Post-Game Talk: Loss

[jkutswings]

Well, it was 3 weeks ago today that HSJ said Howard was out 4-6 weeks with the MCL sprain, so I'd guess there would be an update in the next few days with how he's progressing.

Tough to imagine that he'd hit the ground running, though, even if he was returning to a good team. The frenzied nature of muscular movement for goaltenders seems like the worst possible exercise when coming off a ligament injury.

 

[njx9]

I don't even know what you do with Mrazek at this point. Is it better to just keep putting him out there, when he's clearly not putting anything together? Should he watch Coreau/whoever 9/10 games? Given that this season is a loss, I'm not sure what's better for him long term.

 

[Heaton]

Which defense has Howard been playing behind all season?

Howard has been the best Wings goalie, but his stats have been going down each month after an insane start to the year.

We'd be winning more games with Howard in, but not that many more.

 

[Ennui]

Which defense has Howard been playing behind all season?

One that has been a shade more functional than this raging inferno. Just a shade. He's still had to pull off a superhuman effort to grab wins.

This isn't Mrazek VS Howie, this is goalies VS world at this point.

 

[Ennui]

I don't even know what you do with Mrazek at this point. Is it better to just keep putting him out there, when he's clearly not putting anything together? Should he watch Coreau/whoever 9/10 games? Given that this season is a loss, I'm not sure what's better for him long term.

Well we can't assign the sheer volume of players actually responsible for these abominable defensive efforts to the conditioning stint they deserve, so maybe we could assign Mrazek to a GR conditioning stint just to save him from playing on this embarrassment of a team, if only for a few games.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Liljegren or bust

 

[njx9]

Well we can't assign the sheer volume of players actually responsible for these abominable defensive efforts to the conditioning stint they deserve, so maybe we could assign Mrazek to a GR conditioning stint just to save him from playing on this embarrassment of a team, if only for a few games.

I totally agree with what I think your implication is (the entire team is a dumpster fire, so it's not all on Mrazek). But regardless of that, I think the team should be looking at what's best for Mrazek in 2-3 seasons. Is keeping him off the ice better? Is just rolling him out there every night and letting him take his shots better?

 

[datsyukfan]

Guys the guy let in 4 goals on 20 shots don't act like last night we lost because the defense was pathetic, a goalies job is to make some saves. If we had average goaltending last night we probably win

 

[Pavels Dog]

One that has been a shade more functional than this raging inferno. Just a shade. He's still had to pull off a superhuman effort to grab wins.

This isn't Mrazek VS Howie, this is goalies VS world at this point.

Howard also got by far the worst goal support in the entire league, barely 1 goal per game.

Lately, we've been scoring 3+ more often than not. And we're still losing all the time. Because Mrazek gives up a minimum of 3 goals every time.

Really if you pick apart every goal that has ever been scored, 90% of them come down to defensive mistakes. Not clearing the crease, getting out of position, screening the goalie, etc etc.
The job of a goalie is to make saves even if the defense doesn't play perfect. Mrazek has not been doing that job at all this year. He barely, barely, makes the easy saves.

 

[TatarTangle]

But Mrazek was barely a starter and he's not this year. Who knows maybe this will be his "backup Hasek year in Buffalo." And next year he'll turn it around.

They named him the starter before the season. He certainly played himself out of that role.

Not directed at you but Mrazek will be the next Hasek like Tatar and Nyquist were supposed to be the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Let's not insult some of the best players we've seen.

 

[HIFE]

One that has been a shade more functional than this raging inferno. Just a shade. He's still had to pull off a superhuman effort to grab wins.

This isn't Mrazek VS Howie, this is goalies VS world at this point.

I'm with you here. Have no idea how one gathers that Mrazek was at fault for not stopping 1 or 2...but 3 deflected shots! Another where dude is in full splits and 4 Wings can't do something to cover or clear the puck. We just expect Peter to steal 2-1 games like dozens in the past- if he doesn't then goaltending is the focus of analysis? Insane.

The Wings are not a good hockey team, at forward or defense. This "beasting" and we generate only 2 goals, what a laugh. All it took was for Dallas to turn up the dial for a few minutes and it was game over as usual. I guess we can continue to feel hopeful, pat ourselves on the back for out-shooting an opponent once every 10 games, and blame Mrazek for the loss. Hey whatever floats your boat.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Looks like we played pretty well, but bad puck luck and weak D/goaltending cost us.

Having said that, I think Blashill is gone sooner rather than later. No way Holland lets this go on much longer, we're now 8 points back from 3rd in the division.

 

[Dotter]

I'm with you here. Have no idea how one gathers that Mrazek was at fault for not stopping 1 or 2...but 3 deflected shots! Another where dude is in full splits and 4 Wings can't do something to cover or clear the puck. We just expect Peter to steal 2-1 games like dozens in the past- if he doesn't then goaltending is the focus of analysis? Insane.

The Wings are not a good hockey team, at forward or defense. This "beasting" and we generate only 2 goals, what a laugh. All it took was for Dallas to turn up the dial for a few minutes and it was game over as usual. I guess we can continue to feel hopeful, pat ourselves on the back for out-shooting an opponent once every 10 games, and blame Mrazek for the loss. Hey whatever floats your boat.

Why is Mrazek the only goalie in the NHL not asked to make deflection saves? Why is he immune to not making timely saves while other goalies around the NHL do, in fact, stop deflected pucks, and do stop pucks from defensive breakdowns that happened in front of them. Why is it only poor Mrazek that gets the pass while other goalies around the NHL who are making his type of money are asked to come up big?

If defense are never expected to have defense lapses, then why the hell do teams even have goalies for? Just admit it, Mrazek is trash this season.

 

[jkutswings]

Why is Mrazek the only goalie in the NHL not asked to make deflection saves? Why is he immune to not making timely saves while other goalies around the NHL do, in fact, stop deflected pucks, and do stop pucks from defensive breakdowns that happened in front of them. Why is it only poor Mrazek that gets the pass while other goalies around the NHL who are making his type of money are asked to come up big?

If defense are never expected to have defense lapses, then why the hell do teams even have goalies for? Just admit it, Mrazek is trash this season.

I'd say that there's a wide swath of, "Some of Column A, Some of Column B" in between Mrazek getting a free pass, and Mrazek being trash this season.

He definitely needs to play a lot better, but he's also being hung out to dry fairly often.

 

[Dotter]

Both goalies have the same defense in front of them:

Howard
1.96 .934

Mrazek
3.19 .893

 

[TatarTangle]

Both goalies have the same defense in front of them:

Howard
1.96 .934

Mrazek
3.19 .893

So, currently, one is worth his contract and the other isn't?

Huh

 

[Ezekial]

Liljegren or bust

I'd be fine with Nolan Patrick.

 

[Dotter]

Oh and Tatar needs to sit and Sheahan needs to play.

 

[HockeyinHD]

So, I just watched the rest of the game.

Game was not on Mrazek. He has been terrible pretty much all year, but there wasn't a single goal I'd call soft.

I don't even think the Wings played all that bad, really. Niemi was really strong and Dallas got some absurd bounces. I mean, that deflection off of Ericsson's stick was nuts. Two other shots that carom and go in.

Now, as far as 'why do you even watch' goes... guys, if an actual tank happens it's going to be worse than this, because there won't even be any players you can reliably criticize. That would kick the last bit of fun so many of you even get from the team right out of the house.

'Hey, that one guy was terrible, he sucks!'
'Well, yeah, that's the point.'
'Damn. You're right.'

 

[HIFE]

Why is Mrazek the only goalie in the NHL not asked to make deflection saves? Why is he immune to not making timely saves while other goalies around the NHL do, in fact, stop deflected pucks, and do stop pucks from defensive breakdowns that happened in front of them. Why is it only poor Mrazek that gets the pass while other goalies around the NHL who are making his type of money are asked to come up big?

If defense are never expected to have defense lapses, then why the hell do teams even have goalies for? Just admit it, Mrazek is trash this season.

All goalies are hoped on to make those saves, including pucks they can't see. Ever wonder why commentators state goalies don't have a chance on those? Because they don't. It's only positioning and a gigantic amount of luck included. If Mrazek doesn't have a vezina worthy, all-star performance then why is it the Wings lose every time? This has been explained for 2 seasons now- Mrazek and Howard have propped up this fragile, impotent offense for too long it's almost been a hindrance masking our DEEP-SEATED weaknesses.

I'd rather ask why is it acceptable for teams like San Jose and Dallas to romp on us in the D zone cycling never-ending amounts of shots from their point with masses of bodies surrounding our net. Then we call their goals "lucky", which I read after the Sharks game. WTF was Tatar thinking on his soft chip to their D on the 1st goal, etc? The defenseman's job is to clear bodies away and tie up sticks with the potential for a tip, something the Wings are unable to muster the strength to accomplish.

I do agree Howard is playing phenomenal (2nd in NHL SV%), there's no question there.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If Mrazek doesn't have a vezina worthy, all-star performance then why is it the Wings lose every time?

"Vezina-worthy, all-star performance"
---
---
---
---
---
Average NHL goaltending.
---
Mrazek's play this year.
---
---
The worst possible goaltending one can have and still be started.

 

[jkutswings]

https://puckalytics.com/#/goalies?TOIMin=50&GPMax=999&GPMin=0&TOIDecMax=99999&TOIDecMin=0&Team

After browsing some advanced stats, it looks like Mrazek was a bit worse than I had first guessed, but it's still been a team effort of awfulness.

I just wish they had SCA60 to compare Mrazek and Howard, both against each other and against the rest of the league.

 

[Flowah]

Now, as far as 'why do you even watch' goes... guys, if an actual tank happens it's going to be worse than this, because there won't even be any players you can reliably criticize. That would kick the last bit of fun so many of you even get from the team right out of the house.

Are you ever going to acknowledge there's a difference between watching a team that sucks because it was designed to suck and watching a cap team trying to win but absolutely sucking at it because it was poorly assembled?

 

[HIFE]

"Vezina-worthy, all-star performance"
---
---
---
---
---
Average NHL goaltending.
---
Mrazek's play this year.
---
---
The worst possible goaltending one can have and still be started.

Haha yes I acknowledge Mrazek is having a very down season. But it's a fact in the last two seasons he's been an NHL star of the week/month posting #'s as the top netminder in the world. He's saved the Wings bacon faaar to many times in the past to be on my list of total disappointments.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Are you ever going to acknowledge there's a difference between watching a team that sucks because it was designed to suck and watching a cap team trying to win but absolutely sucking at it because it was poorly assembled?

Reading stuff like that reminds me of people who make New Year's resolutions.

'No, no, it's totally different to watch a team be bad on purpose instead of 'accidentally'. Way different experience!'

-18 months later-

'Oh, the Wings were on? Huh. Yeah, I stopped watching them a while back. I mean, I still watch a few games each year, but enh. I'll check back in when they get better. Hey, how 'bout 'dem Tigers though, right?'

In other words, I know you think what you are saying is true. I know you believe it.

I just think you're wrong, and I think you'll think you're wrong once you get in the middle of it.