Luke Schenn

Cootsfanclub

For Oskar!
Mar 29, 2013
7,795
4,473
I think Manning could give the Flyers the same as what L. Schenn is giving them now.

Manning isn't good enough offensively to be on an NHL PP and doesn't have the size to play in the NHL as a defenseman in his own zone. He isn't particularly a good skater either. What would he add to the team?
 

FLYERSFAN18

Registered User
May 31, 2008
2,760
912
Pennsylvania
If Berube could actually make good decisions when it comes to the lineup it could help Schenn and the rest of the defenseman look good or at least better. First get grossmann of the ice, he is the worst of the defenseman we have in the NHL. Schenn has looked good when playing with gus, macdonald, Carlo C so pair him with one of those two if he is going to play at all. I would try Streit with Coburn for a while since coburn plays so much better when not required to produce offense

Streit-Coburn
MDZ-Schultz/Colaiacovo
MacDonald-Schenn
Grossmann

Or

MDZ-Coburn
MacDonald-Streit
Colaiacovo-Schenn
Schultz
Grossmann

Either one of those lineups would help Schenn, he just needs to be paired with someone who can provide the offense, but also not leave him out to dry in the defensive end. He has shown chemistry with macdonald and colaiacovo so keep him with one of those two. With that said the only defenseman I don't want to see traded right now are streit and mdz. Everyone else can go for the right price. I don't want Hextall to sign MDZ just yet, wait until the end of the season
 

Prongo

Beer
Jun 5, 2008
22,567
8,212
philadelphia
Im ready to move him and Grossmann. The JVR trade is a sunk cost, we need to forget about that. Burke might like him in Calgary?
 

FLYERSFAN18

Registered User
May 31, 2008
2,760
912
Pennsylvania
I don't care I we trade luke but if he gets benched and Grossmann continues to play I don't know how even the biggest Berube defenders could continue
 

PropJoe

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
369
0
The problem with advanced possession stats is that while they can be tremendously insightful, they can also be very misleading if analyzed narrowly.

Luke Schenn has a low positive relative Corsi this season, so you're right that guys playing ahead of him have had 'worse' possession stats. But also keep in mind that Schenn is given the easiest match ups each night. Schenn beats out Schultz and Grossmann, but they get much harder competition (look at Corsi Rel QoC). He also beat out Coburn and MacDonald, but they had injuries and short sample sizes.

This is more of an indictment of our lack of top first pair D, but hopefully when Coburn and MacDonald find their games, it won't be quite so troublesome.

And remember that possession stats like Corsi and Fenwick don't account for the quality of scoring chances surrendered. When Luke Schenn leaves a man open in front of the net or lets a forward skate around him for an odd-man break, it's the same if he rode someone away from net for a weak outside shot or deflected a puck away after getting in shooting lanes.

For me, the most troubling is his 4.26 GA On/60 stat (nearly a full 2 GA/60 more than when he's off the ice). That's quite unimpressive, given he's a "defensive defender" who faces the worst competition every night.


All of this stuff is well researched man. The effects of QoC are minimal at best on a players on ice results: http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/23/the-importance-of-quality-of-competition

Same goes with quality of chances and the goals against stuff. Corsi is more reliable in small samples. Goals are pretty infrequent events over such small samples. This causes a ton of variation and makes it unreliable in comparison to shot attempt metrics. Essentially he's catching blame because his goalie doesn't make saves when he's on the ice.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
5,932
1,233
Right, he has no ability yet he's one of the best on the team at controlled zone exits: http://pattisonave.com/luke-schenn-skills/

I'm not saying the guy is PK Subban but he's a pretty decent passer/puck handler. Certainly better than MacDonald and Grossmann in that regard, not that that says a whole lot.
This article ignores Schenn's QoC, which gives him a huge handicap when looking at possession stats. You can't directly compare his numbers to Grossmann/MacDonald when they're playing against top lines, not that it's even impressive to be edging them out to begin with.

Also, it assumes that Schenn bares no responsibility for his low on-ice shooting %. It's not a coincidence. Schenn allows some really dangerous chances. As I type this, Schenn just let Grabovski skate around him 1 on 1 and get a free quality scoring chance in the slot.
All of this stuff is well researched man. The effects of QoC are minimal at best on a players on ice results: http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/23/the-importance-of-quality-of-competition

Same goes with quality of chances and the goals against stuff. Corsi is more reliable in small samples. Goals are pretty infrequent events over such small samples. This causes a ton of variation and makes it unreliable in comparison to shot attempt metrics. Essentially he's catching blame because his goalie doesn't make saves when he's on the ice.
It's an interesting start, but Eric's conclusion is VERY premature (the data he really needs isn't available/possible). For one, he assumes that small variance in QoC numbers compared to individual Corsi (much wider) indicates that the frequency of "matchups" is overstated. That's a big leap to make without concrete data to support it. With stats like QoC, you see smaller variants in large part because you're pooling from a much larger set of players, so the data will regress closer to the mean.
Actually, a good point to take away from that article is that, while stats like Rel QoC are useful in determining overall usage, there's not a one-to-one statistical relationship we can draw from to compare players of different usages (as of yet). Advanced stats are tremendously useful, but they have to be looked at judiciously and taken with a grain of salt, because they don't tell the whole story.

And you're right that goals are infrequent events, but they're pretty important events. It's convenient to look at Corsi, Fenwick, shot differential, etc., since they have a wider data set to pool form. However, that doesn't make them perfect stats. If the goalie is having a tougher time making saves when Luke Schenn is on the ice, that doesn't necessarily indicate a statistical anomaly that will correct itself over time.
 
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MrGameAndWatch

Registered User
Jun 23, 2014
202
2
Hi guys, Flames fan here. If we were to target L. Schenn in a trade, what would you want for him? Pick? Prospect? AHL player?

A bag of pucks and a Tootsie Roll Pop?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,851
86,230
Nova Scotia
+ the tootsie rolls

Sorry...Schenn already ate them. :sarcasm:

The thing with Schenn, is that he has always looked good with a PMD at his side.....and crap without them. So how freakin hard is it to pair him with a PMD to get the best out of him.

I said it before, Besides Kimmo, Schenn has never played with a real good dman....and he was great that year. It won't surprise me if had leaves via FA and then gets paired with a good D and looks great again.
 

flyershockey

Registered User
Oct 10, 2006
13,466
6,569
Sorry...Schenn already ate them. :sarcasm:

The thing with Schenn, is that he has always looked good with a PMD at his side.....and crap without them. So how freakin hard is it to pair him with a PMD to get the best out of him.

I said it before, Besides Kimmo, Schenn has never played with a real good dman....and he was great that year. It won't surprise me if had leaves via FA and then gets paired with a good D and looks great again.

I'd be perfectly fine with that honestly. With Morin, Ghost and Hagg all looking to make the jump in the next couple of years, the Flyers are going to need a couple solid veteran partners to play with them. I trust a guy like Streit in that role. I don't trust Coburn, Schenn or MacDonald since all have proven that they themselves need to be the guy riding shotgun on a pair to be successful. We need more Willie Mitchell types, and less brain dead types like Coburn and Schenn.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,772
42,831
It can't be any old PMD. MDZ-Schenn was a horrible pairing cause Del Zotto gambled too much and Luke didn't have the speed or smarts to cover him.

Gus or MacDonald do better with him. Kimmo was great with anyone.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,772
42,831
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-power-struggle-over-the-coachs-challenge/

Why has it been so difficult for Philadelphia to trade Luke Schenn?

Still only 26, unrestricted after this season, so many teams looking for defensive help. You figure someone would take a look at him. (Ron Hextall would not comment.) Checking with some execs and scouts, a few reasons emerged.

If the Flyers don’t want to take money back, it limits the ability to trade him. That is probably a factor. Schenn needs structure to cover up his lack of speed, and the Flyers are still working to create that. One scout thought that issue was exacerbated by trips to the World Championships, because his game is not built for the bigger ice surface and several teams saw him there. Another GM said he believes the market for Schenn will grow as more of his salary is spent.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,134
86,497
Wait, other teams only scouted him at the WCs? That sounds ridiculous. I get the WCs heavily influencing the reputation of a European prospect with little high end exposure (Raffl, PEB), but a guy with 8 years of NHL experience? I don't know if I buy that.
 

usahockey22flyers

2 years away from being 2 years away
Nov 9, 2009
6,020
2,469
Philly
He's been OK this season as a 3rd pair guy. Last year I wanted him scratched for pretty much 82, but after the offseason me and him worked out our differences.

What I love about Luke is how hard he works off/on the ice, what I hate about Luke is how low his ceiling came to be.
 

Protest

C`est La Vie
Mar 28, 2008
7,410
1,269
Deptford, NJ
Wait, other teams only scouted him at the WCs? That sounds ridiculous. I get the WCs heavily influencing the reputation of a European prospect with little high end exposure (Raffl, PEB), but a guy with 8 years of NHL experience? I don't know if I buy that.

Yea that stuck out to me immediately. They're judging a guy that's got plenty of games in the league already by his performance on a bigger ice surface than the NHL uses? ...something was lost in translation there.
 

dropdeadjoey

Registered User
Oct 23, 2014
230
0
Ontario
He's been OK this season as a 3rd pair guy. Last year I wanted him scratched for pretty much 82, but after the offseason me and him worked out our differences.

What I love about Luke is how hard he works off/on the ice, what I hate about Luke is how low his ceiling came to be.

I agree with this, he's been a solid 3rd pairing defensive d-man who is capable is clearing pucks and people from in front of his net, however this seems to be part of his very limited skill set.
 

thelos

Bunk
Jul 19, 2011
2,253
64
Schenn actually has good passing and decent possession stats. His footspeed is what kills him. Him and Schultz look awful together
 

Embiid

Off IR for now
May 27, 2010
32,685
21,006
Philadelphia
Love that awesome play last night where he tripped over his own skates, flailed all over the ice, and nearly poked the Edmonton player's eye out with his stick....:shakehead
 

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