Confirmed with Link: Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

[Stephen]

JFJ was probably the worst GM in the history of mankind.

He sucked, but the regime changes since then haven't exactly yielded huge results for the better when the team is still in the same place in the standings, and guys like Rask, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Stalberg, Stralman still represent some of our best drafting, even though the front office is way more bloated nowadays.

 

[The Magic Man]

If you do that and can keep the prices low(ish), then I think you see Buffalo take a huge hit.

I live in Hamilton and I don't know to many people that go to BUF games. I know a lot more that go to the ACC at twice the cost. There may be more closer to the border though.

Besides, BUF has 1.2M people in the Niagara-Buffalo area.

He sucked, but the regime changes since then haven't exactly yielded huge results for the better when the team is still in the same place in the standings, and guys like Rask, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Stalberg, Stralman still represent some of our best drafting, even though the front office is way more bloated nowadays.

Look at that list of talent and tell me how many organizations pulled more pro talent out of those drafts then JFJ and his guys. It seems like a lot to me.

I'm gonna research it.

 

[Mess]

We can only compare before the cap and after the cap. Correct?

We have lived through the absolute worst stretch of Leafs hockey in existence.

If it isn't the cap then it is the management.

Well under the last Cap World CBA it saw MLSE spending to the Cap ceiling and finishing out of the playoffs and in the bottom 5 overall, while Phoenix only barely affording to spend to the Cap floor on life support, to advance to the final 4 in the playoffs. Some would say Bettman believes that his salary cap CBA is working perfectly for parity for all, utilizing MLSE financial muscle to his own agenda, if the end game is 30 healthy NHL franchises, regardless if poor locations is the real problem, and not player salaries.

Those Leafs fans supporting Ownership in this current battle can live vicariously through Phoenix's success, because after all its MLSE revenue sharing money, that originally came from them that is keeping Phoenix alive and well and prospering on and off the ice.

Phoenix can only benefit even further in this next CBA as the suggested Owner take-backs is only going to neuter MLSE even more, by lowering the Cap ceiling itself and spending habits of the rich with increased player contracting limits enforced to curb spending further on self improvement, while increased revenue sharing $$ propping up spending of Leafs opponents in the process.

If the Leafs management struggled under the current CBA, then its only going to get harder from here on in to find success with ever greater restrictions enforced. Now contract mistakes can be buried in the AHL and off the cap and that may also change if Bettman gets his way.

 

[The Magic Man]

I'm not sure when JFJ took over the draft, but this is how the drafts go from 2005-2007:

2005:
1st: Tukka Rask
7th Anton Stralman

2006:
1st: Jiri Tlusty
2nd: Nikolai Kulemin
4th: James Reimer
4th: Korbinian Holzer
6th Victor Stalberg
6th: Leo Komarov

2007:
4th: Matt Frattin
7th: Carl Gunnarson

I'd really like to know who ran the 2006 draft choices. That is one of the best drafts I've ever seen. If Komarov and Holzer make it as they seem that's one player (Tyler Ruegsergger) out of 7 that doesn't make it to the NHL. That's incredible. I really think JFJ doesn't get enough credit.

Anyone know where he is working today? I'd like to review his current work.

 

[p.l.f.]

-they'll meet after boxing day
-come to agreement by new yrs
-have a 48 game season starting mid january

 

[Anthrax442]

He sucked, but the regime changes since then haven't exactly yielded huge results for the better when the team is still in the same place in the standings, and guys like Rask, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson, Stalberg, Stralman still represent some of our best drafting, even though the front office is way more bloated nowadays.

Maybe, but out of this lot, Rask is the only one who hit some success, and still we don't know how will he perform now that he is the #1 starter. Frattin and Kulemin are very good 3rd liners, Gunnarson is #5D, Stalberg and Stralman are journeymen. Reimer most likely will be a backup. We have nothing to show for Rask.

 

[rimshot]

why are there? I mean it's a dessert no ice lol... Why does Florida have 2 teams and Toronto has 1? lol That makes as much sense as putting the Winter Olympics in Arizona

A dessert with no ice? Probably a chocolate pudding.

 

[Leafs For Life*]

Maybe, but out of this lot, Rask is the only one who hit some success, and still we don't know how will he perform now that he is the #1 starter. Frattin and Kulemin are very good 3rd liners, Gunnarson is #5D, Stalberg and Stralman are journeymen. Reimer most likely will be a backup. We have nothing to show for Rask.

lol Gunnarson is our #2 sadly. Would be a solid #4.

 

[The Magic Man]

lol Gunnarson is our #2 sadly. Would be a solid #4.

Gunnarson is a great top 4 D man. Good size, intelligent play. A true "minute eater." Nothing spectacular, nothing wrong with his game. He was an excellent draft selection for a 7th rounder and someone the scouts should be proud of finding.

 

[rimshot]

Why does Phoenix deserve a team when they won't support one today with near lowest ticket prices and one that won the Pacific division.

I believe the playoff games were sell-outs and the games near the end of the season were well attended too. I don't think any place but Toronto would support the Coyote Ugly team that was Phoenix until they were turned around by the coaching staff.Who would you have paid to see?
The real test would have been whether or not they maintained that support this season. We may never know now as the lock-out has destroyed any momentum the team created coming out of the playoffs.

 

[TMLife*]

A dessert with no ice? Probably a chocolate pudding.

Any kind of pudding really

 

[ULF_55]

I believe the playoff games were sell-outs and the games near the end of the season were well attended too. I don't think any place but Toronto would support the Coyote Ugly team that was Phoenix until they were turned around by the coaching staff.Who would you have paid to see?
The real test would have been whether or not they maintained that support this season. We may never know now as the lock-out has destroyed any momentum the team created coming out of the playoffs.

Two years a row in the playoffs and no support after the first year in the playoffs.

Seriously, they don't care. Showing up for a few playoffs game is not supporting your team it is being a band-wagoner.

 

[rimshot]

Two years a row in the playoffs and no support after the first year in the playoffs.

Seriously, they don't care. Showing up for a few playoffs game is not supporting your team it is being a band-wagoner.

Considering that the only time the Coyotes made the front page of the newspaper was with the word " potential bankrupcy" or "NHL owned" or "Glendale taxpayer subsidized" or "Goldwater Foundation law suit". I doubt that a baseball team could thrive here with the ownership instability the Coyotes have endured. By your analysis Minnesota does not deserve a team nor does Winnipeg or Quebec.

 

[ULF_55]

Some data for perspective on teams viability.

Team|Div|Points|Total Attendance |Per Game|% Capacity|Avg Ticket $
PHOENIX|PAC|97|509,241|12,420|72.5|36.15
DALLAS|PAC|89|583,306|14,226|76.8|29.95
COLUMBUS|CEN|65|601,061|14,660|80.8|47.95
NY ISLANDERS|ATL|79|540,838|13,191|81.3|49.06
CAROLINA|SE|82|657,747|16,042|85.9|41.58
COLORADO|NW|88|635,440|15,498|86.1|40.62
ANAHEIM|PAC|80|605,171|14,760|86.4|36.94
FLORIDA|SE|94|681,763|16,628|86.6|55.67
NEW JERSEY|ATL|102|631,258|15,396|87.4|45.86
TAMPA BAY|SE|84|757,192|18,468|96.2|37.73
NASHVILLE|CEN|104|684,324|16,690|97.5|51.04
ST. LOUIS|CEN|109|771,207|18,809|98.2|41.57
MINNESOTA|NW|81|728,683|17,772|98.4|62.63
BUFFALO|NE|89|760,558|18,550|99.9|38.25
WINNIPEG|SE|84|615,164|15,004|100|98.27
EDMONTON|NW|74|690,399|16,839|100|70.13
SAN JOSE|PAC|96|720,076|17,562|100|49.73
BOSTON|NE|102|720,145|17,564|100|58.94
LOS ANGELES|PAC|95|734,736|17,920|100|51.92
NY RANGERS|ATL|109|745,852|18,191|100|66.20
CALGARY|NW|90|790,849|19,289|100|68.18
MONTRÉAL|NE|78|872,193|21,273|100|88.67
DETROIT|CEN|102|824,706|20,114|100.7|53.28
OTTAWA|NE|92|793,612|19,356|101.1|55.51
WASHINGTON|SE|92|758,746|18,506|101.3|62.42
VANCOUVER|NW|111|774,250|18,884|102.5|68.38
PITTSBURGH|ATL|108|761,224|18,566|102.7|63.06
TORONTO|NE|80|799,786|19,506|103.7|123.77
CHICAGO|CEN|101|882,874|21,533|105|55.72
PHILADELPHIA|ATL|103|837,754|20,433|107.4|66.89

If local economies are in the tank you can see why some teams have to price their product so cheaply.

The question is whether that is a permanent situation, or is it a blip. Look at Buffalo, good attendance but one of the lowest prices.

Winnipeg has an undersized arena's and charges a premium for their product.

Considering that the only time the Coyotes made the front page of the newspaper was with the word " potential bankrupcy" or "NHL owned" or "Glendale taxpayer subsidized" or "Goldwater Foundation law suit". I doubt that a baseball team could thrive here with the ownership instability the Coyotes have endured. By your analysis Minnesota does not deserve a team nor does Winnipeg or Quebec.

Okay, can you point out how the attendance in Winnipeg, and Minnesota has anything to do with the lack of attendance in Phoenix?

 

[Anthrax442]

I cannot believe Dallas is such a poor market.

 

[rimshot]

Okay, can you point out how the attendance in Winnipeg, and Minnesota has anything to do with the lack of attendance in Phoenix?

I was referring to three cities that lost their franchises (Stars,Jets and Nordiques) and their teams experienced a "lack of support" when it became evident that they were going to move. Why would anyone buy a seasons ticket for a team that probably will be on the move. There are reasons for franchise failure or success well beyond attendance figures.
Your statement that there is something inherently wrong with the support for NHL hockey in this area is without foundation.

 

[rimshot]

I cannot believe Dallas is such a poor market.

Ownership is in crisis. Nix is probably done as the owner. There may be new owners now but last year ownership instability trumped team prospects.

 

[ULF_55]

I was referring to three cities that lost their franchises (Stars,Jets and Nordiques) and their teams experienced a "lack of support" when it became evident that they were going to move. Why would anyone buy a seasons ticket for a team that probably will be on the move. There are reasons for franchise failure or success well beyond attendance figures.
Your statement that there is something inherently wrong with the support for NHL hockey in this area is without foundation.

Coyotes were in trouble long before the league turned down Basillie's money.

 

[Anthrax442]

Coyotes were in trouble long before the league turned down Basillie's money.

I don't think they've ever established themselves.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

Over $666 MILLION DOLLARS in PA salaries lost!!!!!!!

Millions lost in workers wages related to the NHL and millions more lost by business's related to the NHL!!!!!!!!

Millions lost in NHL merchandise sales on and on!!!!!!!!

When are these PA fools going to wake up and fire this clown good job Donald Fehr!!!!!!!!

 

[anderson3133]

Over $666 MILLION DOLLARS in PA salaries lost!!!!!!!

Millions lost in workers wages related to the NHL and millions more lost by business's related to the NHL!!!!!!!!

Millions lost in NHL merchandise sales on and on!!!!!!!!

When are these PA fools going to wake up and fire this clown good job Donald Fehr!!!!!!!!

702 of 728 voted in favour of the disclaimer... he's not going anywhere anytime soon

Also, this is a lockout, not a strike.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

702 of 728 voted in favour of the disclaimer... he's not going anywhere anytime soon..

Best of luck to the PA and Fehr with the disclaimer!!!!!

 

[anderson3133]

Best of luck to the PA and Fehr with the disclaimer!!!!!

Why are you so butthurt over this whole thing? It's life and it's part of labour relations.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Fehr says that the holidays won't impede meetings and negotiations. It's Christmas and no talks are being planned. Bill Daly, yes, there will be a season but no talks planned. The fans are being taken for a ride here. No way the NHL or the PA deserves a dime of the fans' money. I can live without the NHL, I don't think they can live without us. I won't be depriving myself of anything if I stop watching the NHL. It's a joke league.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I was just on vacation from December 3rd - December 22nd and in that time the majority of lockout news I got was from the ESPN ticker and TSN Mobile when I was able to read it on my BlackBerry. Anyway I remember hearing how in mid December when everyone thought the NHL and NHLPA were close to a deal, then all of the sudden things went bad with the talks. Last night when I was watching the TSN Year In Review show they showed a clip of Donlad Fehr saying talks took a turn for the worse and Gary Bettman saying they were never close to a deal. So I'm wondering were they actually close to a deal or not, because why would Bettman says something like that?