GDT: LIV | "Californiasuffocation" | Oilers vs. Sharks | 2.10.18 | 8:00PM | HNIC

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think anybody is disputing the body of work this season. Everything is going wrong in 2017-28. People defending Klefbom are looking to next season. My judgement on the 2 players you mentioned is Klefbom is worth giving a chance to, and Lucic is in true regression. What we saw from Klef at 23 is more likely to resurface. What we are seeing from Lucic at 29 is more likely to be the norm going forward. One is playing poor with Benning who has been our worst d-man all year. The other is playing poor all while getting consistent opportunities with McD or Drai.

The shoulder thing that's been bothering him all season.
Oscar Klefbom latest Oilers defenceman to hit injured reserve
"He's been playing sore and hurt for a while" - McLellan
Oscar himself mentioned in a pre-game after one of the breaks that it's been a struggle all year getting healthy.

I don't know how you can call last season anything but a success for Klefbom. 38 points, 6 PIM, +7, 201 shots, 16 PP points. Not to mention he was playing far more aggressive and breaking the cycle more often. Maybe wasn't in your core, but I had the following:

McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Talbot, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse

I think Maroon in the core is a mistake. I know you're a fan, won't belittle it, just my opinion that he is also in regression. Slower, disengaged, lazier, offside all the time. Support player at best, open to re-signing him on a cheap contract.

Agree on Chia. He's shredded the team's depth.

I really believe Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse are 3 strong pieces of a top 4 going forward.
Been crapping on the former 2 all season for their lacklustre play for sure, but with the season lost, I'm open to moving a few names well before a young defenseman who's had an off year.

Thank you for the well thought out reply as per usual. Its a pleasure being able to actually have discussion on peoples relative views. I'm going to try to not have that discussion continue here, but in the Klefbom thread if that is Ok as I acknowledge (sorry) theres been enough specific Klefbom focus in the PGT.

As to pts and shots that is not breakout in my view. I've expressed that Tom Gilbert had a 46 pt season here and I'm one of the very few fans he had here. Most people here hated the player. nor is 201 shots indicative. Klefbom is being told by the coaching staff to shoot everything. He's even being told to have it as a goal of shooting 250 shots this season. I have concerns with that. Shots should be quality, not volume. The goal is goal creation, not shot creation.

I love the comments like the bolded and this is exactly the type of reply i'm looking for. If you ever wanted to inform me of some more on the player I would appreciate it, sincerely, and I will look for more. I have had, by my own acknowledgement, difficulty discerning what the player is bringing to the table as I have stated. I think we all see this or that player and what they bring differently. I'm reasonably good at assessing some players, but not all players. I don't comprehend klefboms game. I admit that. So thank you again.

 

[StevenF1919]

I do thank you for posting this. Its an actual reply to what I asked. Good on you, your the only one to have cited anything.

however, and this is just me, I'm not a fan of analytical stats and which I feel can often be misleading. Pouliot was said to be a great puck possession player and analytics darling and so on.

In anycase is there one thing specifically you would want to cite in the above or that you feel is significant? I'm not familiar at all with these graphs. I don't know what any of the graph really means, at all. I watch hockey. I don't perform by proxy statistical calculations on it.

That said Klef is on a team that is telling people to shoot the puck in almost any situation. That is telling him to shoot the puck in almost any situation. The Oilers even challenged Klef to get off 250 shots this year as an end goal. I don't even see the point in that. The object is to create goals, not to pad shots on the net. Klef has 150 sog this season and 3 goals. Nor are his shots creating scrambles or rebounds or opportunities. Basically negligible offense he's generating. Now as far as EVGA/60mins the numbers are regularly high. Worst on the team for D this season and last.

Most of the above graph and advanced stats seems based on shots which can be very misleading. Graphs like this can be similarly misleading. Certainly the info, as presented is not easily discernible or intuitive.

The first graph shows his 5v5 stats compared to an average #1 defenseman. He's a bit below average in icetime, above average in goals and first assists, and average in shot generation and suppression. I'm only familiar with a couple parts of the 2nd graph so maybe someone else can fill in the rest but the WOWY part shows that Klefbom's linemates post better corsi and expected goals for with him on the ice. The performance tiers show various stats compared to average bottom pairing, second pairing, and top pairing dmen. He's comfortably in the top pairing category for all of them.

Not every stat is perfect but HERO charts give a good idea of how a player compares to others around the league. Klefbom has been consistently excellent in possession throughout his career. I think his shoulder injury definitely hampers his ability to take effective shots but last year he was consistently scoring EV goals and putting dangerous shots on net. His overall play has been really awful this year but he's been fantastic every other year since he came into the league. I think the best plan would be to shut him down for the season to recover from his injury and pencil him in as the #2 LHD behind Nurse next year. Trading him now while his value is low is going to end up exactly like the Petry trade.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't think Klefbom should be traded. I just no longer think he has what it takes to be a #1 defensemen. A good #3 absolutely. What we really need is a top pairing right shot defensemen to play with Nurse.

Nurse - New Guy
Klefbom - Larsson
Blank - Blank

Sekera will probably have to go to clear cap space for the new guy, especially if his career takes a step back due to his injury.
For example

Nurse - Green
Klefbom - Larsson

Green is a pretty damn good offensive guy, and a vet so he and Nurse would make a good pairing. Klefbom and Larsson were great last year and I think both of these top pairings could take similar minutes.

 

[McShogun99]

Who wanted him traded? All I see is a bunch of reaction. From what I'm reading one individual stated they wanted him traded. I haven't spotted one post to that effect.

Really whats occurring here is Oilers fans biting each others head off over team results here and that's unfortunate.

I just wouldn’t put it past PC to trade Klefbom for some help on the wing. Our untouchables should be Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom and Larsson. None of these 5 should be traded unless it’s for an overpay. Obviously Mcdavid should never be traded no matter what.

 

[Alfie]

Go oilers go

 

[McShogun99]

We also need to find a way to convince Lucic and one of Sekera or Russel to waive their NTC. They just aren’t worth what they are bringing to the team right now. Sekera gets a pass because of his injury but who knows if he will return to his previous level of play at his age.

 

[Tyrolean]

We also need to find a way to convince Lucic and one of Sekera or Russel to waive their NTC. They just aren’t worth what they are bringing to the team right now. Sekera gets a pass because of his injury but who knows if he will return to his previous level of play at his age.

Lucic should be the first one of that group to leave If Chia can't do it he should be fired.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

What an utterly loathesome team. 0 points in California and two games pissed away in the dying minutes. Goaltending upgrade is a must in the offseason. Maybe Chia can add Montoya to his selling list.

 

[Staghorn]

What an utterly loathesome team. 0 points in California and two games pissed away in the dying minutes. Goaltending upgrade is a must in the offseason. Maybe Chia can add Montoya to his selling list.

I cringed when they got Montoya - not because I don't like him, but we're stuck with him for next year now... Gonna have to ride that extra contract year. I think we could - and did - do much much worse, but nevertheless nobody's going to trade for Montoya with other quality one year and cheaper options out there. We're f*****.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

I can't believe they might give up a fourth for Inigo if he only plays a few more games. There's Chia just giving away picks like candy again.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I cringed when they got Montoya - not because I don't like him, but we're stuck with him for next year now... Gonna have to ride that extra contract year. I think we could - and did - do much much worse, but nevertheless nobody's going to trade for Montoya with other quality one year and cheaper options out there. We're f*****.

The thing that gets me is that everyone knew for awhile that the backup goalie was an issue. By the time we got one the season was toast.

 

[Jet Walters]

I cringed when they got Montoya - not because I don't like him, but we're stuck with him for next year now... Gonna have to ride that extra contract year. I think we could - and did - do much much worse, but nevertheless nobody's going to trade for Montoya with other quality one year and cheaper options out there. We're f*****.

It's a non issue if they want to bring in another backup. Montoya could be waived and his full cap hit, or very close to it would be off the books. That would be a dumb move because some team would certainly put a claim in, and he still has value as a legitimate backup that someone would give up a pick for, especially with only a year left on his deal.

 

[rboomercat90]

Yup that goal is on Montoya, no doubt. But what a gaff to put the puck off the referees skate. Why the **** was he in the way to begin with. Just stupid. But Montoya was totally off in lala land.

I find it hard to fault Montoya for that one. It was a fluke play that occurred because the official was out of position. That puck changed direction very quickly.

 

[rboomercat90]

Does anybody think the NHL should institute a clause that if a goal is created by inadvertently going off an official it should be immediately called off? Really I think when a play like that happens and it impacts a significant scoring chance the play should be whistled immediately. Play on ice should be about what the players bring. Not an official being in the way and getting an assist on a goal..

I’m not in favour of rule changes for stuff like that. What I think needs to happen is officials either get suspended or sent back down to the American League for being out of position often and affecting the play as a result or for linesmen not having the brains to know when to grab a guy to break up a fight. We’ve seen more screw ups in these areas of officiating this year than I can remember in quite some time. Everybody complains about the poor quality of calls these guys are making but it’s even worse than that. They haven’t mastered the little parts of their jobs either. So many terrible officials in the league right now.

 

[McBeastMode]

Cammalleri shooting an invisible puck.. And you wonder why we are out of the playoffs....

 

[ZJuice]

Cammalleri shooting an invisible puck.. And you wonder why we are out of the playoffs....

That was a set play and you know it!

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Does anybody think the NHL should institute a clause that if a goal is created by inadvertently going off an official it should be immediately called off? Really I think when a play like that happens and it impacts a significant scoring chance the play should be whistled immediately. Play on ice should be about what the players bring. Not an official being in the way and getting an assist on a goal..

I've thought that way myself at times, however is it really any different than a freak bounce off a stanchion or a door? How many stoppages would you see on clearing attempts (etc) and where would you have the faceoff?

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

Yup that goal is on Montoya, no doubt. But what a gaff to put the puck off the referees skate. Why the **** was he in the way to begin with. Just stupid. But Montoya was totally off in lala land.

Not to defend him because it's indefensible, but I believe he was anticipating the puck making it around.

 

[Jet Walters]

That was a set play and you know it!

And didn't Davidson score like 2 seconds after that? Was a smart play by Cam.

 

[fuswald]

Kinda feel bad for San Jose , they're prime years wasted by McLennan coaching

And we're next

 

[DaGap]

There was a better replay during the game. It showed Cam moving his stick away from the puck just before the shot attempt. At the same time the stick change position Draisaitl changed his skating path.

To me it looked like Cam and Drai tried a trick play that worked. Caus ewatch Cam's reaction after the fake shot. He didn't look for the puck he turned to face the sharks player coming in

 

[Gord]

I don't think Klefbom should be traded. I just no longer think he has what it takes to be a #1 defensemen. A good #3 absolutely. What we really need is a top pairing right shot defensemen to play with Nurse.

Nurse - New Guy
Klefbom - Larsson
Blank - Blank

Sekera will probably have to go to clear cap space for the new guy, especially if his career takes a step back due to his injury.
For example

Nurse - Green
Klefbom - Larsson

Green is a pretty damn good offensive guy, and a vet so he and Nurse would make a good pairing. Klefbom and Larsson were great last year and I think both of these top pairings could take similar minutes.

I think part of what bugs drivesaitl about klefbom is the people overrating him. There is too much talk about him being a true #1 and in some cases people calling him elite. He isn't elite

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

this team is the most mentally weak I've ever seen:
-always get scored on early...10 first-shot goals is probably historically bad

10 goals on the first shot against in 54 games has to be a record that will never be broken. It's bordering on ridiculous just like their PK numbers at home.

 

[fuswald]

yeah he covers for klefbom alot i think.

I agree he did though they seemed to compliment each others game. A good pair.
Much like Maroon compliments McDavid (seems that was wasted this year) .

 

[Stoneman89]

I can't believe they might give up a fourth for Inigo if he only plays a few more games. There's Chia just giving away picks like candy again.

No worries, they'll get the 4th back when they trade Maroon.