Lose for Hughes?

[Scintillating10]

With 5 loses in a row is it time to start preparing for the draft? Focus on the trade deadline?

We have relinquished the final playoff spot in east and only 6 points out of last position in the conference.

Price isn't having a good year. We need left side of defense. A new 4th line. Is it too much to stay in playoff race?

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[DesmondDekker]

Honestly it’s about time. We are way more fun to watch than we have been over the past few years and that’s a big plus personally. Yet we are missing too many quality pieces to compete with top teams. And since we don’t have quality assets to involve in trades that would help us, we should focus on getting younger and building through the draft.

Lose for Hughes is fine, but we can also play like kaka for Kakko.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

If we don't sneak into the playoffs, I think we'll be picking late lottery barring some luck. Should still be able to land one of the top LDs in this draft there though.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Price was horrible but is doing better. The defense was deprived of Weber who just got back. Guys like Byron and Armia will come back.

Meanwhile, a crapload of teams have fired their coach. The Flyers fired their GM and will probably change their approach. The Kings, Oilers and Blues are in total crisis.

Honestly, if I was running things, I wouldn't be wasting my time thinking about a random lottery in July when there are opportunities right now. This isn't a time to prepare the draft (except for Timmins and co.) but rather a time to get creative with offers. All this chaos which affects mostly teams out west is the perfect setup for whichever GM in the east will cease the opportunity.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Kaka for Kakko

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

With 5 loses in a row is it time to start preparing for the draft? Focus on the trade deadline?

We have relinquished the final playoff spot in east and only 6 points out of last position in the conference.

Price isn't having a good year. We need left side of defense. A new 4th line. Is it too much to stay in playoff race?

Jeeze... you change opinion like you change names... ahem

 

[No More Subban]

Guess it's a Habs fan thing to overreact.

When winning, "We are sooo gooood! This team is different from last year!" (I'm guilty of this)

When losing, "might be time to start talking about tanking....."

I would wait for Byron, Armia and Juulsen first. I want to see a healthy lineup. I think we will see the same team again we saw to start the season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Guess it's a Habs fan thing to overreact.

When winning, "We are sooo gooood! This team is different from last year!" (I'm guilty of this)

When losing, "might be time to start talking about tanking....."

I would wait for Byron, Armia and Juulsen first. I want to see a healthy lineup. I think we will see the same team again we saw to start the season.

I'm fairly consistent

Tank on ffs

 

[The Great Weal]

Guess it's a Habs fan thing to overreact.

When winning, "We are sooo gooood! This team is different from last year!" (I'm guilty of this)

When losing, "might be time to start talking about tanking....."

I would wait for Byron, Armia and Juulsen first. I want to see a healthy lineup. I think we will see the same team again we saw to start the season.

The Habs started the season with a record of 4-1-1, followed with 7-8-4. They are trending down and looked gassed. Weber coming back doesn't fix that atrocious LHD and lack of star power up front.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Too good for that. Literally.
Habs are locked in for #10 overall, not #1. barring random miracle.

 

[No More Subban]

I'm fairly consistent

Tank on ffs

Good for you.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Tanking is bad for everybody. I like that the Habs are trying and losing though.

They should sell some players for more 1st round picks when the time comes.

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's what would be best for our team.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's what would be best for our team.

Unless Timmins keeps up his awful draft record. Then it's pointless.

 

[26Mats]

Unless Timmins keeps up his awful draft record. Then it's pointless.

He actually has a top notch record with lottery picks.

 

[The Great Weal]

He actually has a top notch record with lottery picks.

Top notch is a strong term considering he drafted Galchenyuk who did not work out here and Sergachev who has yet to be a consistent top 4 dman. He just hasn't drafted massive busts like he does with his late 1sts in Tinordi and McCarron and probably Scherbak.

 

[DAChampion]

Tanking is fine, I have argued in favor of a genuine rebuild many times. One more elite talent would be great. The farm system is better than I thought it was, so a single additional talent may be enough.

But the Habs have no control on whether they draft 1st or 8th.

 

[DAChampion]

Price was horrible but is doing better. The defense was deprived of Weber who just got back. Guys like Byron and Armia will come back.

Meanwhile, a crapload of teams have fired their coach. The Flyers fired their GM and will probably change their approach. The Kings, Oilers and Blues are in total crisis.

Honestly, if I was running things, I wouldn't be wasting my time thinking about a random lottery in July when there are opportunities right now. This isn't a time to prepare the draft (except for Timmins and co.) but rather a time to get creative with offers. All this chaos which affects mostly teams out west is the perfect setup for whichever GM in the east will cease the opportunity.

I think that you have a legitimate point with Weber.

But not with Byron and Armia. We should expect the team to be missing 2 or 3 players or more at any given time. It's not a handicap to be missing the 6th and 7th best forwards (or whatever), it's the default.

People have been making your point as long as I've been a user of boards. "We'll be better when Higgins/Kostitsyn/Gionta/Eller/Galchenyuk/Byron" comes back. But by the time they're back, somebody else will be gone.

Weber however can credibly be argued to be the best player on the team, and easily as one of the top 3 or 4. That kind of absence is common, but not the norm.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Byron is exactly the type of player that needs to be traded when his stock is still high. His inability to generate shots means he's gonna no-show come playoff time. His value is precisely to take advantage of some dumb GM who only sees stats but not the game behind the stats.

 

[The Great Weal]

Tanking is fine, I have argued in favor of a genuine rebuild many times. One more elite talent would be great. The farm system is better than I thought it was, so a single additional talent may be enough.

But the Habs have no control on whether they draft 1st or 8th.

You arent winning a cup just by picking top 10. You need to find at least one key piece outside the first imo. The only good piece Timmins has found is Gallagher since 2008. That's so bad.

 

[The Great Weal]

Byron is exactly the type of player that needs to be traded when his stock is still high. His inability to generate shots means he's gonna no-show come playoff time. His value is precisely to take advantage of some dumb GM who only sees stats but not the game behind the stats.

That byron extension means that he isnt getting traded. I'd honestly move up with our 2nds to get another 1st. We need quality badly.

 

[26Mats]

Top notch is a strong term considering he drafted Galchenyuk who did not work out here and Sergachev who has yet to be a consistent top 4 dman. He just hasn't drafted massive busts like he does with his late 1sts in Tinordi and McCarron and probably Scherbak.

You have to take into consideration who else was available when you look at who he's drafted with his lottery picks. He plucked McDonagh and Price out of drafts when there was crap drafted around them. Galchenyuk is one of the best players of that first round, and the book is still out on how productive he'll be. Sergachev was a sensation in junior and a sensation last year. Now all of a sudden he has 7 assists in his sophomore year as a 20 year old and it's surprising he's yet to be consistent as a top 4 dman. The book is still out on him.

And as far as late 1st round picks, his record is less good. But every single scout in the history of drafting has massive late 1st round busts. Without having a precise percentage, from eyeballing things, I'd guesstimate only 1/3 of late first rounders become top 6 forwards or top 4 dmen, and it's probably lower than that. If Poehling and Juulsen come through, that's his batting average 1 out of every 3.

 

[DAChampion]

You arent winning a cup just by picking top 10. You need to find at least one key piece outside the first imo. The only good piece Timmins has found is Gallagher since 2008. That's so bad.

I never implied that an additional elite talent will be sufficient for the Habs to compete for the Cup. However, it is necessary for the Habs to compete for the Cup.

Whether they need more than that indeed follows on the eventual result of the rest of the farm system. If Brook, Fleury, Suzuki, Poehling, etc are as good as our farm watchers say they are, then it might be.

Further, if those guys are as good as people say, it means that 2019 and possibly 2020 are the last year that the Habs can draft in the lottery. From 2020 or 2021 onwards, they'll be a bubble team at worst.

 

[The Great Weal]

You have to take into consideration who else was available when you look at who he's drafted with his lottery picks. He plucked McDonagh and Price out of drafts when there was crap drafted around them. Galchenyuk is one of the best players of that first round, and the book is still out on how productive he'll be. Sergachev was a sensation in junior and a sensation last year. Now all of a sudden he has 7 assists in his sophomore year as a 20 year old and it's surprising he's yet to be consistent as a top 4 dman. The book is still out on him.

And as far as late 1st round picks, his record is less good. But every single scout in the history of drafting has massive late 1st round busts. Without having a precise percentage, from eyeballing things, I'd guesstimate only 1/3 of late first rounders become top 6 forwards or top 4 dmen, and it's probably lower than that. If Poehling and Juulsen come through, that's his batting average 1 out of every 3.

I'm not going before 2008 as I think a decade is more than enough to judge what he has done.

Galchenyuk was a fine pick,but I look at Rielly and get jealous.

Sergachev wa a fine pick,but I look at McAvoy and get jealous.

This means that his top picks are fine and definitely not top notch.

His record late 1st is absolutely horrendous. Just going by his latest 1st rounders from 2009, he picked back(Leblanc) to back(Tinordi) to back(Beaulieu) busts. Then he gets a 3rd overall pick which I dont think should really count too much. Then he continues his pattern with another back(McCarron) to back(Scherbak) busts.

Poehling looks good, but many players in that draft are looking good. Most notably Tolvanen and Jokiharju who I think are ahead of Poehling.

Juulsen seems fine too, but is he better than a Beauvillier or Dermot? Not too sure.

 

[The Great Weal]

I never implied that an additional elite talent will be sufficient for the Habs to compete for the Cup.

Oh for sure, I was just building on what you said.