Lightning Core vs Avs Core

[VoluntaryDom]

point>mackinnon
kucherov>rantanen
stamkos>landeskog
hedman>=makar
i dont see why anyone should pick colorado

 

[The Macho King]

Hedman’s better than Makar right now. But, I definitely wouldn’t say it’s not even CLOSE.

It's not.

 

[Paul4587]

Landeskog is the weak link for the Avs here. All three Tampa forwards are significantly better than he is. Hedman is also significantly better than Makar currently although that gap will close over the next couple of years I would expect.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It's not.

I might take some heat for this, but there aren’t ten defenceman in the league I’d take over Cale Makar.

 

[Spilot23]

point>mackinnon
kucherov>rantanen
stamkos>landeskog
hedman>=makar
i dont see why anyone should pick colorado

I knew you loved Point while you hated Rants but didn’t expect this. This is laughable. Yes you can show me every CX6000XF stats there is I still pick Mack easily. Point is better defensively but what Mack brings offensively compared to Point it tips the scale rather easily to me. Point played 3 less games this year Mack still produced 30 more points than him despite missing Rantanen and Landeskog quite some games. Also Avs PP was atrocious when you watch their roster this should easily be a top 10 even top 5 team in the PP.

This is the way I see it :
Mack > Kuch (top scorers of their team not much to say. I expect Mack to be better than Kuch through the years I could be wrong tho)

Landeskog < Point (Both play center and are mostly used as their defensive side of their game while being able to produce. I expect the gap to widen through the years)

Rants < Stammer (Goal scorers of their team can also be good play makers 1st shot guys in their respective PP. A healthy Rantanen should close the gap very soon IMO)

Makar < Hedman (Weird that you put an equal there considering that Makar is still nowhere near as good as Hedman defensively. I expect him to be close though still a long way defensively but offensively Makar is IMO already better)

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

point>mackinnon
kucherov>rantanen
stamkos>landeskog
hedman>=makar
i dont see why anyone should pick colorado

Classic

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Replace Landeskog with Girard and it's a lot closer tbh. As is Landeskog is definitely the weakest link. Which isn't necessarily a knock on Landeskog, more just a testament to the 7 other players in this poll and that they are all phenomenal, elite talents.


We're definitely looking at the two best teams in the league the next 2-3 years here. No other cores really compare. Tampa is the better group now but there's some interesting Avs prospects that could make things a lot closer in the next couple years and the Avs have the age advantage.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

People tend to forget how a lot of offense is generated from our zone. It's easy to forget. We couldn't just slot in any defenseman to our play style. McDonagh is our workhorse. We need to shut someone down, we send out McDonagh. Sergachev this year reached a level that none of us thought he would. We aren't talking about points here, I mean defensively. The strides he took this year in his game is just way above the normal growth curve that was expected. He's 21 and we are already considering him one of our Anchors.

This year was EXACTLY what we needed to see from Sergachev after a rookie year showing great potential and sophomore year struggling a bit with tougher assignments - though he did settle in later in the year. I had concerns with his play in his own zone when he stagnated a bit last year, but after this year he's become a true 2 way force. Doesn't hurt that he's been holding his own in scraps too.

Mac is core for now, but I don't think his game will age quite as gracefully as someone like Hedman as he enters his mid-30s. His defense is a sort of sell-out-your-body, all effort affair, whereas Hedman's is more cerebral and smooth. His offense has also dipped this year. To your point, he's still exceptional defensively, it's more the sustainability that has him trending down for me. While he's still a great player now, I'm not sure how long Mac will truly be irreplaceable for this team.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Hedman’s better than Makar right now. But, I definitely wouldn’t say it’s not even CLOSE.

I mean I wouldn’t say it’s close yet. Not only is hedman one of the best producers of offense from the backend, he is the best defender in the league. I mean offensively Cale probably has him beat, but it’s not even close defensively.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I mean I wouldn’t say it’s close yet. Not only is hedman one of the best producers of offense from the backend, he is the best defender in the league. I mean offensively Cale probably has him beat, but it’s not even close defensively.

Hedman is better than Makar, and you won’t hear me making any case otherwise right now.

I just don’t agree with the folks saying he can’t even hold Hedman’s jockstrap. Especially when Makar is already a better offensive player imo.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Hedman is better than Makar, and you want hear me making any case otherwise right now.

I just don’t agree with the folks saying he can’t even hold Hedman’s jockstrap. Especially when Makar is already a better offensive player imo.

Defensively that is the case, but I mean the kid was a rookie this year. He shouldn’t be competing with Hedman, long term it’ll get closer once Makar gets used to defending at the NHL level.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Defensively that is the case, but I mean the kid was a rookie this year. He shouldn’t be competing with Hedman, long term it’ll get closer once Makar gets used to defending at the NHL level.

Defensively there’s a pretty big gap. Not that Makar is poor defensively, but Hedman is spectacular in his own zone.

Offensively Makar is definitely more of a game changer in my opinion.

Overall Hedman is certainly the better defenceman, but I wouldn’t say AINEC.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Going forward? Absolutely Colorado.

Right now it is still Tampa.

 

[Meeqs]

Now would be interesting but the second you put 'in the future' its the Avs running away by a mile simply due to the ages involved

 

[VoluntaryDom]

I knew you loved Point while you hated Rants but didn’t expect this. This is laughable. Yes you can show me every CX6000XF stats there is I still pick Mack easily. Point is better defensively but what Mack brings offensively compared to Point it tips the scale rather easily to me. Point played 3 less games this year Mack still produced 30 more points than him despite missing Rantanen and Landeskog quite some games. Also Avs PP was atrocious when you watch their roster this should easily be a top 10 even top 5 team in the PP.

This is the way I see it :
Mack > Kuch (top scorers of their team not much to say. I expect Mack to be better than Kuch through the years I could be wrong tho)

Landeskog < Point (Both play center and are mostly used as their defensive side of their game while being able to produce. I expect the gap to widen through the years)

Rants < Stammer (Goal scorers of their team can also be good play makers 1st shot guys in their respective PP. A healthy Rantanen should close the gap very soon IMO)

Makar < Hedman (Weird that you put an equal there considering that Makar is still nowhere near as good as Hedman defensively. I expect him to be close though still a long way defensively but offensively Makar is IMO already better)

in each of the last two seasons point has beaten mackinnon in EVO GAR, and in PPO GAR. not at all convinced mackinnon is the better offensive player. and i put the = for makar because of age. as of right now hedman is by far the better defenseman but makar's upside is immense.

 

[EdJovanovski]

point>mackinnon
kucherov>rantanen
stamkos>landeskog
hedman>=makar
i dont see why anyone should pick colorado

I took Tampa AINEC, but MacK >>>> Point

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

in each of the last two seasons point has beaten mackinnon in EVO GAR, and in PPO GAR. not at all convinced mackinnon is the better offensive player. and i put the = for makar because of age. as of right now hedman is by far the better defenseman but makar's upside is immense.

Out of curiosity, would you always go with GAR on who is the better player?

MacKinnon had 29 more points than Point this year. What kind of a disparity of point advantage would MacKinnon have to have for you to pick him, if Point led the GAR? Or would GAR always reign supreme in your eyes?

 

[IPS]

Classic

That's gotta be up there with Gourde > Marner.

 

[Spilot23]

in each of the last two seasons point has beaten mackinnon in EVO GAR, and in PPO GAR. not at all convinced mackinnon is the better offensive player. and i put the = for makar because of age. as of right now hedman is by far the better defenseman but makar's upside is immense.

Just weird to me that you would pick Point the last two seasons when this year Mack has been outproducing him by 30 points. I don't know man at some points those advanced stats probably doesn't tell the whole story

I guess now I understand how come Pettersson is your top 1 ahead of guys like Drai, Mcdavid and Mack with a 66 points career high.

 

[Merrrlin]

in each of the last two seasons point has beaten mackinnon in EVO GAR, and in PPO GAR. not at all convinced mackinnon is the better offensive player. and i put the = for makar because of age. as of right now hedman is by far the better defenseman but makar's upside is immense.

It's so immense he might even turn out as good as Hedman!

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It's so immense he might even turn out as good as Hedman!

Hedman’s never really going to be a good comparable for Makar. They’re just such different players.

 

[bobholly39]

I might take some heat for this, but there aren’t ten defenceman in the league I’d take over Cale Makar.

Don't see why you would take any heat whatsoever for that. He might be a top 3 D you pick moving forward, let alone top 10.

But for right now - Hedman is better. And even if what you're actually saying is Makar is top 10 already (I don't see it - one season isn't enough, you have to see if he can repeat/sustain to earn that title) - you can be top 10 and still far from #1.

I think for the next ~3-5 years I take Hedman over Makar easily. No reason at all to expect Hedman to decline then, and he has a consistency and excellence to his game. If it's long-term Makar is the better choice obviously. He could hypothetically even be better in the next 3-5 years, I just think Hedman is the safer bet.

 

[Merrrlin]

Hedman’s never really going to be a good comparable for Makar. They’re just such different players.

Agreed. Who do you see as a comparable?

Burns, perhaps? I think Makar will score like Burns does, which is rare for D. Also has the skating+size combo.

20g - 80+pts peak with a Norris, a ton of Norris noms, a ton of 1st team AS games.

 

[tucker3434]

I could probably find an advanced stat that favors Jost over Crosby. That doesn’t tell me Jost is better than Crosby. It tells me I should look at more stats.

 

[DFC]

70 point defenseman are not better than a guy who put up almost 130 last year and was gonna get 100+ again. Kucherov when ever I watch the lightning is their best player. His offensive IQ is insane. Hedman is the best defenseman right now but I dont see him as a top 10 player.

Hedman and Kucherov are roughly equal. Hedman is a monster at both ends of the ice. It would be hard to differentiate between him, Kucherov, and MacKinnon. But, since Karlsson's decline, Hedman likely has become the league's best overall defenseman (as shown by the most recent two player polls, if I remember correctly).