Lines at Practice November 1st

[Price is Wright]

...Therrien should try Tinordi with Subban for more than just a few minutes...

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Gilbert
Beaulieu - Emelin

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Gilbert
Beaulieu - Emelin

EXACTLY!!

 

[Runner77]

Just heard a caller to TSN690 saying Hab fans think the team is better than they actually are.

One fan, one opinion amongst many. Some callers are stuck on wins and losses and how far the Habs made it into the playoffs last year. What are you gonna do.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just heard a caller to TSN690 saying Hab fans think the team is better than they actually are. Do you guys think that because I certainly don't. Despite the record this team hasn't played very well aside for short spurts during games. The Habs have played maybe 3 or 4 good games this year.

Our record is better than our play has indicated... how's that? 'Cause that I would agree with.

I'd also say that our roster should be playing better than it has and that's going back to last year.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Just heard a caller to TSN690 saying Hab fans think the team is better than they actually are. Do you guys think that because I certainly don't. Despite the record this team hasn't played very well aside for short spurts during games. The Habs have played maybe 3 or 4 good games this year.

I disagree with him. We easily have one of the top rosters in the East. We have a mobile, possession driving D core (but we suck in transition). We have a bigger and faster group of forwards than we've had in years (but we dump and chase to no avail). We have a top 3 goaltender (to whom MT should give half his salary).

But we play a system that, as Andy put it, consists of "playing the right way" and "competing". In other words, we don't have a system. It's not a coincidence that when the game is tied we get vastly outplayed but when we're down by 2 in the 3rd we dominate... When the team's desperate they stop playing Therrien's game and the top end skill of our team gets put on display.

 

[JohnLennon]

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Gilbert
Beaulieu - Emelin

I just don't see that happening. Therrien doesn't like putting rookies on the top pairing, or giving rookies big responsibility. It does make sense. You want to ease your players into the NHL game, and giving them 25 minutes against top opposition wouldn't be the best way to go.

Maybe next year, these lines could be attempted, but I doubt he tries it for any extended time this year.

 

[Runner77]

But we play a system that, as Andy put it, consists of "playing the right way" and "competing".

Consistent with that, Jess Ruznak on this morning's practise: the team focused its practise almost entirely on "battle" drills.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I disagree with him. We easily have one of the top rosters in the East. We have a mobile, possession driving D core (but we suck in transition). We have a bigger and faster group of forwards than we've had in years (but we dump and chase to no avail). We have a top 3 goaltender (to whom MT should give half his salary).

But we play a system that, as Andy put it, consists of "playing the right way" and "competing". In other words, we don't have a system. It's not a coincidence that when the game is tied we get vastly outplayed but when we're down by 2 in the 3rd we dominate... When the team's desperate they stop playing Therrien's game and the top end skill of our team gets put on display.

I agree. Good roster, bad system, bad roster management.

 

[Runner77]

I agree. Good roster, bad system, bad roster management.

Great shirts, suits and haircuts. Good expectations management.

 

[nyhabsfan]

What were the lines at practice today for the forward

 

[zzoo]

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Gilbert
Beaulieu - Emelin

I like this very much. Let's play both Tino and Beaulieu at the same time, at their strong side. Emelin is fine on the right.

 

[Rapala]

Consistent with that, Jess Ruznak on this morning's practise: the team focused its practise almost entirely on "battle" drills.

So No give and go no giving and receiving no ten to twenty foot passing...
how about 2-1 both sides? We seem to excel in that area... NOT.
Give the boys a bone to compete for FFS...

 

[Justin11]

So No give and go no giving and receiving no ten to twenty foot passing...
how about 2-1 both sides? We seem to excel in that area... NOT.
Give the boys a bone to compete for FFS...

This is a grinding team, chip and chase is the master plan. According to MT, there is no talent on this team

 

[Hannibal]

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Gilbert
Beaulieu - Emelin

Yes, please.

 

[MTLSandman*]

I'd like to play devils advocate here. A lot of you are complaining of a "lack" of a system and the focus is solely on competing and winning battles and some general breakouts and zone entries. This is true. But by the same token, wouldn't you say a system with less Xs and Os and more general guidelines helps promote creativity? Obviously you guys will pull out the dump and chase argument and that it's not creative, but say, when zone entry is established the players are left on their own to create chances however they want.

Now you may think this is still a bad way to coach a team, but maybe keep that in mind if ever we get a "play book" coach and we seem to be figured out after a season or so. I just remember the days of Martin and how everyone complained how boring the Habs were to watch. Now obviously when they lose 6-2 they aren't fun to watch but you'd be lying if you said this isn't one of the more fun teams to watch in the past few years when they're all competing and battling and just having more freedom in general.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Consistent with that, Jess Ruznak on this morning's practise: the team focused its practise almost entirely on "battle" drills.

... of course they did

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'd like to play devils advocate here. A lot of you are complaining of a "lack" of a system and the focus is solely on competing and winning battles and some general breakouts and zone entries. This is true. But by the same token, wouldn't you say a system with less Xs and Os and more general guidelines helps promote creativity? Obviously you guys will pull out the dump and chase argument and that it's not creative, but say, when zone entry is established the players are left on their own to create chances however they want.

Now you may think this is still a bad way to coach a team, but maybe keep that in mind if ever we get a "play book" coach and we seem to be figured out after a season or so. I just remember the days of Martin and how everyone complained how boring the Habs were to watch. Now obviously when they lose 6-2 they aren't fun to watch but you'd be lying if you said this isn't one of the more fun teams to watch in the past few years when they're all competing and battling and just having more freedom in general.

That's a fair point. Whatever system could be adopted is up for debate.

But he's being criticized for employing a bad system and sticking with it. He's gotten away with it because we've been winning games we shouldn't and because we've got a great goalie.

We can debate all day what system should be in place but there shouldn't be any debate that the system we have now sucks. Esp when we keep getting destroyed in the first period of every game and then have to adjust. To me, that's not evidence of a good system and the roster management isn't helping either.

But we're 8-3 so...

 

[sheed36]

I see no good reason for having Bournival up with the Habs and sitting him for every game. If MT isn't planning on using the guy just send him to Hamilton so he can play. He'll probably not improve playing for that not so good Hamilton coaching staff but at least he'd be in some type of game shape in case of injuries to any Habs players.

 

[Runner77]

I see no good reason for having Bournival up with the Habs and sitting him for every game. If MT isn't planning on using the guy just send him to Hamilton so he can play. He'll probably not improve playing for that no so good Hamilton coaching staff but at least he'd be in some type of game shape in case of injuries to any Habs players.

Something's gotta give. Unless MB is planning a trade, but we don't tend to see that many this time of year.

 

[MTLSandman*]

That's a fair point. Whatever system could be adopted is up for debate.

But he's being criticized for employing a bad system and sticking with it. He's gotten away with it because we've been winning games we shouldn't and because we've got a great goalie.

We can debate all day what system should be in place but there shouldn't be any debate that the system we have now sucks. Esp when we keep getting destroyed in the first period of every game and then have to adjust. To me, that's not evidence of a good system and the roster management isn't helping either.

But we're 8-3 so...

Let's say in a hypothetical and realistic scenario, the Habs once again finish on top of the east and make a deep run into the playoffs. At what point do we drop the "but were 8-3" sarcasm posts, when in fact we would have now played 3 straight seasons with great results... It's great to say the team is playing bad, and right now, they are, but at the end of the day ( or should I say: at the end of three seasons) when can we look at things objectively and say maybe it's working? As bad as the team may LOOK on the ice, if after so many games were still producing shouldn't we maybe reconsider our evaluation? I mean, as much as you would like, win-loss records are objective whereas "eye tests" are subjective.

 

[Tyson]

I am starting to wonder if Nathan is NHL material. I know he is young but at this stage he is not NHL ready.

 

[Hoople]

I'd like to play devils advocate here. A lot of you are complaining of a "lack" of a system and the focus is solely on competing and winning battles and some general breakouts and zone entries. This is true. But by the same token, wouldn't you say a system with less Xs and Os and more general guidelines helps promote creativity? Obviously you guys will pull out the dump and chase argument and that it's not creative, but say, when zone entry is established the players are left on their own to create chances however they want.

Now you may think this is still a bad way to coach a team, but maybe keep that in mind if ever we get a "play book" coach and we seem to be figured out after a season or so. I just remember the days of Martin and how everyone complained how boring the Habs were to watch. Now obviously when they lose 6-2 they aren't fun to watch but you'd be lying if you said this isn't one of the more fun teams to watch in the past few years when they're all competing and battling and just having more freedom in general.

That's the conundrum.

Creative offense on hockey comes from playing a structured game. Boston is good at this as no matter who has the puck or where, there is always a player cutting toward the slot. This allows players to react without having to think before acting. A split second is the difference between being open or not.

The Habs do not have that type of structure We do not attack the net consistently and the slot area remains vacant on most shifts. We play a perimeter game with little structure which stifles creativity. This is obvious on the PP because we cannot create 2 on 1 situations low even with a man advantage. The default react without thinking move on the PP is the pass back to the covered point.

The same holds true on the breakouts. No structure, no plan. When pressured, Habs players are forced to think before they react. The end result is what we see every night. Turnovers and icings.

No, making it up as you go along works great for weekend pond hockey. It leads to frustration in the NHL.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Let's say in a hypothetical and realistic scenario, the Habs once again finish on top of the east and make a deep run into the playoffs. At what point do we drop the "but were 8-3" sarcasm posts, when in fact we would have now played 3 straight seasons with great results...

As I've said before, I think we've got a really good roster. I think we're a playoff team and Montreal is my pick to come out of the East. That's with or without Therrien as our coach. We've got top tier talent at every position except maybe center and there we've got Galchenyuk on the way up. This is a pretty good team and it's got the good fortune to be in the sad sack East. We've also got a goalie who's arguably the best in the league and can cover up a ton of mistakes and win games (and playoff series) that we shouldn't be in. He's our best player (along with Subban) and he's the main reason the Habs are my pick in the East to go to the finals this year.

It's great to say the team is playing bad, and right now, they are, but at the end of the day ( or should I say: at the end of three seasons) when can we look at things objectively and say maybe it's working? As bad as the team may LOOK on the ice, if after so many games were still producing shouldn't we maybe reconsider our evaluation? I mean, as much as you would like, win-loss records are objective whereas "eye tests" are subjective.

Okay... our record is good and our record last year was good.

You want to look at objective stats though? Let's look at last year's numbers:

Bottom third in shots
Bottom third in shots against
Bottom third in goals for
Bottom third in PP
Our advanced stats also sucked.

The only thing we had going for us was our goaltending and penalty killing (due in large part to goaltending) so I don't see how anyone can argue we really played all that well last year either. Our superstar goalie played well, Pleks played great on the PK. Other than that? It was pretty slim pickings for most of the year. Pretty sure if you check our stats for this year (I haven't) that you'll see a similar trend.

So to answer your question, no I don't think we've played well for a while now. And no I don't think the coach deserves any credit for our record. I think we'd be better off with a coaching change esp since a new coach might actually let some of our younger better players into the lineup.

I am starting to wonder if Nathan is NHL material. I know he is young but at this stage he is not NHL ready.

I disagree with you.

 

[Rapala]

Let's say in a hypothetical and realistic scenario, the Habs once again finish on top of the east and make a deep run into the playoffs. At what point do we drop the "but were 8-3" sarcasm posts, when in fact we would have now played 3 straight seasons with great results... It's great to say the team is playing bad, and right now, they are, but at the end of the day ( or should I say: at the end of three seasons) when can we look at things objectively and say maybe it's working? As bad as the team may LOOK on the ice, if after so many games were still producing shouldn't we maybe reconsider our evaluation? I mean, as much as you would like, win-loss records are objective whereas "eye tests" are subjective.

The players performances themselves will let us know.
People were critical last season and felt we were pulling points instead of developing talent.
You are allowed to do both you know.
The record this year is in jeopardy if the team decides to block out the coach's message.
This is a very distinct possibility if he doesn't adapt to our personnel changes.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The players performances themselves will let us know.
People were critical last season and felt we were pulling points instead of developing talent.
You are allowed to do both you know.
The record this year is in jeopardy if the team decides to block out the coach's message.
This is a very distinct possibility if he doesn't adapt to our personnel changes.

The coach's system is what got them into trouble in the first place. Maybe they should tune him out and then we'd see better results.