Proposal: Loui Loui, Oh No, He Gotta Go: VAN + ARI

[Perennial]

After all this time, how do people still not understand how LTIR works? LTIR contracts still count towards the cap. It isn't just magically removed from your total cap.

I think you're mistaken about that...

 

[DS7]

We're never getting rid of Loui. We'll buy him out next year.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Ridiculous to suggest that the isles,with a weak prospect pool and facing another cap crunch next offseason, would attach a 1st to Boychuk's LTIR for Kessel.

Lou Lams does not give two shits about prospects.

If he can get rid of his cap crunch and add a top-6 goals scorer at a discount in one trade he'd do it in a heartbeat. The islanders are set up to win now. I still remember when Lou traded his PPG #1 centre for a 34 year old Nieuwendyk.

 

[voxel]

I think you're mistake about that...

No he is not. Your understanding of the cap is as bad as your trade proposal.

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[StephenPeat]

I, for one, am shocked that Vancouver has not been able to move Loui Ericsson for going on 2+ Seasons now. It seems like every five minutes a thread pops up with Canucks fans telling us all how easy it’s going to be. The good news (?), I guess it can’t last much longer than two more years.

 

[NYR94]

Has a player had more trade threads about him in recent years than Eriksson? The Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk forum needs a sub-forum for Loui Only.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

By next year, Johnson's NTC is a M-NTC and they can get rid of him easier...or they might give some incentive to lose him to Seattle. Everyone is going to lose someone good to Seattle as well don't forget.

Further, nothing is stopping Tampa from renting Kessel for a deadline and then passing him off again in the offseason. The trade to get Kessel might be a way to SOLVE cap problems if one of Gourde/Johnson is willing to play in Arizona. Maybe Arizona WANTS a top-6 player who is signed a bit more long-term than Kessel

Kessel + retention + pick for Gourde + Nilsson + Gaborik + late 1st. I'd have to check the math, but I'm pretty sure it won't change Tampa's cap situation and won't change dollars. It might actually simplify a few things as only Kucherov will be on LTIR for Tampa at that point. Kessell will waive for Tampa easily. If Tampa loses Johnson to expansion, they will now only have 1 more year of Kessel at around 5.5M which opens room for Point's new contarct.

Just be creative. Edit: id o have to check out Kessel's retention though to see how much Arizona can retain, Tampa's situation is particularly tight.

Edit: 2: Also, even if Arizona doesn't want Johnson//Gourde, someone else might, Tampa can make a separate deal with another team. The whole advantage of Kessel is that he is very skill/productive, reasonably cheap with retention and won't cost an arm and a leg. (because of his NTC). For Tampa, the advantage isn't so much saving dollars TODAY or next season, but dollars in 2022 when they have Point coming up for a new contract.

None of that helps us at all. How hard is this to understand, we are still over the cap by 3 million next season, with 16 players signed. And your genius idea is to move 2 players and picks for one $8M player who is signed for another year.

Arizona would have to retain 50%, bring Kessel down to 4M. For us to even save a bit of money. Lets say Arizona takes both Gourde and Johnson with no retention, no idea why they would but lets say they do, That would be 10.2M out and 4M in.
That would open up 2.7M in cap for Tampa, but here is the catch.

We would be down to 15 signed players, with 2.7M in cap, missing 2 top 9 forwards, draft picks, to get Phil Kessel for 1 year... cool... smart play. We would have more value moving Johnson and Gourde separately in this scenario for peanuts and just getting 6.7M in cap space back.

In no way, unless Kessel becomes a LTIR staple, does Tampa trade for Phil Kessel. Don't double down on your idiotic idea.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I think you're mistake about that...

You really should look this up before you post...

 

[TeddyBare]

LOL

Stop acting like Kessel has Value
He is completely useless, he has checked out, and was nothing short of terrible for arizona last year

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I, for one, am shocked that Vancouver has not been able to move Loui Ericsson for going on 2+ Seasons now. It seems like every five minutes a thread pops up with Canucks fans telling us all how easy it’s going to be. The good news (?), I guess it can’t last much longer than two more years.

Loui will be the first contract bought out after this season is done. Then a few days later, Marc Bergevin will sign Loui to Montreal for 1y/1M or 1.2M.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

None of that helps us at all. How hard is this to understand, we are still over the cap by 3 million next season, with 16 players signed. And your genius idea is to move 2 players and picks for one $8M player who is signed for another year.

Arizona would have to retain 50%, bring Kessel down to 4M. For us to even save a bit of money. Lets say Arizona takes both Gourde and Johnson with no retention, no idea why they would but lets say they do, That would be 10.2M out and 4M in.
That would open up 2.7M in cap for Tampa, but here is the catch.

We would be down to 15 signed players, with 2.7M in cap, missing 2 top 9 forwards, draft picks, to get Phil Kessel for 1 year... cool... smart play. We would have more value moving Johnson and Gourde separately in this scenario for peanuts and just getting 6.7M in cap space back.

In no way, unless Kessel becomes a LTIR staple, does Tampa trade for Phil Kessel. Don't double down on your idiotic idea.

Yeah, my idea to send out salary and cut contract length for a team with cap trouble. What was I thinking?

1. A retained Kessel with Gourde or Johnson gone saves both term and cap. Full stop.

2. Adding LTIRs also makes sense since Arizona will be over anyway and it simplifies Tampa's cap situation, making further deals easier.

3. Next years problems exist regardless of the trade I suggested. Just because it doesn't solve them and only makes them easier to deal with upsets you for some reason, which I don't understand. It will be easier to move Kessel with one season left at 5M than John or Gourde with more term. End of story.

4. Cutting term with Kessel helps Tampa in 2022. Regardless of how they decide to deal with 2021's offseason cap problems, less term is good for them.

5. No matter what, Tampa cutting term/salary without giving up a ton of assets, or downgrading talent is probably a good idea

 

[DistantThunderRep]

LOL

Stop acting like Kessel has Value
He is completely useless, he has checked out, and was nothing short of terrible for arizona last year

Kessel has value, but not at 8M. Arizona would have to retain like half, and there is no way Arizona will do that. There is no other team that would take 8M without sending at least 8M back during the current times.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Yeah, my idea to send out salary and cut contract length for a team with cap trouble. What was I thinking?

1. A retained Kessel with Gourde or Johnson gone saves both term and cap. Full stop.

2. Adding LTIRs also makes sense since Arizona will be over anyway and it simplifies Tampa's cap situation, making further deals easier.

3. Next years problems exist regardless of the trade I suggested. Just because it doesn't solve them and only makes them easier to deal with upsets you for some reason, which I don't understand. It will be easier to move Kessel with one season left at 5M than John or Gourde with more term. End of story.

4. Cutting term with Kessel helps Tampa in 2022. Regardless of how they decide to deal with 2021's offseason cap problems, less term is good for them.

5. No matter what, Tampa cutting term/salary without giving up a ton of assets, or downgrading talent is probably a good idea

All your points are still asinine. Are you just not reading or having problems understanding what I'm saying?

Your presumptions are ridiculous here. If Tampa didn't have their ass against a wall, they would happily keep Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, etc... They are still effective, solid top 9 players and in Killorn and Gourde's case sure fire top 6. Your suggestion is removing both, during a cup run for a singular Kessel, while we lose our LTIR relief putting us currently over the cap because we traded an LTIR contract...so we can't make this a deadline deal. Plus all three players who could move, all play defensive roles too, which Phil does not either.

Do you honestly think Arizona will willingly absorb 14.2M in cap space? How much futures do Tampa have to give at that point? Your idea is stupid from both Arizona's point of view and Tampa's.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

All your points are still asinine. Are you just not reading or having problems understanding what I'm saying?

Your presumptions are ridiculous here. If Tampa didn't have their ass against a wall, they would happily keep Gourde, Johnson, Killorn, etc... They are still effective, solid top 9 players and in Killorn and Gourde's case sure fire top 6. Your suggestion is removing both, during a cup run for a singular Kessel, while we lose our LTIR relief putting us currently over the cap because we traded an LTIR contract...so we can't make this a deadline deal. Plus all three players who could move, all play defensive roles too, which Phil does not either.

Do you honestly think Arizona will willingly absorb 14.2M in cap space? How much futures do Tampa have to give at that point? Your idea is stupid from both Arizona's point of view and Tampa's.

Arizona will be above the cap. They are only absorbing the difference in salary between Gourde/Johnson and Kessel. The rest on going on LTIR just like they were on Tampa.

Arizona gets a draft pick they desperately need and a younger player signed for longer term.

 

[innitfam]

Lou Lams does not give two shits about prospects.

If he can get rid of his cap crunch and add a top-6 goals scorer at a discount in one trade he'd do it in a heartbeat. The islanders are set up to win now. I still remember when Lou traded his PPG #1 centre for a 34 year old Nieuwendyk.

Didnt the Devils win the Cup the next year after that?

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Didnt the Devils win the Cup the next year after that?

Yeah, not the year they made the trade, the year after.

Which was part of the risk as I recall. Joe was 34 and only signed for one more season before he was a UFA, so if the Devils didn't win they were in a bad spot. Arnott was a good few years younger and considered on the upswing. He was still a restricted free agent. At the time everyone kinda thought Arnott was still the future of the team.

Oddly, it was a bit of a "throw-in" to that trade, Jamie Langenbrunner, that ended up being the most interesting. He ended up spending a decade on the Devils and was a key part of their success.

 

[rt]

Kessel has value, but not at 8M. Arizona would have to retain like half, and there is no way Arizona will do that. There is no other team that would take 8M without sending at least 8M back during the current times.

Toronto is already retaining 15% on the deal. His remaining cap hit is 6.8aav.

 

[CREW99AW]

Lou Lams does not give two shits about prospects.

If he can get rid of his cap crunch and add a top-6 goals scorer at a discount in one trade he'd do it in a heartbeat. The islanders are set up to win now. I still remember when Lou traded his PPG #1 centre for a 34 year old Nieuwendyk.

Lou Lam's does give a shit about being in a cap crunch. Isles came into this off-season in a cap crunch and needing to sign Barzal,Toews and Pulock. Lou Lam's has made it very clear he didn't want to trade 27 yr old Toews for a couple of magic beans,but the cap crunch forced him to.

Next offseason he is in another cap crunch with Pelech, Sorokin and Beau due raises.

Ridiculous to suggest the isles,with a weak prospect pool and facing another off-season cap crunch, would attach a 1st to Boychuk's LTIR for Kessel.

 

[Larry Hanson]

As a rival fan I'd love to dump on Juolevi but I think he still has great potential to be a top 4 dman. Used to be that most defencemen would take 3+ years to develop before getting a shot, these days people expect them to be an impact player at 18-20 years old or they get labeled a bust. On a rebuilding team I'd take Juolevi over Kessel every day of the week, Kessel might have good value at the trade deadline next year but right now no contender can afford his cap hit. Including Eriksson is obviously a negative but the added 2nd rounder makes up for it IMO.

 

[Frenzy31]

As a rival fan I'd love to dump on Juolevi but I think he still has great potential to be a top 4 dman. Used to be that most defencemen would take 3+ years to develop before getting a shot, these days people expect them to be an impact player at 18-20 years old or they get labeled a bust. On a rebuilding team I'd take Juolevi over Kessel every day of the week, Kessel might have good value at the trade deadline next year but right now no contender can afford his cap hit. Including Eriksson is obviously a negative but the added 2nd rounder makes up for it IMO.

Not in my opinion. Kessel had a lousy year last year. But otherwise has been solid. LE has been garbage the whole contract.

Think Kessel can rebound, LE can not.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Not in my opinion. Kessel had a lousy year last year. But otherwise has been solid. LE has been garbage the whole contract.

Think Kessel can rebound, LE can not.

No question Kessel is by far the better player but the proposal has Vancouver adding a good prospect and a good pick. Arizona isn't winning anything in the next 2 years with or without Kessel, I'd take the futures and do the deal. Don't forget that Arizona doesn't even have their 1st next draft which is bad considering the mess that Chayka left in his wake, adding a third 2nd rounder allows them to hopefully get a decent player or even trade up. Plus, as mentioned, Juolevi still has a lot of potential and fits into their time frame.

 

[StephenPeat]

Loui will be the first contract bought out after this season is done. Then a few days later, Marc Bergevin will sign Loui to Montreal for 1y/1M or 1.2M.

You’re going 1yr? I’ll take the over on that, this is “The Berg” we’re talking about. I’m going 2yrs/$2.5m which will also subsequently be bought out.

Serious question has any player in the history of the League been Bought Out of a Contract twice?

 

[the Chad Kilger]

You’re going 1yr? I’ll take the over on that, this is “The Berg” we’re talking about. I’m going 2yrs/$2.5m which will also subsequently be bought out.

Serious question has any player in the history of the League been Bought Out of a Contract twice?

my guess was Vinny Lecavalier but he agreed to retire at the end of the season as part of his trade to LA

Buyout History - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah, not the year they made the trade, the year after.

Which was part of the risk as I recall. Joe was 34 and only signed for one more season before he was a UFA, so if the Devils didn't win they were in a bad spot. Arnott was a good few years younger and considered on the upswing. He was still a restricted free agent. At the time everyone kinda thought Arnott was still the future of the team.

Oddly, it was a bit of a "throw-in" to that trade, Jamie Langenbrunner, that ended up being the most interesting. He ended up spending a decade on the Devils and was a key part of their success.

Langenbrunner wasn’t a “throw-in”, Lamoriello got to know him when he was the GM of 1998 US Olympic team and he coveted him ever since. Lou was trading for Langenbrunner, Niewendyk was a short term replacement for Arnott. I’m not sure why Arnott was traded, I haven’t thought about it long while, but typically when guys got shipped out at the time it was related to money.

 

[Jormungandr]

Arizona will be above the cap.

No they won’t. They’re not even above the cap this year. Hell, they’re so far below the cap that they don’t even need to use LTIR on the Hossa contract. He’s on plain old IR.