Post-Game Talk: Loss

[Flowah]

Reading stuff like that reminds me of people who make New Year's resolutions.

'No, no, it's totally different to watch a team be bad on purpose instead of 'accidentally'. Way different experience!'

You really don't think the fans who are watching the Leafs rebuild and the Sabres rebuild are having a different experience compared to us? Because I can tell you that you're dead wrong. They generally like what they're seeing. They know they're supposed to suck right now. They see progress, they see a plan, they see the pieces coming together.

We don't.

I am amazed that this is so beyond your capability to understand. Or maybe I'm not actually. Seems par for the course now that I think about it.

Your world is one in which intent doesn't seem to matter. The guy who's killed on accident elicits exactly the same feelings as the guy who was murdered in cold blood. The team that sucks intentionally as part of a plan to rebuild is the same as a team that thinks it doesn't have to rebuild but sucks anyway. It's absolutely astounding anyone could actually think this way.

Ultimately I think it just comes down to your apologetics.

 

[jkutswings]

Reading stuff like that reminds me of people who make New Year's resolutions.

'No, no, it's totally different to watch a team be bad on purpose instead of 'accidentally'. Way different experience!'

-18 months later-

'Oh, the Wings were on? Huh. Yeah, I stopped watching them a while back. I mean, I still watch a few games each year, but enh. I'll check back in when they get better. Hey, how 'bout 'dem Tigers though, right?'

In other words, I know you think what you are saying is true. I know you believe it.

I just think you're wrong, and I think you'll think you're wrong once you get in the middle of it.

I'd rather watch a 6-5 loss with a Mantha hat trick on a rebuilding team, than a 2-1 win on a team that has left the priority of winning championships by the roadside.

Now I fully realize that there will be PLENTY of awful games on any rebuilding team. But at the moment, there's not even really any reason to HOPE.

 

[Pavels Dog]

"Vezina-worthy, all-star performance"
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Average NHL goaltending.
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Mrazek's play this year.
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The worst possible goaltending one can have and still be started.

That is honestly having Mrazek way too high. He wouldn't be started if Howard was healthy. He barely gets started even now, and Coreau isn't even good.

Another season like this and Mrazek will be out of the league, it's nowhere near league average goaltending.

 

[Heaton]

That is honestly having Mrazek way too high. He wouldn't be started if Howard was healthy. He barely gets started even now, and Coreau isn't even good.

Another season like this and Mrazek will be out of the league, it's nowhere near league average goaltending.

No reason to write off Mrazek yet, plenty of good goalies on good teams are having terrible seasons. Bobrovsky was terrible last year, this year he's a Vezina favorite. Jake Allen looks like garbage, Brian Elliott looks like garbage, didn't they win the award for best team save percentage last year?

Not saying Mrazek is going to be our long term answer, but I don't think his career is already over. Howard having his best career year ever behind the worst Wings defense in 30 years and Mrazek having his worst year aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Dotter]

I'd rather watch a 6-5 loss with a Mantha hat trick on a rebuilding team, than a 2-1 win on a team that has left the priority of winning championships by the roadside.

Now I fully realize that there will be PLENTY of awful games on any rebuilding team. But at the moment, there's not even really any reason to HOPE.

Be careful what you wish for. If Mantha has too many hat tricks a scores lots of goals, he'll ask for Stamkos type money. I'd rather Mantha be a complete player even if it's 25-30 goals over a one dimensional scoring machine that can't play other areas of the game.

 

[ricky0034]

Be careful what you wish for. If Mantha has too many hat tricks a scores lots of goals, he'll ask for Stamkos type money. I'd rather Mantha be a complete player even if it's 25-30 goals over a one dimensional scoring machine that can't play other areas of the game.

that would suck

if Mantha became a superstar and we had to pay him accordingly then how would we afford to sign guys like Abdelkader or Helm to lifetime deals?

 

[jkutswings]

that would suck

if Mantha became a superstar and we had to pay him accordingly then how would we afford to sign guys like Abdelkader or Helm to lifetime deals?

Not to mention all those "complete players" that suddenly can't score their way out of a paper bag when the playoffs roll around.

I think I'll take my chances at hoping Mantha becomes a 35-40 goal scorer, even if that means he's never in danger of winning a Selke. Oh yeah, and it's not like the kid is tracking to be awful defensively. He kinda already shows reasonable defense, particularly with his reach, IN ADDITION to his offensive accumen.

 

[Heaton]

Be careful what you wish for. If Mantha has too many hat tricks a scores lots of goals, he'll ask for Stamkos type money. I'd rather Mantha be a complete player even if it's 25-30 goals over a one dimensional scoring machine that can't play other areas of the game.

You can teach defense, you can't teach offense. This team needs elite offensive players, you can find plugs like Abdelkader and Helm in free agency every year.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Not to mention all those "complete players" that suddenly can't score their way out of a paper bag when the playoffs roll around.

I think I'll take my chances at hoping Mantha becomes a 35-40 goal scorer, even if that means he's never in danger of winning a Selke. Oh yeah, and it's not like the kid is tracking to be awful defensively. He kinda already shows reasonable defense, particularly with his reach, IN ADDITION to his offensive accumen.

Mantha has the potential to be an awesome PKer with his reach, speed, and ability to win board battles

 

[iDangleDangle]

Mantha has the potential to be an awesome PKer with his reach, speed, and ability to win board battles

Why would you waste an offensive talent like Mantha on your pk though!

Not every forward has to be molded into a Selke beast just 'cause Dats and Z were. And even they were used in the PK sparingly.

 

[SimplySolace]

Mantha killed a ton of penalties in the Q fwiw. Got a handful of shorties his last season there if I remember right.

 

[Flowah]

Why would you waste an offensive talent like Mantha on your pk though!

Not every forward has to be molded into a Selke beast just 'cause Dats and Z were. And even they were used in the PK sparingly.

He's young. He can handle the minutes. And why not turn him into a Selke level forward if he can do it?

 

[iDangleDangle]

He's young. He can handle the minutes. And why not turn him into a Selke level forward if he can do it?

Firstly, Mantha's a winger. Secondly, I'd rather maximize his full offensive potential rather than sacrife offense for defense.

Lord knows the Wings need all the goal scoring help possible.

 

[Fear]

He's young. He can handle the minutes. And why not turn him into a Selke level forward if he can do it?

Because he probably can't, and you'd just be wasting his talent. He's never been good or even above average defensively, he's an offensive player, not that there's anything wrong with that as a winger.

 

[obey86]

The games have been more exciting lately. It's weird when the team actually scores some goals.

 

[HockeyinHD]

You really don't think the fans who are watching the Leafs rebuild and the Sabres rebuild are having a different experience compared to us?

Of course they are. Here's why:

Buffalo Sabres: Missed playoffs last 5 years, have not won a playoff round in 9 years, have not won a Cup ever (46 seasons)

Toronto Maple Leafs: Missed the playoffs 10 of last 11 years, have gotten out of the 1st round once in 13 years, have not won a Cup in fifty years.

So, yes, I am without doubt that those two teams with those two histories have fan bases who are experiencing this season differently than Detroit is. Those two fanbases are likely to have a combined CENTURY without a Cup win between them, if not longer. I can only imagine how their perspectives are different.

They generally like what they're seeing. They know they're supposed to suck right now. They see progress, they see a plan, they see the pieces coming together.

We don't.

They should. Their franchises have been desolate of actual success for generations. For fans of Detroit to be so howlingly dissatisfied is, by comparison, the epitome of spoiled contrivance.

I am amazed that this is so beyond your capability to understand. Or maybe I'm not actually. Seems par for the course now that I think about it.

I completely understand why you feel the way you do. There's literally nothing about your opinion that is in any way mystifying. I just think you're wrong, and I think you'll think you were wrong when you get well and truly into it.

It's absolutely astounding anyone could actually think this way.

You should get out more then. Meet some new people. Expand your horizons.

Ultimately I think it just comes down to your apologetics.

An apoplectic condemning apolgetics? Droll.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I'd rather watch a 6-5 loss with a Mantha hat trick on a rebuilding team, than a 2-1 win on a team that has left the priority of winning championships by the roadside.

Now I fully realize that there will be PLENTY of awful games on any rebuilding team. But at the moment, there's not even really any reason to HOPE.

Yes or no, if this team magically had Austin Matthews on it you'd be more hopeful?

 

[Run the Jewels]

The games have been more exciting lately. It's weird when the team actually scores some goals.

Yeah, watching guys like Mantha, Athanasiou and Jensen develop is something new. Athanasiou and Manta look like legitimately good NHL'ers. With Jensen I feel like there is some potential there but I don't know if he'll ever be more than Ouellet or Marchenko, ie bottom pairing guys.

Other than that it's been addition by subtraction with Kronner, Smith, Abby and Helm out of the lineup. Proving once again that signing most of these guys to long-term deals was counter productive. Smith has a nice corsi, maybe you can get something for him at the trade deadline along with Green and Vanek.

You're likely stuck with Kronner, Howie, Abby and Helm but at least you have them for that veteran leadership!

 

[jkutswings]

Yes or no, if this team magically had Austin Matthews on it you'd be more hopeful?

I wish it were as simple as a digital yes or no.

If they had a Matthews and publicly acknowledged they're rebuilding, and stopped the oversigning of average vets and role players... I'd be ecstatic.

If they had a Matthews, but continued to go max cap on meh filler players, to continue their love affair with the 8th seed... I'd have mixed feelings. (I'd enjoy watching Matthews, but I'd probably still want them to miss the playoffs and get some ping pong balls to improve their odds at tacking on another high-end piece or two.)

But I suppose that either scenario is technically better than where the roster is right now, so I guess that's a yes, although the destination is (for me) never independent of the road traveled.

 

[Frk It]

Yes or no, if this team magically had Austin Matthews on it you'd be more hopeful?

Why wouldn't anyone be? That's a critical core piece that we don't have checked off. Slam dunk high end #1 center.

 

[Bench]

Why wouldn't anyone be? That's a critical core piece that we don't have checked off. Slam dunk high end #1 center.

No kidding. I also love the implication Matthews caliber players are acquired "magically" rather than through a deliberate rebuild effort. Toronto game-planned acquiring players like him for the very purpose of being more competitive in the coming years.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Why wouldn't anyone be? That's a critical core piece that we don't have checked off. Slam dunk high end #1 center.

"But at the moment, there's not even really any reason to HOPE."
"Yes or no, if this team magically had Austin Matthews on it you'd be more hopeful?"
"Why wouldn't anyone be?"

 

[HockeyinHD]

No kidding. I also love the implication Matthews caliber players are acquired "magically" rather than through a deliberate rebuild effort.

They landed him by drafting early in one draft.

I had thought my point was evident, but since it requires explanation, here goes:

If all it takes to have hope is to land an early pick, and Detroit's on a track for an early pick, why do people assume a posture of hopelessness?

Toronto game-planned acquiring players like him for the very purpose of being more competitive in the coming years.

Oh, come on. They've sucked for a decade, they got lucky sucking in a particular year where that suckage resulted in a transformational (so far) talent, and then they got double lucky in landing the top overall pick to get him.

 

[jkutswings]

I personally don't have hope in this franchise because at the moment, they are a deadly combination of:

* Missing multiple core pieces that prevent them from true contention for a championship, and
* In denial about both their degree of need for said pieces, and the (un)likelihood of their current approach to ever acquire them

Let's say that tomorrow morning I hypnotized Shanahan into trading Austin Matthews to Detroit for Steve Ott. Purely from a standpoint of talent influx, that's fantastic. But if the Wings' front office then turned around and said, "Hey! Now we can be a bubble team again! Let's deal our 1st round pick for a veteran rental, so we can try to squeak in and lose in the first round!" I'd be furious that they had yet again wasted assets on short-term 'success'.

Admitting that the window has closed is the first step, if only to end this, "smartest guy in the room" smugness by their front office of thinking that their non-traditional (and thus far unsuccessful) tactics are a perfectly reasonable way to build a good team.