DPE deflated GAA, but didn’t generally inflate SV% relative to most of Lundqvist’s career, since there were fewer shots in general, and a greater percentage of them were on the PP outside of the first couple years after the lockout.
Lundqvist or Luongo?
- Thread starter SeanMoneyHands
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DPE deflated GAA, but didn’t generally inflate SV% relative to most of Lundqvist’s career, since there were fewer shots in general, and a greater percentage of them were on the PP outside of the first couple years after the lockout.
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
Maybe b/c of the meltdowns, but on the other-hand Luongo had more shutouts in the SCF than Lundqivst had wins.
I Hate Blake Coleman
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That 2011 final really hurt Luongos legacy…he’s still a top goaltender. But if he doesn’t shit the bed that year I wonder how much better he’d be looked upon.
I feel like that final wouldn’t have had as big of an impact on his legacy if he didn’t also have meltdowns against Chicago the two years prior as well. It became more of a trend than an aberration. Though I think his late career redeemed him a bit, similar to Fleury after some of his meltdowns with the Pens.
SkeeterPumpkinEater
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Nasti
Registered User
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Five top 5 Vezina finishes is something not many goalies in hockey history have on their resume
Nasti
Registered User
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Yeah but did you see the teams Luongo had when he first started? He was a part of the dark....DARK.... OMEGA DARK Ages of Florida that is 1999-2010
Look at that roster. LOOK AT IT LOL.
You're totally right on the idea that Luongo did miracles with the Panthers in general but I kinda disagree with laughing at this roster, at least on paper
First you have Stephan Weiss, Nathan Horton, Jay Bouwmeester and Mikael Samuelsson who were all very young but were all pretty good hockey players at some point
Then you have Olli Jokinen, Matt Cullen, Donald Audette, Kristian Huselius, Viktor Kozlov, Valeri Bure, and Niklas Hagman who all had pretty decent to good hockey careers.
Audette was 34 though and maybe some of these were lacking in 2-way hockey but this team had potential offensively.
It's almost 20 years ago so I don't really remember but it seems to be lacking in terms of defensive ability
Gentle Man
09/12
Look at the games played at the players you listed and you'll get your answer.
And yes, defense was awful. I'm a lifelong Panther fan, and the 2000s was a decade of horrific
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I hear you but what does looking at GP tell me? Some players missed a bunch but nothing too drastic
Gentle Man
09/12
No one outside Jokinen played 82.
Weiss 50. Koslov 48, Bure 55. A team barren of talent could not afford their best players missing that much time. Just those 3 alone is around 100 man games lost.
And speaking of Weiss. He wasn't that good
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918 SV% over 70GP... Yeah those are bad numbers alright.
Come back when you actually have an objective opinion, and not just hate on someone.
Nasti
Registered User
What a predictable rebuttal. I actually watched the guy play. He choked in the biggest situations. Come back when you’ve watched some games.
Stats don't lie. You just don't know you're hockey.
Lemme guess... you think he was the reason they lost vs Boston in 2011?
Nasti
Registered User
2007 - distracts himself with the ref and forgets to stop an easy shot that eliminated the Canucks.
2009 - earned the name 7uongo in the deciding game against the Hawks.
2010 - almost cost Team Canada the gold because he couldn’t glove an easy shot in the dying seconds of the 3rd period.
2011 - graduated to Ro8erto 7uongo in the cup final.
2012 - gets benched in favor of Schneider.
Do you need more examples?
nice cherry picking of these specific instances..... we can do that for any goalie/player of any sport.
STATS DONT LIE. I know its hard for some people to understand math, but come back when you do, please..... not that I expect someone from Long Beach to know their hockey.
And the fact that you think hes the reason they lost the 2011 final and not their offense is proof that you dont know shit. Its crazy how people can just choose to love/hate certain athletes like that. Says a lot about one's personality. You probably do this in everyday life as well.
ClydeLee
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- Mar 23, 2012
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State are totally interpretation based and baised. Yes they lie, what a silly way to view things.
That list Also listed other prior times Luo caved or was benched like round 1 in 2011 where he almost cost a comeback effort, had to get benched, came back in for injury lost the game. Let it go to OT in game 7 giving up a tieing goal to a guy on his knees.
He had way too many mistakes in critical playoff moments. Yet Luo is a guy people love still, you don't disregard the failure. Like Flower, people love him but it's nonsense to say he didn't blow many playoffs post 2010 for the Penguins.
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Stats are biased? Wins can be, sure, but a 918 SV% in 70GP is not biased by any means. Its not like he was playing for Bowman, Lemaire, or Hitchock. If anything your cherry picking his few bad moments is a fractional sample size compared to his career. THATS being biased.
The guy won 2 of the 7 games vs BOS singlehandedly 1-0, and won the other 3-2 in OT. The #1 star in ALL their Cup Final wins.
Yet people dont talk about how the Sedins and the Canucks scored an abysmal 8 GOALS in 7 GAMES in that final. And instead point the finger at the 8-1 loss. Its pathetic how the haters just cherry pick the bad moments, and dont recognize all the great seasons he had on a crappy Panthers team for most of his career.
Again five top 5 finishes for the Vezina is something not many goalies have done. Is he greater than Lundqvist? no, not at all. But he is one of the best goalies of the past 20 years, and theres no debating that.
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Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
There's been a lot of teams more "barren of talent" than the one you're talking about. I named 11 players that were relatively known hockey names. Like I said, it might have more to do with the fact that 4 of them were pretty young and not ready to have a major impact and a few of them were maybe on the downside as they were aging (and also injuries as you noted). Then there was maybe something that is often overlooked (you agreed) : team defense. You can have a lot of talent but if your team is bad defensively, you won't go anywhere. Look at the 2017-18 Senators and the 2019-20 Sharks for example. Teams that had success very recently and then the the house of cards fell apart
Regarding Weiss, we're not talking about a world beater here but I thought he was pretty good in his peak with the Panthers (2007-2012), he had 116 goals, 201 assists, 317 points in 462 games which is an average of 21 goals, 56 points per 82 games and pretty good possession numbers.
He was 55th in points among NHL forwards during that period of time...
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That list also had one example per year. Hockey has a million moments, millions of games. Hard to say he let in one goal in a game 7, each year to say a goalie is bad, because they don't get to those games, without the goalies, and use it to point to a goalie being bad. He was also an important part getting them to those moments. The eye only remembers big events like goals not the small events that led to that moment the 100s of saves a goalie made getting to that point.
Not making a case for either goalie just a case against a list like that and relying on the eye test.
