GDT: LIV | "Californiasuffocation" | Oilers vs. Sharks | 2.10.18 | 8:00PM | HNIC

[48g90a138pts]

The Salo-itus has now infected Montoya too .

Which begs the question: Is the goalie coach to blame or are the goalies' issues between the ears?

Not every goal is on the goalie. It's on everyone for not getting up to start the game. The dmen, forwards, goalie and coaching staff. It's not a individual problem, its a organizational problem.

Way too easy to point the finger at one or a few guys. If it was just a small collection of ppl it wouldn't be this bad, but it's not. Its on everyone to pick up their game and be more prepared.

 

[Verdadplus]

Not every goal is on the goalie. It's on everyone for not getting up to start the game. The dmen, forwards, goalie and coaching staff. It's not a individual problem, its a organizational problem.

Way too easy to point the finger at one or a few guys. If was just a small collection of ppl it wouldn't be this bad, but it's not. Its on everyone to pick up their game and be more prepared.

Montoya on the second goal was as bad an effort as any goalie in hockey this year
He did even look at the play
Gazing off past center ice
Why would deserve to be paid this week?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Congrats on making the most laughable statement of the year. "Klefbom will never be as good as Nurse or Larsson" yet was the best d-man on this team last year when the team went almost to the WCF's. Okay then. And the other statement that you'd take a bunch of fringe NHLers over Klefbom is even more laughable. If this is the level of posting we're going to have here for the rest of the season I guess I need a time out from HF. My brain hurts just from reading this stuff.

As disclosure though I think you are from Sweden, right? Does that impact your assessment of the player in anyway?

But in what way was Klefbom better than Larsson last season? The premise is ridiculous. In what way has Nurse, this season, not been better than Klefbom ever?

I evaluate D first and foremost on their defensive results. That's the starting point for D. If they can transition puck well, handle puck well, skate the puck well, make plays defensively, offensively then those are added intangibles that start adding up to premier D. If they are solid around the net and can shut things down around their cage the you have an elite D.

Klefbom has bad defensive numbers this season, is not producing offense, is not particularly good on transition and is not good with the puck. He's certainly not reliable around his cage.

 

[Drivesaitl]

When he went on the IR just before Christmas they said it was a injury that has been there since before the regular season started. If you're willing to discount that fact, which has been well known, then you are being willfully ignorant about the player. Anything else you say should really be taken with a grain of salt with regards to Klefbom.

Klefboms extenuated injury was due to an infection from the shoulder injury. In otherwords complication of an injury which afairc was first described as a contusion. If people have other clear medical information on what exactly he is suffering from and if it is long term injury than please cite it.

Theres some information out there that Klefbom has been bothered by a "upper body injury since the 2017 playoffs" If that's the case why wasn't it dealt with in May 2017?

 

[McShogun99]

Trading Klefbom would be the icing on the cake for stupid moves that PC had made.

 

[48g90a138pts]

Montoya on the second goal was as bad an effort as any goalie in hockey this year
He did even look at the play
Gazing off past center ice
Why would deserve to be paid this week?

Yup that goal is on Montoya, no doubt. But what a gaff to put the puck off the referees skate. Why the f*** was he in the way to begin with. Just stupid. But Montoya was totally off in lala land.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Trading Klefbom would be the icing on the cake for stupid moves that PC had made.

Who wanted him traded? All I see is a bunch of reaction. From what I'm reading one individual stated they wanted him traded. I haven't spotted one post to that effect.

Really whats occurring here is Oilers fans biting each others head off over team results here and that's unfortunate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup that goal is on Montoya, no doubt. But what a gaff to put the puck off the referees skate. Why the **** was he in the way to begin with. Just stupid. But Montoya was totally off in lala land.

Does anybody think the NHL should institute a clause that if a goal is created by inadvertently going off an official it should be immediately called off? Really I think when a play like that happens and it impacts a significant scoring chance the play should be whistled immediately. Play on ice should be about what the players bring. Not an official being in the way and getting an assist on a goal..

 

[48g90a138pts]

Does anybody think the NHL should institute a clause that if a goal is created by inadvertently going off an official it should be immediately called off? Really I think when a play like that happens and it impacts a significant scoring chance the play should be whistled immediately. Play on ice should be about what the players bring. Not an official being in the way and getting an assist on a goal..

No they shouldn't make any rule changes, shit happens. The goalie should be paying attention at all times.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Not every goal is on the goalie. It's on everyone for not getting up to start the game. The dmen, forwards, goalie and coaching staff. It's not a individual problem, its a organizational problem.

Way too easy to point the finger at one or a few guys. If it was just a small collection of ppl it wouldn't be this bad, but it's not. Its on everyone to pick up their game and be more prepared.

Yep fully agreed. It's easy to blame the guy in the pipes on every goal. That said, when things go south so early in a game its almost the same thing as being in a scoring slump. When a player is missing open nets, having his stick break on one-timer tap ins, etc it wears on you mentally. Instead of thinking "what do I have to do to score a goal", it's "What do I have to do to not get scored on right away". As players starting the game or period, the same thoughts must be going through their heads too.

Not one player is individually costing the team games, unless its Russell scoring on his own team in a tie game late lol.
As you said, I see it the same way...the whole team is costing them games.

 

[48g90a138pts]

Klefboms extenuated injury was due to an infection from the shoulder injury. In otherwords complication of an injury which afairc was first described as a contusion. If people have other clear medical information on what exactly he is suffering from and if it is long term injury than please cite it.

Theres some information out there that Klefbom has been bothered by a "upper body injury since the 2017 playoffs" If that's the case why wasn't it dealt with in May 2017?

WTF has he got Myositis Ossificans Or something? Oh man poor Klefbom.

 

[StevenF1919]

How much was he ever away from Larsson and in what way were the numbers excellent? Lets hear more.

lets substantiate. What does, or did Klefbom do well. What are his strongsuits as a D. Why not quantify it a bit.

All I've heard today is he's near elite and frankly its the first time I've heard that about Klefbom.

His analytics have been comparable to a typical #1 defenseman for the last 3 years. The bottom chart has his numbers from the seasons before Larsson arrived. He's put up great numbers every year up until this one, giving up on him now would be incredibly stupid.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep fully agreed. It's easy to blame the guy in the pipes on every goal. That said, when things go south so early in a game its almost the same thing as being in a scoring slump. When a player is missing open nets, having his stick break on one-timer tap ins, etc it wears on you mentally. Instead of thinking "what do I have to do to score a goal", it's "What do I have to do to not get scored on right away". As players starting the game or period, the same thoughts must be going through their heads too.

Not one player is individually costing the team games, unless its Russell scoring on his own team in a tie game late lol.
As you said, I see it the same way...the whole team is costing them games.

On at least 2 goals last night there is no D in sight around the net. I thought I watching Eakins brand Swarm. it was incredible. Where are the D. I had to replay each goal several times spotting where and why the D were out floating. On two of these instances Russell (bad decision in his own regard.) was chasing a puck carrier trying to get the puck. On two goal occasions Klef compounds this by also chasing something. However if one D is moving away from the goal area its imprudent in my view for the other D to make the same move and so that front of the net is entirely vacated of D.

To me that's like one D pinching and the other D spotting that and going "while I'll pinch too"

it is interesting here though that if Talbots in net the problem is Talbot if Montoya is in net the problem is Montoya. Yet the Oilers consistently give up way too many 5 bell scoring chances. The Oil were incredibly pourous on this road trip. Giving quality chances away constantly. The goals the Sharks were able to get were laughable. guys taking it right to the net and having all day there because theres no D defending.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

If what's posted above about Klefbom is true about him getting ANOTHER secondary infection following surgery, something is seriously not right with his antibodies.

That's two consecutive post surgery infections which could have had drastic implications on his life.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

On at least 2 goals last night there is no D in sight around the net. I thought I watching Eakins brand Swarm. it was incredible. Where are the D. I had to replay each goal several times spotting where and why the D were out floating. On two of these instances Russell (bad decision in his own regard.) was chasing a puck carrier trying to get the puck. On two goal occasions Klef compounds this by also chasing something. However if one D is moving away from the goal area its imprudent in my view for the other D to make the same move and so that front of the net is entirely vacated of D.

To me that's like one D pinching and the other D spotting that and going "while I'll pinch too"

it is interesting here though that if Talbots in net the problem is Talbot if Montoya is in net the problem is Montoya. Yet the Oilers consistently give up way too many 5 bell scoring chances. The Oil were incredibly pourous on this road trip. Giving quality chances away constantly. The goals the Sharks were able to get were laughable. guys taking it right to the net and having all day there because theres no D defending.

Montoya got hung out to dry on the game winner. Whoever scored for the Sharks walked right down broadway without a sideways glance from anyone wearing white. I just laughed when that happened.

 

[Burnoutboi]

Yes season is done. Expect more of this to close out the season.

I wasn’t optimistic to start the season. Too many career years to expect everyone to reach those totals again. There’s been some pleasant surprises, like Nurse, but the writing was on the wall after the second game of the season.

 

[nabob]

Klefboms extenuated injury was due to an infection from the shoulder injury. In otherwords complication of an injury which afairc was first described as a contusion. If people have other clear medical information on what exactly he is suffering from and if it is long term injury than please cite it.

Theres some information out there that Klefbom has been bothered by a "upper body injury since the 2017 playoffs" If that's the case why wasn't it dealt with in May 2017?

Ahh so you were just being willfully ignorant, because now you sound like an expert, are you an expert?

 

[Drivesaitl]

His analytics have been comparable to a typical #1 defenseman for the last 3 years. The bottom chart has his numbers from the seasons before Larsson arrived. He's put up great numbers every year up until this one, giving up on him now would be incredibly stupid.

I do thank you for posting this. Its an actual reply to what I asked. Good on you, your the only one to have cited anything.

however, and this is just me, I'm not a fan of analytical stats and which I feel can often be misleading. Pouliot was said to be a great puck possession player and analytics darling and so on.

In anycase is there one thing specifically you would want to cite in the above or that you feel is significant? I'm not familiar at all with these graphs. I don't know what any of the graph really means, at all. I watch hockey. I don't perform by proxy statistical calculations on it.

That said Klef is on a team that is telling people to shoot the puck in almost any situation. That is telling him to shoot the puck in almost any situation. The Oilers even challenged Klef to get off 250 shots this year as an end goal. I don't even see the point in that. The object is to create goals, not to pad shots on the net. Klef has 150 sog this season and 3 goals. Nor are his shots creating scrambles or rebounds or opportunities. Basically negligible offense he's generating. Now as far as EVGA/60mins the numbers are regularly high. Worst on the team for D this season and last.

Most of the above graph and advanced stats seems based on shots which can be very misleading. Graphs like this can be similarly misleading. Certainly the info, as presented is not easily discernible or intuitive.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ahh so you were just being willfully ignorant, because now you sound like an expert, are you an expert?

Are any of us? All I'm hearing is repeated claims that this is not Klefbom, that this is all injury related. Are those diagnoses expert claims? That's what I'm responding to and as we know injury related information within the NHL, and within the Oilers is extremely tightlipped. All I'm asking for is some clear substantiation if anybody has it.

 

[RegDunlop]

On at least 2 goals last night there is no D in sight around the net. I thought I watching Eakins brand Swarm. it was incredible. Where are the D. I had to replay each goal several times spotting where and why the D were out floating. On two of these instances Russell (bad decision in his own regard.) was chasing a puck carrier trying to get the puck. On two goal occasions Klef compounds this by also chasing something. However if one D is moving away from the goal area its imprudent in my view for the other D to make the same move and so that front of the net is entirely vacated of D.

To me that's like one D pinching and the other D spotting that and going "while I'll pinch too"

it is interesting here though that if Talbots in net the problem is Talbot if Montoya is in net the problem is Montoya. Yet the Oilers consistently give up way too many 5 bell scoring chances. The Oil were incredibly pourous on this road trip. Giving quality chances away constantly. The goals the Sharks were able to get were laughable. guys taking it right to the net and having all day there because theres no D defending.

And there are so many other examples of this in every game where teams have grade a chances but fail to score. Our defence needs to tighten up, new systems, better coached, new personnel, or all of the above.

 

[RegDunlop]

No they shouldn't make any rule changes, **** happens. The goalie should be paying attention at all times.

IIRC they used to have a rule that if the puck goes of an official giving an unfair advantage to one team in the attacking zone, it was to be blown dead. I may be wrong though. Now this is not the case as puck is always in play.

This is the only time in that instance it will be called back -
78.5 Disallowed Goals – Apparent goals shall be disallowed by the Referee and the appropriate announcement made by the Public Address Announcer for the following reasons:
(iii) When the puck has deflected directly into the net off an official.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

I've mentioned this before. The thing that irritates me the most is why does the f***** defense retreat in their defensive zone to give the opposing forward a chance to shoot from prime areas. I've seen that numerous times this season. I guess the D we have are not capable of standing their ground against an opposing forward.

 

[hjghkabsdkc]

Klefbom hasn't been near his level from last season but if you think he's a product of Larsson or that the Oilers could trade him, good luck with that.

There's a serious lack of puck moving ability on defence. People love to tout Larsson's defensive ability but in reality there's no way he's so elite to make up for him being an absolute zero on offence.

Russell is Russell. He's gonna sell out at the blue line and block shots and hurl passes to the opposition.

Nurse has been solid, but betting on young defenceman to be consistent from year to year is risky. I like Nurse but his offensive instincts are poor.

Sekera is one of my favourites but man I worry what he looks like coming back from multiple injuries this season.

Imagine a defence with just Nurse/Larsson/Russell/the Corpse of Sekera. Good god. No wonder the Oilers are bad.

 

[North]

Klefbom hasn't been near his level from last season but if you think he's a product of Larsson or that the Oilers could trade him, good luck with that.

There's a serious lack of puck moving ability on defence. People love to tout Larsson's defensive ability but in reality there's no way he's so elite to make up for him being an absolute zero on offence.

Russell is Russell. He's gonna sell out at the blue line and block shots and hurl passes to the opposition.

Nurse has been solid, but betting on young defenceman to be consistent from year to year is risky. I like Nurse but his offensive instincts are poor.

Sekera is one of my favourites but man I worry what he looks like coming back from multiple injuries this season.

Imagine a defence with just Nurse/Larsson/Russell/the Corpse of Sekera. Good god. No wonder the Oilers are bad.

The only way Klefbom should be traded is in a package for a clear upgrade. Otherwise we have to keep him and hope he rebounds next season.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Klefbom and Lucic have been the two worst vet players on this club by a mile. In Klefs case all season.

What injury?

Klef wasn't ever in my core. I've always been uncomfortable with his play. I get nervous when he's on the ice. Any season.

This is my core;

McD, Drai, Talbot, Nurse, Larsson, Maroon.

Not a long list but this isn't a very good team Chia has left us with.

I would even put Davidson, Khaira, Slepy, Pacman ahead of Klef not that any of them are in my core. The 6 above, or at least 5 of them are the core. Klefbom isn't close to being in that league and will never be as good as Nurse or Larsson.

I don't think anybody is disputing the body of work this season. Everything is going wrong in 2017-28. People defending Klefbom are looking to next season. My judgement on the 2 players you mentioned is Klefbom is worth giving a chance to, and Lucic is in true regression. What we saw from Klef at 23 is more likely to resurface. What we are seeing from Lucic at 29 is more likely to be the norm going forward. One is playing poor with Benning who has been our worst d-man all year. The other is playing poor all while getting consistent opportunities with McD or Drai.

The shoulder thing that's been bothering him all season.
Oscar Klefbom latest Oilers defenceman to hit injured reserve
"He's been playing sore and hurt for a while" - McLellan
Oscar himself mentioned in a pre-game after one of the breaks that it's been a struggle all year getting healthy.

I don't know how you can call last season anything but a success for Klefbom. 38 points, 6 PIM, +7, 201 shots, 16 PP points. Not to mention he was playing far more aggressive and breaking the cycle more often. Maybe wasn't in your core, but I had the following:

McDavid, Draisaitl, Nuge, Talbot, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse

I think Maroon in the core is a mistake. I know you're a fan, won't belittle it, just my opinion that he is also in regression. Slower, disengaged, lazier, offside all the time. Support player at best, open to re-signing him on a cheap contract.

Agree on Chia. He's shredded the team's depth.

I really believe Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse are 3 strong pieces of a top 4 going forward.
Been crapping on the former 2 all season for their lacklustre play for sure, but with the season lost, I'm open to moving a few names well before a young defenseman who's had an off year.