaters.

So, who is head and shoulders above MAF? Staal? Horton? These guys have had decent stints, but I've seen nothing to indicate that they'll be perennial (sp?) All-Stars. Phaneuf? Please, he hasn't even played an NHL game yet. The only player you can really make an argument for is Zherdev. He's been great in a short NHL stint, but keep in mind his streakiness is what caused him to drop in the draft in the first place. There's no guarantee he's going to be consistent in the NHL, and consistency is what separates guys like Brian Savage and Alexei Morozov from guys like Milan Hejduk and Patrik Elias.

 

[Debrincat93]

i got him on a keeper league... i think a year more in the AHL will do him good. I think hell improve his numbers greately. You gotta remember something, his team aint thrilling infront of him, the pens team last year had a lot of AHLers on it taking away from fleury. Let the kid play as a 20 yr old or 21 yr old, hell do wonders

 

[Jacob]

Fleury gave up some weak goals the last preseason game vs the Caps.

Caron played in that game.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I am one who thinks that if the draft was re-held that he would not go first overall either.

I had Zherdev ranked above him and still do to this day. Zherdev will be a monster in the NHL, IMO.

I would rank Suter, Staal, Zherdev, Vanek, Phaneuf, and possibly Horton or Carter above him or at least on par with him at this point if the draft was re-done.

And to the poster a few posts up -- you think he has more talent than Lehtonen? And the point about NHL games: Yes, they haven't played them or only in stints but Fleury was pretty bad in the NHL and the other players "stints" were undoubtedly better.