News: Luongo retires, Vancouver hit with cap recapture penalty

[GAGLine]

Luongo is 40 years old right now.

Contract ends 2021/2022 making him what, 42-43 years old.

Here is a list of the 18 goalies that played past the age of 40 in the NHL:
Ranking All 18 NHL Goalies Who Played Past The Age Of 40

Does that quell the argument that both Vancouver and Luongo knew he would NEVER play in the league for the entirety of his contract?

No, because you can't defend the fact that the last 3 years of his contract pay him 1.6, 1 and 1 mil, respectively. If either side actually intended for those years to be played, the money would have been higher.

 

[The Pucks]

It DOES EXIST IN THE NEW CBA. So Vancouver's owners knew full well what they were looking at in regards to Luongo's contract and how it falls under the recapture section of the current CBA. And the NHL (owners) as well as the NHLPA (players) both signed the CBA contract.

When luongo signed his contract is a moot point. If Vancouver...or nashville, or any team that has these back diving contracts had a problem with the recapture portion of the current CBA, they shouldn't have signed the contract.

As a lawyer, i would shred any argument the Nucks would have in court in about 15 minutes.

Legal. Binding. Contract.

once again you are VERY wrong. The contract was signed BEFORE the current CBA. There was no recapture at the time of the signing.

 

[Liferleafer]

The league also agreed to the original deal, as they have to sign off on all deals in the first place. Going back later is ridiculous, and the PA only agreed because they weren't going to turn down a CBA deal just because of that issue.

Semantics. The CBA is a legal binding contract. That trumps all.

 

[FissionFire]

Vancouver isn’t the only team who signed a player before the recapture rule to suddenly have to deal with it after the fact. They just might be the first team to have a player actually retire instead of LTIRetire on it.

Serious question: What potential career ending injury can Luongo claim to get put on LTIR? If the doctors clear him physically he can’t just opt to LTIRetire.

 

[Seanaconda]

It was so hidden that it literally didn't even exist at the time...

And if you are referring to the CBA - yes, Vancouver ownership implicitly agreed to the rule change by agreeing to the new CBA, but the rest of the CBA and League was admittedly held a little hostage. I'm not saying that's legal ground there, but they had no possible leg to stand on to withhold the CBA negotiations for that cap recapture.

The league won't handicap a team that much. If an insane recapture shows up they will finagle the rules so it doesn't destroy a team

 

[Pinkfloyd]

How was it not a massive surprise??

It didn't even exist when the contract was signed.

Wait, guys hold on, let's not sign this contract that the league is going to approve because they are going to 360 on us in a few years and then screw us over.

Let me know what the lottery numbers are next time!

It wasn't a massive surprise because the league had let it be known that they weren't happy with those contracts and it took until the new CBA to codify it to the degree they did but there was always a catch-all cap circumvention rule. Canucks can't play dumb here.

 

[DeltaSwede]

But recapture is part of an agreement that was collectively bargained upon. It's binding.

Buddy, you are so far off right now you need to take a second.

If you, like you posted are in fact a lawyer, might want to start planning for the future and a different career.

It's a collective bargaining agreement. It's not an agreement between the NHL and the Vancouver Canucks.

I'm sure the Canucks were very much against that part of the CBA but it's not in their hands is it. It's in the hands of the collective (all teams, owners, player association etc.)

 

[Seanaconda]

Vancouver isn’t the only team who signed a player before the recapture rule to suddenly have to deal with it after the fact. They just might be the first team to have a player actually retire instead of LTIRetire on it.

Serious question: What potential career ending injury can Luongo claim to get put on LTIR? If the doctors clear him physically he can’t just opt to LTIRetire.

Umm his hips are toast . He can easily go on ltir he is injured all the time

 

[DeltaSwede]

It wasn't a massive surprise because the league had let it be known that they weren't happy with those contracts and it took until the new CBA to codify it to the degree they did but there was always a catch-all cap circumvention rule. Canucks can't play dumb here.

Hey Bill, I sure don't like these kinda contracts.
Yea Gary, I freaking hate these things
We gotta get rid of these suckers
You wanna reach for my approval stamp over there bud?
Yea - here it is.

 

[GAGLine]

Had they'd known there would potentially be a penalty, then they could have done something different.

I could care less about what happens with the 'Nucks since it's not my team, but I feel they can get screwed over by a change that was implemented after that contract was signed. That's not right.

They knew what they were doing. They saw other teams do it and get away with it, so they tried to take advantage of it. When NJ tried to do it to an even greater degree, the NHL finally said enough is enough and penalized them. They couldn't retroactively penalize the other teams at that point, but they could negotiate it as part of the new CBA, which they did, and which the Canucks and other teams affected by it signed off on.

Whether or not you agree that it was against the rules of the earlier CBA is immaterial. The penalties are clearly stated in the new CBA and Vancouver agreed to it.

 

[RogerRoger]

Ever make you wonder why they didn't spread the money evenly over the course of his contract? i mean that would have made more sense if luongo was going to play every year....no?

Money now is worth more than money later.

 

[Liferleafer]

once again you are VERY wrong. The contract was signed BEFORE the current CBA. There was no recapture at the time of the signing.

I think you may need to read up on this.
Luongo signed in 2009.Brace yourselves, Canucks fans: the club is facing a Roberto Luongo salary cap nightmare

Hossa signed in 2009. You ever wonder why there was an uproar about his "medical condition"? It's because it got Chicago out of recapture.

weber signed in 2012. The Salary Cap Implications Of A Shea Weber Early Retirement

 

[The Pucks]

It DOES EXIST IN THE NEW CBA. So Vancouver's owners knew full well what they were looking at in regards to Luongo's contract and how it falls under the recapture section of the current CBA.
Legal. Binding. Contract.

how could Vancouver owners know anything about recapture when IT DID NOT EXIST and was never considered or brought up by the NHL when the contract was signed?

Bettman was pissed that teams found a loophole and not only did he want it closed, he wanted those teams punished AFTER THE FACT.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hey Bill, I sure don't like these kinda contracts.
Yea Gary, I freaking hate these things
We gotta get rid of these suckers
You wanna reach for my approval stamp over there bud?
Yea - here it is.

That doesn't mean they can't invoke rules after the fact after it had been negotiated in the CBA.

 

[Oddbob]

Semantics. The CBA is a legal binding contract. That trumps all.

That isn't semantics though, not at all. The long term deals were all legit when they were signed. Then the NHL changed their minds and said, how about we get rid of that and penalize those teams. That is the same as player X wins a trophy, and then a year or two later, they come back and say nope, the rules changed, now player Y gets the trophy instead, sorry!

Also, the players initial contracts were also legal binding contracts.

 

[RogerRoger]

Vancouver isn’t the only team who signed a player before the recapture rule to suddenly have to deal with it after the fact. They just might be the first team to have a player actually retire instead of LTIRetire on it.

Serious question: What potential career ending injury can Luongo claim to get put on LTIR? If the doctors clear him physically he can’t just opt to LTIRetire.

His hips and groin are shoot. He's had multiple injuries/surgeries on both.

 

[Liferleafer]

Buddy, you are so far off right now you need to take a second.

If you, like you posted are in fact a lawyer, might want to start planning for the future and a different career.

It's a collective bargaining agreement. It's not an agreement between the NHL and the Vancouver Canucks.

I'm sure the Canucks were very much against that part of the CBA but it's not in their hands is it. It's in the hands of the collective (all teams, owners, player association etc.)

Huh...is it a Legal Binding Contract? Have the Canuck's benefited from other portions of said contract?

 

[The Pucks]

I think you may need to read up on this.
Luongo signed in 2009.Brace yourselves, Canucks fans: the club is facing a Roberto Luongo salary cap nightmare

Hossa signed in 2009. You ever wonder why there was an uproar about his "medical condition"? It's because it got Chicago out of recapture.

weber signed in 2012. The Salary Cap Implications Of A Shea Weber Early Retirement

you must be a crappy lawyer, quoting stories from 2016 about events that happened in 2009 as factual proof they knew about recapture? IT DID NOT EXIST AT THE TIME OF THE SIGNING!!!!!!!

Roberto Luongo signed his current contract Sept 2 2009, the NHL CBA was agreed upon Jan 6 2013.

How the hell was Vancouver ownership to know what would happen in a 2013 agreement? If they had that kind of for site the Canucks would have won 5 cups by now.

 

[ShelbyZ]

It would be absolutely baffling if Luongo went the "official" route to retirement. Guy has missed 68 games in the last 3 seasons with various injuries. I'm sure he could pick one out that's been continuously nagging and get a doctor and the league to sign off on him not being able to continue his career and he goes on LTIR.

I could see him retiring just cuz it would be better for Florida. If he retires this year it's better for the Canucks vs him retiring with a year or two left

The best for Florida (and obviously Vancouver) would be LTIR. Only affects their cap space in the offseason, and the real money is probably small potatoes since insurance will cover most of it... That is... Unless Mike Gillis was stupid enough to not insure a huge contract designed to take a goaltender at least into his late 30's.

On top of that, he gets a cool $3.6M that he probably never planned to make when he actually signed the deal...

 

[Liferleafer]

That isn't semantics though, not at all. The long term deals were all legit when they were signed. Then the NHL changed their minds and said, how about we get rid of that and penalize those teams. That is the same as player X wins a trophy, and then a year or two later, they come back and say nope, the rules changed, now player Y gets the trophy instead, sorry!

Also, the players initial contracts were also legal binding contracts.

A legally binding contract is a contract agreement that is valid under state and federal contract laws. “Legally binding” means that the parties must obey the terms written in the contract and perform their contract duties as stated. Failure to do so may result in legal consequences, such as a damages award.Apr

 

[uncleben]

Tbh none of them have been punished other than idk kovalchuk ? The rest have been buried on ltir anyways

The Kovalchuk deal was a little over-the-top too, and very much an issue in this whole matter today.

The contract offered Kovalchuk was technically legal, though against the spirit of the CBA.
The League felt it. by going against the spirit of the CBA, was circumvention, despite being technically legal.

The League has a system in place to decide if contracts and trades are of fair value and within the spirit of the CBA.
Their system essentialy boils down to "yes, its good, approved", and "no, it's not good, denied".
That's all they needed to do. Just deny the contract and make the two parties try again.

The added penalties were very much done to make an example.

With that decision to penalize the Devils and accept Kovalchuk's new contract (which was still crazy front-loaded and "problematic"), they elected to not pursue or alter the deals to Roberto Luongo, Marc Savard, Chris Pronger and Marian Hossa
Only then to turn around a few years later and say... "nahh, after approving of these deals twice already, we don't like it"

 

[Oddbob]

A legally binding contract is a contract agreement that is valid under state and federal contract laws. “Legally binding” means that the parties must obey the terms written in the contract and perform their contract duties as stated. Failure to do so may result in legal consequences, such as a damages award.Apr

WHAT IS YOUR POINT? The initial contracts were legally binding contracts as well!!!

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I remember hearing an interview with Luongo about this. He had said in there he doesn't see retiring as an option because of the position it would put Florida, and primarily Vancouver in. Despite everything, he still loves our team, city, and fans.

 

[Seanaconda]

It would be absolutely baffling if Luongo went the "official" route to retirement. Guy has missed 68 games in the last 3 seasons with various injuries. I'm sure he could pick one out that's been continuously nagging and get a doctor and the league to sign off on him not being able to continue his career and he goes on LTIR.



The best for Florida (and obviously Vancouver) would be LTIR. Only affects their cap space in the offseason, and the real money is probably small potatoes since insurance will cover most of it... That is... Unless Mike Gillis was stupid enough to not insure a huge contract designed to take a goaltender at least into his late 30's.

On top of that, he gets a cool $3.6M that he probably never planned to make when he actually signed the deal...

Tbh I don't think Florida gets hit with much of anything and he can be their goalie coach or something if he retires ,

Idk tho he has enough injury history I cant see it being an issue to say his hips cant handle playing anymore

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

The cap recapture is the dumbest thing ever.