Looking ahead - The 2019-20 roster thread

[Rebels57]

if we strike out on the big fish, at F I would just look to see if you could grab a middle 6 guy cheap from a team wanting to shed cap. These guys have 1 year left and could be stopgaps to Farabee/Frost.

Marleau: has NMC so likely won't waive. But 36 points this year
Eakin: has 37 points this year
Frolik: 31 points in 56 games
Koivu: 29 points in 48 games
Hoffman: 64 points likely costs more, but with Florida, you never know

Obviously these guys have different trade values but you might be able to grab one to get you 35-45 points on a 3rd line if you want Farabee/Frost to start the year in the AHL.

A couple of years with Koivu as 3C with Frost on the RW would be interesting, and take some defensive burden off of Patrick and Coots.

 

[bauer]

Anyone else of the opinion that Karlsson isn't leaving SJ?

yeah he'll probably stay. which is why the focus should be on acquiring Trouba or Spurgeon.

 

[landsbergfan]

I'm not getting that aspect of it. Just who should be PP QB1 if both are on the team in 19-20?

The PP runs through Giroux...so I never really understood the PP QB thing. Having Ghost and Karlsson at the point wouldn't make it harder for them to feed Giroux for the one timer either.

IMO the PP struggles the most when the only two realistic scoring threats are Giroux one timer and Giroux pass towards the slot/net front. They need someone to else to be a scoring threat to spread the defense around. How could Ghost and Karlsson together not help that?

note: he isn't coming here

 

[landsbergfan]

yeah he'll probably stay. which is why the focus should be on acquiring Trouba or Spurgeon.

or, ya know....not acquiring one of them.

I fully stand by the notion that the biggest weakness on this team is up the middle of the ice*. Not having a legit 2C/3C next year will pose a bigger threat to not making the playoffs than a veteran defenseman to play in the top 4

*unless Patrick is a legit 40-50 ES point guy

 

[JojoTheWhale]

if we strike out on the big fish, at F I would just look to see if you could grab a middle 6 guy cheap from a team wanting to shed cap. These guys have 1 year left and could be stopgaps to Farabee/Frost.

Marleau: has NMC so likely won't waive. But 36 points this year
Eakin: has 37 points this year
Frolik: 31 points in 56 games
Koivu: 29 points in 48 games
Hoffman: 64 points likely costs more, but with Florida, you never know

Obviously these guys have different trade values but you might be able to grab one to get you 35-45 points on a 3rd line if you want Farabee/Frost to start the year in the AHL.

Koivu's phenomenal defensively, but he's currently injured and it might be career-threatening. He's 35 and it's an ACL + meniscus. Nothing against the player at all.

Taking Marleau would be a huge help to Toronto and he's at absolute best a 3rd liner at this point. He's a serious drag on possession, his entries/exits have completely fallen off a cliff, etc. Marleau would be a Filppula name value redux.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

or, ya know....not acquiring one of them.

I fully stand by the notion that the biggest weakness on this team is up the middle of the ice. Not having a legit 2C/3C next year will pose a bigger threat to not making the playoffs than a veteran defenseman to play in the top 4

Both are big holes. But you are absolutely right that adding a good center is a much bigger need for next season than the attention it seems to get.

 

[deadhead]

A couple of years with Koivu as 3C with Frost on the RW would be interesting, and take some defensive burden off of Patrick and Coots.

Frost is LH, played LW in the WJC for some reason, but he's a pure center, makes no sense to move him to wing.

He's the kind of player who needs the puck to be effective, he's not going to dig the puck out of corners, and his skill set makes him most valuable in the center of the ice (speed, hockey IQ, passing skills).

I'd live with growing pains with Farabee - Frost - TK.
They could be sheltered on the 3rd line, but they'd give most bottom six lines fits.

Frost isn't Vorobyev or Bunnaman or Rubtsov, he's not a question mark that needs a couple years in the AHL to marinate.

He's probably the top forward in junior hockey, he's performed on the big stage at the WJC out of position, he's done about everything a prospect can do. He might not be Marner, but he's probably not far from being Barzal. If Frost isn't NHL ready, when will he be?

 

[bauer]

or, ya know....not acquiring one of them.

I fully stand by the notion that the biggest weakness on this team is up the middle of the ice*. Not having a legit 2C/3C next year will pose a bigger threat to not making the playoffs than a veteran defenseman to play in the top 4

*unless Patrick is a legit 40-50 ES point guy

who says you can't go after both?

 

[Tripod]

A couple of years with Koivu as 3C with Frost on the RW would be interesting, and take some defensive burden off of Patrick and Coots.

See, I would only want Koivu for 1 year and then hand the reigns over to Frost.

Koivu's phenomenal defensively, but he's currently injured and it might be career-threatening. He's 35 and it's an ACL + meniscus. Nothing against the player at all.

Taking Marleau would be a huge help to Toronto and he's at absolute best a 3rd liner at this point. He's a serious drag on possession, his entries/exits have completely fallen off a cliff, etc. Marleau would be a Filppula name value redux.

Thanks for the info. I honestly did not dig any deeper than look at the UFA's in summer 2020 and see who was on teams that could be looking to dump some cap.

We are just in that weird spot where we could need a C if Frost is not ready and if Patrick can't be consistent. Or we could be great at C if Patrick plays well all season and Frost takes advantage of easier matchups. What if Frost is the next Barzal. Not likely. But Keller and his 65 point rookie season. Or even 45 this year. Debrincat in his draft +2 season getting 52 points. Frost will be in his draft +3.

If Patrick had a consistent year this year, it would make me more comfortable going into next year with Frost as the #3. We just can't have another year where our #2 and #3C struggle for half the year. And if we added a 1 year stopgap, it gives us options.

 

[deadhead]

We got 98 points with Filppula as #2 and rookie Patrick #3.

I'm more interested in a veteran center between Laughton and Hartman, if Frost struggles, that line can get more minutes, when Frost rebounds, he gets more minutes.

I'm not worried about Patrick, more growing pains than I would like, but he's only 20, he's still filling out, and has the work ethic and high IQ that makes flopping unlikely (most top picks who bottom out have problems with intelligence, work ethic or low motors).

 

[Striiker]

I'm not getting that aspect of it. Just who should be PP QB1 if both are on the team in 19-20?

Both.

Giroux
Voracek
JVR
Ghost
EK

 

[landsbergfan]

who says you can't go after both?

The salary cap

 

[bauer]

The salary cap

we have more than enough cap space to make it happen. that's not an issue.

 

[Tripod]

We got 98 points with Filppula as #2 and rookie Patrick #3.

I'm more interested in a veteran center between Laughton and Hartman, if Frost struggles, that line can get more minutes, when Frost rebounds, he gets more minutes.

I'm not worried about Patrick, more growing pains than I would like, but he's only 20, he's still filling out, and has the work ethic and high IQ that makes flopping unlikely (most top picks who bottom out have problems with intelligence, work ethic or low motors).

No one thinks, or should think Patrick is a flop. But he 100% needs to be better from Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan

last 2 years during those 4 months: 85 games, 28 points. That's a 27 point pace.
Last 2 years Feb/Mar/April: 53 games, 32 points. That's a 50 point pace.

We need that 50 point pace Patrick right from game 1 next year. W have seen in both year he has it in him to do it over a couple of months. He needs to bring it for the full year.

 

[Stizzle]

The salary cap

I blame morons like this for pushing the narrative of splashy moves being more important than hiring a coach.



The media says we have oodles of cap space. Which, is technically correct, but also misleading.

ELC's ending this offseason...
Konecny
Provorov
Sanheim

Next offseason...
Patrick
Lindblom
Myers

we have more than enough cap space to make it happen. that's not an issue.

Wrong.

 

[baudib1]

Both.

Giroux
Voracek
JVR
Ghost
EK

Yeah if you get Karlsson it's a no-brainer to me to put both he and Ghost on PP1.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Giroux Couts TK
Oskar Nolan Jake
JVR Frost Deuce
Laught Pimp NAK

Provy Trouba ( traded 13th pick to Jets, signed 7 yrs 6.8 per )
Sanheim Myers
Ghost Gudas
Morin

Hart
Elliot

At least one Burner on each forward line, and every D man less Gudas are above average skaters and puck movers.

Note, no more old slop, Gudas is the only question mark to be over played

 

[Stizzle]

See, I would only want Koivu for 1 year and then hand the reigns over to Frost.

Unnecessary levels of risk aversion imo. Play the kid. Let him grow. Who cares if it costs the team slightly in the short run. In the long run, that experience will pay off.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I blame morons like this for pushing the narrative of splashy moves being more important than hiring a coach.



The media says we have oodles of cap space. Which, is technically correct, but also misleading.

ELC's ending this offseason...
Konecny
Provorov
Sanheim

Next offseason...
Patrick
Lindblom
Myers

2C? f*** you. Patrick/Frost should be fine with being 2C/3C or flip flop them. Winger, I could see. Panarin could be huge, but he would cost so much money and would want a long contract. We have 32M in cap space, but I don't think putting 10 to 12 million on him in cap space is our answer, but there aren't many out there. Also, for top pairing D, we f***ing have it, we just need a better f***ing system and a better coach.

 

[landsbergfan]

I blame morons like this for pushing the narrative of splashy moves being more important than hiring a coach.

Yuuuup. Same guy that posts incorrect information and blatant lack of understanding of advanced stats too

 

[Striiker]

Unnecessary levels of risk aversion imo. Play the kid. Let him grow. Who cares if it costs the team slightly in the short run. In the long run, that experience will pay off.

If we add a vet all that’ll happen is Frost will be pushed down the lineup and wasted, the same way Sanheim was to start this year and all of last year.

The whole idea of “add a vet for insurance and then replace him with Frost if he’s ready” is fine in theory, but we know better than to think a coach or GM will do the right thing and make room for a young guy simply because he outplays a vet.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

2C? **** you. Patrick/Frost should be fine with being 2C/3C or flip flop them. Winger, I could see. Panarin could be huge, but he would cost so much money and would want a long contract. We have 32M in cap space, but I don't think putting 10 to 12 million on him in cap space is our answer, but there aren't many out there. Also, for top pairing D, we ****ing have it, we just need a better ****ing system and a better coach.

He’s right about 2C & top pairing D. I don’t think they need a sniping wing on top of that, though.

Acting like they don’t need another stud C because of Patrick & Frost is falling into the same trap as this season — overrating young players & expecting they can excel in huge roles in an extremely deep East.

Patrick hasn’t put together a full season yet. Has never scored 40 points.

Frost has never played a game in the NHL.

If you’re expecting to compete with teams that have Crosby/Malkin, Matthews/Tavares/Kadri, & Stamkos/Point down the middle, you better do more than Patrick/Frost at 2/3C next season.

 

[Rebels57]

2C? **** you. Patrick/Frost should be fine with being 2C/3C or flip flop them. Winger, I could see. Panarin could be huge, but he would cost so much money and would want a long contract. We have 32M in cap space, but I don't think putting 10 to 12 million on him in cap space is our answer, but there aren't many out there. Also, for top pairing D, we ****ing have it, we just need a better ****ing system and a better coach.

I really dont understand this line of thinking. If you want a top player, and you can afford them, pay them. They help you win. Underpay your bottom 6 guys to make up for it if you get into a cap bind down the line. The cap goes up almost every year. There are contracts ending every year. We can easily afford Panarin, even up to $12 million per.

 

[Tripod]

Unnecessary levels of risk aversion imo. Play the kid. Let him grow. Who cares if it costs the team slightly in the short run. In the long run, that experience will pay off.

Again, it's not me. It's if THEY think Frost needs time in the AHL. I am 100% ok going with Patrick and Frost at #2/3C for next year. But in no way do I see them going Patrick, Frost, Pimp as our 2-4 centers. They just won't do it. One vet will be added for 1 of those spots.

 

[baudib1]

Again, it's not me. It's if THEY think Frost needs time in the AHL. I am 100% ok going with Patrick and Frost at #2/3C for next year. But in no way do I see them going Patrick, Frost, Pimp as our 2-4 centers. They just won't do it. One vet will be added for 1 of those spots.

I'm with you on this totally.

I can understand the argument that they might be better off with a veteran C for next year (I'm down with a Spurgeon + Koivu trade). But signing someone like Hayes to a big contract just seems disastrous to me. Even Duchene -- and I'm not going to complain if they sign him -- but it severely limits ice time for Patrick and Frost now and in the future.

The Flyers have to fully commit to Patrick and Frost. If they're not going to be good centers in the NHL then we have to just blow the whole thing up in two years.