Naslund just didn't perform when it mattered and couldn't elevate his skill game in the playoffs. Linden was more 'meat and potatoes' but prime Linden is the type you win with in the playoffs. Naslund faded under pressure play and was overrated due to the dearth of talent in that decade between 1996 and 2006. I also wasn't thrilled with his comments when he joined the Rangers where he dumped on the Canucks. I'm not a Naslund fan and since the Sedins worship him, maybe I'm not really a Sedin fan? It's been a conflict for me, because I felt that while the Sedins were better in the playoffs, they had the same problem as Naslund when it counted, so now I kind of lump them together.
Player Discussion Linden vs Naslund
- Thread starter vadim sharifijanov
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LuckyDay
Registered User
If we are only looking at playoffs. Then Geoff Courtnall should be the greatest Canucks of all time. Best playoff performer and most clutch. But most greatest Canucks list don't have him in the top 25. Why? because regular season matters. Same as to why Claude Lemieux is not in any top 100 nhl player list.
You're generalizing
2002 to 2004 Naslund 25 P in 27 playoffs games. 10th in scoring that time frame. 7th in ppg min 17 games. 10 points in 7 elimination games. Including goals in game 5, 6 and 7 vs Blues and 3 P in game 6. Naslund end to end rush on Cooke tying goal vs Calgary. For the record, 2002 to 2004 was the lowest scoring era in nhl history. Not Naslund fault he didn't have a Bure carrying him or elite goaltending or playoff performer like Courtnall/Ronning/Adams. Naslund still put up close to ppg in his prime in the playoffs.
Linden is the type you win the playoffs? How come Linden never won a playoff round without Bure?
Canucks made out of the 1st round in 82 92 93 94 95 03 07 09 10 11 20.
Sedins Naslund Bure Pettersson are the top 5 most talented players offensively. Everytime they made out of the 1st round they had these type of player Sedins, Bure, Naslund or Pettersson as the go to guy except 82. Is that just a coincidence that Canucks are more successful with non Linden type of player? When you had Linden and Smyl as the go to guy. They don't make playoff or get out of the 1st round.
The thing with heart and soul players. They are Not good enough to be the go to guy like Linden. They need superstar to carry them. Like Linden need it Bure to carry him.
Linden is kind of similar to Clark. Linden like Clark couldn't take their team over the top. Once Cancuks and Leafs had a superstar, Bure and Gilmour, both Canucks and Leafs had more success in the playoffs.
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I don’t think you can say Courtnall and Linden are the same, though. Yes Courtnall was a terrific playoff performer for several years, but he wasn’t with the franchise for anywhere near as long as Naslund or Linden.
The playoff success that each player has is just part of the story that needs to be looked at when you’re evaluating between the two. IMO.
Agree agree
However most posters are not looking at the playoffs as part of the story. It's close to the full story. His 80 P in 79 playoff games in just 6% of the games Linden played in a Canucks Jersey. For some reason the other 94% doesn't mattered at all Why? Because posters know there is no other argument that Linden should be ahead of Naslund.
People talk about Linden game 7 2 goals. In the finals that is only thing they remember and his broken ribs. For me, I remember the first 6 games Linden didn't even show up, if Linden show up earlier, maybe there is no game 7 and Canucks win the cup. To be fair he had broken ribs but he got broken ribs at the end of game 4. His first 4 games Linden didn't do much as well. Where was Linden in game 3 when Bure got kicked out of the game? Canucks completely fell apart without Bure, Linden need it to step up but he didn't. Also Linden was struggling against Messier and Graves. Quinn need it to change the matchup and play McIntyre Hunter Antoski against Messier Graves
Overall in the finals I would say Linden was 5th best player behind Bure Ronning Courtnall McLean ( no order )
I think Linden is overrated. That being said I still ranked him number 5 behind 1 H Sedin 2 Bure 3 D Sedin 4 Naslund 5 Linden.
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Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
I do think it's contextually important that Linden is what you would call a "big game performer". In 9 career Game 7s, he had 6 goals and 6 assists in those elimination games. I think a big part of the reason that his propensity to step up gets brought up (and indeed, why I brought it up) is that Linden's value to the franchise goes beyond stellar offensive seasons like the ones Naslund has. It's not really different than isolating 4 seasons of Naslund's career (his 2000 to 2004 stretch, where he was dominant) and holding that up as the deciding factor in declaring him the better player / better Canuck.
Shareefruck
Registered User
Naslund's mentality/lack of clutchness that people bring up gets a bit blown out of proportion. A giant chunk of that is how his demeanor comes across, the fact that he was glued to Bertuzzi, whose effort was very up and down (optically, the Naslund - Morrison - Cooke line, while obviously not as skilled, looked much more able to handle pressure in comparison), and the winger-reliant, one-line, ACTUAL choking goaltender make-up of the team being poorly suited to long term success.
That said, I'd still take Linden. Love his versatility and how he kept being useful in different nuanced ways. Calder. Realizes he doesn't have superstar hands? Clutch play-off performer. Loses those hands? Borderline Selke-capable shutdown center. Loses his legs? Top notch shootout specialist.
That said, I'd still take Linden. Love his versatility and how he kept being useful in different nuanced ways. Calder. Realizes he doesn't have superstar hands? Clutch play-off performer. Loses those hands? Borderline Selke-capable shutdown center. Loses his legs? Top notch shootout specialist.
JianYang
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I really don't like these types of comparisons. Naslund and linden are apples to oranges. One was a winger, and the other was a winger moved to center, I believe. Playing styles were also quite different.
I guess I'll take Naslund overall, but if I'm in a game 7 situation, give me linden.
Linden was a tale of 2 players. Pre iron man linden up until the keenan era, and post iron man linden afterwards. Pre iron man linden was very good, whereas when linden came back, he was much more one dimensional and primarily a checker.
I think the perception of linden will vary widely here based on whether they remember the early linden from the 90s or the linden 2.0.
I guess I'll take Naslund overall, but if I'm in a game 7 situation, give me linden.
Linden was a tale of 2 players. Pre iron man linden up until the keenan era, and post iron man linden afterwards. Pre iron man linden was very good, whereas when linden came back, he was much more one dimensional and primarily a checker.
I think the perception of linden will vary widely here based on whether they remember the early linden from the 90s or the linden 2.0.
JianYang
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Linden is already a legend in this town, but had the Canucks won game 7 in 94, he would have been a God. I mean, he did his part.
He scored 2 goals, including a power move to the net on Brian leetch. This is after messier tried taking him out in game 6.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
Nazzy never had a goalie playing THAT good during his prime. There is no game 7 without Captain Kirk's heroics in 1994. When we DID get a legit starting goalie, Nazzy was on the downside of his career essentially.
Just watched Game 2 of the 1994 conference final...man was that an exciting game. A few things jumped out at me:
-Game was as intense as games are now but way more physical.
-Linden's style was perfectly suited for that game. His intensity and focus were high end.
-Gino had better skill than I remembered and his corner work was outstanding.
-Man I wish Pavel had stayed here for his career. Such an amazing talent.
Bottom line, that game was made for Linden and Linden for that era. Being a few years later, Naslund's career straddled the dead puck era. In today's game you'd take Naslund over Linden every time. In 1994, Linden first.
I have no doubt that Naslund's slow start to his career had a lot to do with the style of play at that time. After it opened up he was able to play at a high level well into his 30s.
Conclusion: style/era of hockey is a big factor.
-Game was as intense as games are now but way more physical.
-Linden's style was perfectly suited for that game. His intensity and focus were high end.
-Gino had better skill than I remembered and his corner work was outstanding.
-Man I wish Pavel had stayed here for his career. Such an amazing talent.
Bottom line, that game was made for Linden and Linden for that era. Being a few years later, Naslund's career straddled the dead puck era. In today's game you'd take Naslund over Linden every time. In 1994, Linden first.
I have no doubt that Naslund's slow start to his career had a lot to do with the style of play at that time. After it opened up he was able to play at a high level well into his 30s.
Conclusion: style/era of hockey is a big factor.
Fatass
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Puck on stick and attacking offensively Naslund was better than Trevor. That’s less than 10% of a player’s time on the ice. The other 90+% of their time on ice, Linden was by far the better player. We all know what Trevor contributed in that 90+%, but exactly did Naslund contribute? Was he hard to play against? Did he play a heavy game? Did he take D zone draws? Did he PK? What exactly did Naslund do in that 90+% of the time he was on the ice without the puck in attack did he contribute to winning?
Imo not very much. But was Naslund’s play for that 10% of the time so much better than Linden’s 10%, that those minutes outweigh the 90% where Trevor was better?
I think for myself I’ll take Linden, but that doesn’t mean I’m throwing out my Naslund jersey.
Imo not very much. But was Naslund’s play for that 10% of the time so much better than Linden’s 10%, that those minutes outweigh the 90% where Trevor was better?
I think for myself I’ll take Linden, but that doesn’t mean I’m throwing out my Naslund jersey.
Henrik & Daniel weren't close to being even point a game players in the playoffs. Where were they in the 2011 finals? Besides being bitch slapped by a little rat?
And there's this myth and nostalgia that Canuck fans have created around Linden. Yes he's a great person yada yada yada, but he spent 13 seasons contributing nothing on the ice. He had a monster playoffs in 94 playoffs, and after that what else? Linden averaged 24 points a season in those 13 years, and other than being a sentimental reason, why was he even on there?
Most Linden fans are like this. In the finals, they only remember the 2 goals in game 7 and ignore the first 6 games like it didn't exist. I remember the first 6 games when Linden didn't do much, people will talk about his broken ribs however he broke his ribs in end of game 4. If Linden perform better in the first 4 games, maybe Canucks are not down 3-1. Bure got kicked out of the game in game 3, Canucks completely fell apart, where was Linden, without Bure, Linden need it to carry the team but he didn't. Linden was horrible against the Messier line, Quinn need it to change the Matchup and put Antoski McIntyre Hunter out against Messier lines in game 2 or 3.
I will say Linden was 4th or 5th best player in the finals behind McLean Bure Courtnall, argument can be made Ronning was better as well.
Courtnall 4 goals in game 5 and 6 was more impressive than Linden 2 goals in game 7. Without Courtnall 4 goals in their two elimination games, there is no game 7.
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Well there hasn't been a ton of great moments in Vancouver Canucks history, or talent for that matter. That's why players like Trevor Linden, Alex Burrows etc are treated like they should be Hall of Famers. It's quite amusing really.
JianYang
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I'm not even a Canucks fan, let alone a linden fan. I just happen to live here all my life. Of course it takes a collective team to win a cup. As I stated before, I guess I would take Naslund overall, but I'd take linden in game 7 situations.
LuckyDay
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sting101
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JianYang
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You really think I'd say that if it was only based off of one game 7?
I just mentioned that specific one because it was the biggest stage. Game 7 of the cup final at Madison Sqaure Garden.
Linden only had a couple prime years. Naslund made more of an impact as a player than Linden. I'd easily take Markus over Trevor.
People that are saying Linden impact is more significant are generalizing way too much.
2001 to 2004 Naslund was the leading scorer in the nhl. If some people want to say I am cherry picking, let's look at his whole career when he was 1st line player. That is from 1998 to 2006, Naslund was third in scoring, 2003 and 2004 playoffs combined Naslund was third in scoring. 2002 to 2004 playoffs Naslund was 10th in scoring. 25 P in 27 playoff game, just under a ppg in the playoffs. Btw this was lowest scoring era in nhl history.
Pearson and 3 first team all stars
With the Canucks, 7 years in a row Naslund was the leading scorer, 2 out of 3 playoffs he was leading scorer.
Naslund during this time frame was best player on the Canucks and one of the best player in the league
Vs
Linden 80 P in 79 games which by the way puts in 16th in playoff scoring that time frame. Linden at no point in the regular season or playoffs was one of the best player. At best Linden was like top 30 player. I admit that Linden was good in the playoffs, he came up big in a lot of big games however Linden never had a series that he dominated and took over the series like Bure against Dal and the Blues, Kesler vs Nashville, H Sedin vs Shark or D Sedin and Samsuelsson vs Kings.
Linden Peak is not high enough to ranked that high. There is probably only one playoff when Linden was the best player for the Canucks and that in 1996.
Linden playoffs where another player was better
1991 Ronning Courtnall
1992 McLean Courtnall Ronning
1993 Courtnall Adams
1994 Bure McLean
1995 Bure R Courtnall
I don't remember his first playoffs. So many playoff Linden is not even best player.
Let's talk off the ice, 1996 to 2000 no playoffs. Attendance was low, there was always rumors that owner wanted to move the team. Usually the league let's a team move for 2 reasons, either low attendance or no new building. If no Naslund, Canucks might missed the playoff for a lot longer. Who know what might of happened, maybe Canucks are playing somewhere else now. Impact to the franchise doesn't get bigger than that. Naslund got fans back to gm place.
Linden might be the 2nd most overrated player in nhl history behind Toews
2001 to 2004 Naslund was the leading scorer in the nhl. If some people want to say I am cherry picking, let's look at his whole career when he was 1st line player. That is from 1998 to 2006, Naslund was third in scoring, 2003 and 2004 playoffs combined Naslund was third in scoring. 2002 to 2004 playoffs Naslund was 10th in scoring. 25 P in 27 playoff game, just under a ppg in the playoffs. Btw this was lowest scoring era in nhl history.
Pearson and 3 first team all stars
With the Canucks, 7 years in a row Naslund was the leading scorer, 2 out of 3 playoffs he was leading scorer.
Naslund during this time frame was best player on the Canucks and one of the best player in the league
Vs
Linden 80 P in 79 games which by the way puts in 16th in playoff scoring that time frame. Linden at no point in the regular season or playoffs was one of the best player. At best Linden was like top 30 player. I admit that Linden was good in the playoffs, he came up big in a lot of big games however Linden never had a series that he dominated and took over the series like Bure against Dal and the Blues, Kesler vs Nashville, H Sedin vs Shark or D Sedin and Samsuelsson vs Kings.
Linden Peak is not high enough to ranked that high. There is probably only one playoff when Linden was the best player for the Canucks and that in 1996.
Linden playoffs where another player was better
1991 Ronning Courtnall
1992 McLean Courtnall Ronning
1993 Courtnall Adams
1994 Bure McLean
1995 Bure R Courtnall
I don't remember his first playoffs. So many playoff Linden is not even best player.
Let's talk off the ice, 1996 to 2000 no playoffs. Attendance was low, there was always rumors that owner wanted to move the team. Usually the league let's a team move for 2 reasons, either low attendance or no new building. If no Naslund, Canucks might missed the playoff for a lot longer. Who know what might of happened, maybe Canucks are playing somewhere else now. Impact to the franchise doesn't get bigger than that. Naslund got fans back to gm place.
Linden might be the 2nd most overrated player in nhl history behind Toews
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Trevor Linden had much more heart than Naslund.
Naslund I believe was better offensively who also lead on the ice well, while Linden was a better presence and leader on the team.
If I was another team I take Naslund. But if I was the Vancouver Canucks I take Linden 10/10 times. Best thing that's ever happened to the Canucks.
Messier is one of the Canucks I want removed from the franchises history along with Brandon Prust and Brendan Leipsic, there are probably a couple more names I'm missing. Would rather be going on about how Messier almost signed with the Canucks rather than him coming on the Canucks. Sometimes I'm glad Gretzky never came here because he didn't make much of an impact on the Rangers.
Naslund I believe was better offensively who also lead on the ice well, while Linden was a better presence and leader on the team.
If I was another team I take Naslund. But if I was the Vancouver Canucks I take Linden 10/10 times. Best thing that's ever happened to the Canucks.
Messier is one of the Canucks I want removed from the franchises history along with Brandon Prust and Brendan Leipsic, there are probably a couple more names I'm missing. Would rather be going on about how Messier almost signed with the Canucks rather than him coming on the Canucks. Sometimes I'm glad Gretzky never came here because he didn't make much of an impact on the Rangers.
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