Proposal: Lindholm to Canucks for Hunter Brustewicz +

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oceanchild

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Monahan and Matheson *

It gives you a lot of depth on LD, and it gives you 2nd pair offensive production. We could take Myers back without much problems, probably even retain on Monahan, though that would be very little.

I mean, sure you don't get Lindholm, but Monahan has been healthy and retaining a winger such as Kuzy gives the Canucks A LOT of depth to score. You'd basically get a first line and either one really good 2nd line with 2 3B lines or 3 2B lines, thats a good way to win in the NHL.
I don’t like Monahan as a player to be honest and think he gets hurt as soon d we get him in that case. Myers is an actual RHD and we only have two of them and won’t be leaving unless we get anouther RHD back. We already have Hughes, Cole, Soucey and Z on the left side.
 

Johnsie19

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It depends on the model. I don't like the JFresh xG model. I like to look at zone starts, quality of competition, who they are playing with primarily and how many high danger chances are being given up. It gives a much more accurate picture.
Some of that is baked into xG no?

What do zone starts mean to you? Is it good to start a lot in the defensive zone?
 

Double Dion

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Some of that is baked into xG no?

What do zone starts mean to you? Is it good to start a lot in the defensive zone?
Are these genuine questions? Do you really not understand what zone starts indicate or how they effect shot metrics that stats like xG track? I can't fathom someone not understanding that while they try to use them.
 

Johnsie19

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Are these genuine questions? Do you really not understand what zone starts indicate or how they effect shot metrics that stats like xG track? I can't fathom someone not understanding that while they try to use them.
Your brain exploded! I'm more asking if how do you weight it. Against xG. Lets say a 5% difference in zone starts.

Also xG monitors the quality of the chance so why are you then looking at high danger chances as well? It's in xG
 

RebuildinVan

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Im opposed to trading any D prospects for a player who is looking for his retirement contract. Of Bennings many failures putting together an NHL caliber D corps is near the top. We now have three prospects Im very high on
 
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Double Dion

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Your brain exploded! I'm more asking if how do you weight it. Against xG. Lets say a 5% difference in zone starts.

Also xG monitors the quality of the chance so why are you then looking at high danger chances as well? It's in xG
No it measures where shots were taken from, not the quality of shots. I weigh zone starts VERY heavily. I also weigh quality of competition and who they are playing with heavily. Huberdeau (a poor defensive player) had excellent defensive metrics playing with Backlund and Coleman for that 8 game stretch. It's not because Huberdeau became good defensively. It's because Backlund and Coleman are elite defensive players.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Gonna go out on a limb and bet that Lindholm isn't taking 7 x $7.5M from Vancouver after turning down $20M more from Calgary.

Even on a down season, there's a GM in the league that'll pay more than that for a low-end 1C/high end 2C.
 

bossram

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I'm really not high on Lindholm. He's not driving a top-six line with Mikheyev as his wingman. His big seasons were products of Gaudreau/Tkachuk.

And if they didn't want to invest that kind of money in Horvat, then why Lindholm? Let him get his bag elsewhere.

I'd be willing to pay a bigger premium for a real player.

Lindholm could be a J.T. Miller in the right situation.
That situation is certainly not Vancouver. Unless the Canucks are also importing two additional elite wingers.
 

Double Dion

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Gonna go out on a limb and bet that Lindholm isn't taking 7 x $7.5M from Vancouver after turning down $20M more from Calgary.

Even on a down season, there's a GM in the league that'll pay more than that for a low-end 1C/high end 2C.
He's going to get 8-9 M somewhere. 7.5M in a high tax market like Vancouver isn't even a competitive offer.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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He's going to get 8-9 M somewhere. 7.5M in a high tax market like Vancouver isn't even a competitive offer.

Yep. And taxes aren't even the problem. Cost of living is ungodly.

And yes, Vancouver locals, I realize it's a nice place to live. There are other nice NHL cities where you don't have to pay $2M for a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2,000 sq ft home.
 

Johnsie19

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No it measures where shots were taken from, not the quality of shots. I weigh zone starts VERY heavily. I also weigh quality of competition and who they are playing with heavily. Huberdeau (a poor defensive player) had excellent defensive metrics playing with Backlund and Coleman for that 8 game stretch. It's not because Huberdeau became good defensively. It's because Backlund and Coleman are elite defensive players.
Where the shot is taken from is algorithm of how dangerous the shot is from that area. Or else why would you both tracking where the shot was from if it's not being entered into the data?
 

Double Dion

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Where the shot is taken from is algorithm of how dangerous the shot is from that area. Or else why would you both tracking where the shot was from if it's not being entered into the data?
A clear shot on net is tracked the same as a blocked shot in xG. A backhand from the top of the circle is tracked the same way as a one timer from between the hashmarks. It's a very flawed system.
 

Peter Griffin

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Yep. And taxes aren't even the problem. Cost of living is ungodly.

And yes, Vancouver locals, I realize it's a nice place to live. There are other nice NHL cities where you don't have to pay $2M for a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2,000 sq ft home.
I mean, unless the market in Vancouver tanks(it won’t), you’re not going to lose anything on your $2M investment and most likely only going to make money. Professional athletes signing $50M+ contracts aren’t going to be turned off by the cost of living in a beautiful city lol.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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I mean, unless the market in Vancouver tanks(it won’t), you’re not going to lose anything on your $2M investment and most likely only going to make money. Professional athletes signing $50M+ contracts aren’t going to be turned off by the cost of living in a beautiful city lol.

$8.5M x 7 to live in Nashville with no state income tax and Nashville cost of living >>> $7.5M x 7 to live in Vancouver with Canadian taxes and Vancouver cost of living.

And it's really not close.

You can just as easily apply this to Florida, Dallas, Vegas, and Carolina. (Minus state income tax)
 

Peter Griffin

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$8.5M x 7 to live in Nashville with no state income tax and Nashville cost of living >>> $7.5M x 7 to live in Vancouver with Canadian taxes and Vancouver cost of living.

And it's really not close.

You can just as easily apply this to Florida, Dallas, Vegas, and Carolina. (Minus state income tax)
Yes, tax rates are a legitimate factor. Cost of living for millionaires isn’t. These people don’t have the same concerns as regular people and it’s a joke to suggest a professional athlete is going to factor in the cost of gas or groceries into their decisions. Maybe if they’re renting a place for 6 months instead of buying but even then you’re talking a difference of what, maybe $25-50k a season? Chump change.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Yes, tax rates are a legitimate factor. Cost of living for millionaires isn’t. These people don’t have the same concerns as regular people and it’s a joke to suggest a professional athlete is going to factor in the cost of gas or groceries into their decisions. Maybe if they’re renting a place for 6 months instead of buying but even then you’re talking a difference of what, maybe $25-50k a season? Chump change.

If I'm a millionaire and can get the same house in Nashville at half or a third of the cost that it'd be in Vancouver, cost of living absolutely matters.

Any difference in quality of life amongst the elite class of those two cities is minimal.
 

Peter Griffin

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If I'm a millionaire and can get the same house in Nashville at half or a third of the cost that it'd be in Vancouver, cost of living absolutely matters.
You do realize that real estate is considered an investment in most areas of the world? It’s not as if buying a property in Vancouver compared to Nashville is throwing that money away. Could they invest that difference and make a better ROI? Possibly. But it’s foolish to think that’s going to sway any high profile athletes decision on where to sign.

Overall contract value and tax rate is so much higher on any multi millionaires list than cost of living and it’s not even close.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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You do realize that real estate is considered an investment in most areas of the world? It’s not as if buying a property in Vancouver compared to Nashville is throwing that money away. Could they invest that difference and make a better ROI? Possibly.

But overall contract value and tax rate is so much higher on any multi millionaires list than cost of living.

You do realize that pointing out it's an investment "In most areas of the world" just acknowledges that you're likely to see growth in both areas, right?

So yes, growth in both Nashville and Vancouver cancels each other out and doesn't account for:

1. Nashville being way more bang for your buck.
2. Nashville having no state income tax.
3. Nashville having way more favorable weather.
 

Peter Griffin

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You do realize that pointing out it's an investment "In most areas of the world" just acknowledges that you're likely to see growth in both areas, right?
What’s your point? You’re not losing anything on your biggest “cost of living” in Vancouver, so it’s a minimal factor at best, not a bigger issue than taxes like you suggested in your original post I commented on:

FriendlyGhost92 said:
And taxes aren't even the problem. Cost of living is ungodly.

So yes, growth in both Nashville and Vancouver cancels each other out and doesn't account for:

1. Nashville being way more bang for your buck.
2. Nashville having no state income tax.
3. Nashville having way more favorable weather.
Not sure why you’re bringing any of this up. My only gripe was your suggestion that very highly paid professional athletes were concerned about cost of living. I don’t think for a second that a player like Lindholm would take less to sign in a place like Vancouver compared to Nashville and never suggested it.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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What’s your point? You’re not losing anything on your biggest “cost of living” in Vancouver, so it’s a minimal factor at best, not a bigger issue than taxes like you suggested in your original post I commented on:




Not sure why you’re bringing any of this up. My only gripe was your suggestion that very highly paid professional athletes were concerned about cost of living.

What part of "You can buy more house for way less in an equally nice city" isn't clear?

Yes. That cost of living factor absolutely matters, even to pro athletes.
 

Peter Griffin

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What part of "You can buy more house for way less in an equally nice city" isn't clear?

Yes. That cost of living factor absolutely matters, even to pro athletes.
When you have $50M in the bank already and just signed another contract for $64M, paying $5M instead of $2.5M on a property you’re not expecting to lose a dime on isn’t going to be a deciding factor on where you choose to live.
 
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Adam da bomb

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You do realize that pointing out it's an investment "In most areas of the world" just acknowledges that you're likely to see growth in both areas, right?

So yes, growth in both Nashville and Vancouver cancels each other out and doesn't account for:

1. Nashville being way more bang for your buck.
2. Nashville having no state income tax.
3. Nashville having way more favorable weather.
Yep only advantage Vancouver has is winning is more fun than losing. Having a chance at a cup.
 

UrbanImpact

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If Canucks do trade for Lindholm and extend him then he better not make a cent more than JT Miller. Lindholm couldnt keep up with Miller's shadow.

8mil AAV or below.

Dont care how much defence Lindholm brings, JT brings defence too along with points.

Last 205 games:

Miller- 241 pts
Lindholm- 166 pts
 

FriendlyGhost92

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When you have $50M in the bank already and just signed another contract for $64M, paying $5M instead of $2.5M on a property you’re not expecting to lose a dime on isn’t going to be a deciding factor on where you choose to live.

Just to be clear, the difference in $64M in Nashville vs. Vancouver, using CapFriendly's tax calculator, is about $5.5M.

So, according to you, taxes amounting to a $5.5M difference is a big deal to athletes, but when it comes to a $2.5M difference is a complete non-factor.

Just making sure I've got this right... I'm thinking money is money and it matters no matter what.
 

UrbanImpact

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Just to be clear, the difference in $64M in Nashville vs. Vancouver, using CapFriendly's tax calculator, is about $5.5M.

So, according to you, taxes amounting to a $5.5M difference is a big deal to athletes, but when it comes to a $2.5M difference is a complete non-factor.

Just making sure I've got this right... I'm thinking money is money and it matters no matter what.

Disagree.

Even to Joe Average like me , I prioritize quality of life more than cost of living.

Yes I can live in Alberta and buy a house for 400K but id rather choose a quality of life that i enjoy more for myself.
Albertans might say their quality of life is better, to each their own.

My point is, if an Average Joe like me choose quality of life over cost of living, then i imagine any generational millionaire would also make the same choice with less stress about money.

Each NHLer will have their own vision and threshhold for their definition of quality of life and i think thats their number 1 priority when signing a contract like this. I doubt they even consider cost of living or taxes or market value in their top 3 list of priorities.

1. Quality of life
2. Chance to win
3. Environment for kids and family
 
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