Post-Game Talk: Lightning 5, Penguins 1 - It Was The Best of Times, It Was The Blurst of Times

[HandshakeLine]

I spent the night in the slammer

Dressed like MC Hammer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We're seeing a sample size of it right now.

Let's see what happens as soon as Rodrigues leaves their line this year.

You mean the sample size where Rodrigues has 5 points in 6 games?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Penguins at 5v5 this year:

With Rodrigues: 2.66 5v5 goals/60
W/o Rodrigues: 2.09 5v5 goals/60

Line combinations:

Guentzel-Rodrigues: 5.07 5v5 goals/60 (2 5v5 goals in 23.5 minutes)
Guentzel w/o Rodrigues: 2.76 5v5 goals/60 (2 5v5 goals in 43.5 minutes)

Rodrigues-Kapanen: 2.73 5v5 goals/60 (3 5v5 goals in 65 minutes)
Kapanen w/o Rodrigues: 0 5v5 goals/60 (0 5v5 goals in 12.5 minutes)

How about we stop blaming the whipping boy who's playing really well right now instead of pointing fingers at the big guns who aren't showing up? Let's be a little less dishonest here, don't you think?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You mean the sample size where Rodrigues has 5 points in 6 games?

The sample size where Rodrigues' presence negatively affects his linemates' production.

Individually, Rodrigues is performing well. But his style doesn't lend itself to facilitating offense for others, which really isn't news. He's not a regular scoring line center for a reason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The sample size where Rodrigues' presence affects his linemates' production.

Individually, Rodrigues is performing well. But his style doesn't lend itself to facilitating offense for others, which really isn't news. He's not a regular scoring line center for a reason.

Penguins at 5v5 this year:

With Rodrigues: 2.66 5v5 goals/60
W/o Rodrigues: 2.09 5v5 goals/60

Line combinations:

Guentzel-Rodrigues: 5.07 5v5 goals/60 (2 5v5 goals in 23.5 minutes)
Guentzel w/o Rodrigues: 2.76 5v5 goals/60 (2 5v5 goals in 43.5 minutes)

Rodrigues-Kapanen: 2.73 5v5 goals/60 (3 5v5 goals in 65 minutes)
Kapanen w/o Rodrigues: 0 5v5 goals/60 (0 5v5 goals in 12.5 minutes)

How about we stop blaming the whipping boy who's playing really well right now instead of pointing fingers at the big guns who aren't showing up? Let's be a little less dishonest here, don't you think?

The numbers literally show your argument is nonsensical.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jake and Kap have played like shit. E-Rod being kind of squirrely and not a legit, long-term scoring line option has no bearing on Kap aimlessly skating around looking like the puck is a grenade on his stick or Jake looking absolutely clueless in the defensive or neutral zones.

They've been bad. Call a spade a spade. It's half a dozen games into the season and I don't think either of them (or E-Rod for that matter) are as bad, or good, as they've seemed so far. But thus far, E-Rod is outplaying and outproducing his vaunted wingers and their struggles are entirely independent of E-Rod's influence.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The numbers literally show your argument is nonsensical.

You're comparing them playing with Rodrigues to them playing with the pitiful remnants of our center depth.

I'm talking about playing with Rodrigues vs. playing with actual scoring line centers in Crosby and Malkin.

These are not guys who can carry lines. They are complementary wingers, which is all this team has been designed to have.

 

[pistolpete11]

If we're only looking at production, then is 4P in 5G for Guentzel and 4P in 6G for Kap really out of the ordinary?

If we're talking about how they look, I don't see why it's so controversial to say they would look better with Crosby, Malkin, or even Carter as their C It's not an attack on E-Rod. He's playing great, especially compared to expectations, but he's not Crosby or Malkin and plays a different game than them. Guentzel and Kap are good players, but they are not guys to drive a line and if they are asked to, they aren't going to look as good. I mean, isn't that one of the common complaints around here? That this team is still too reliant on Crosby and Malkin to generate offense? Why would that change with those guys out of the lineup?

The way I look at it, everyone is making due until they start to get some guys back.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If we're only looking at production, then is 4P in 5G for Guentzel and 4P in 6G for Kap really out of the ordinary?

If we're talking about how they look, I don't see why it's so controversial to say they would look better with Crosby, Malkin, or even Carter as their C It's not an attack on E-Rod. He's playing great, especially compared to expectations, but he's not Crosby or Malkin and plays a different game than them. Guentzel and Kap are good players, but they are not guys to drive a line and if they are asked to, they aren't going to look as good. I mean, isn't that one of the common complaints around here? That this team is still too reliant on Crosby and Malkin to generate offense? Why would that change with those guys out of the lineup?

The way I look at it, everyone is making due until they start to get some guys back.

You literally have multiple people in here saying that their struggles are solely ERod's fault because "he can't finish chances" (despite him producing more than Guentzel and Kapanen this year) and "he brings down the scoring of his lines" (despite both Guentzel and Kapanen having worse numbers away from ERod than with ERod).

Trying to portray that as saying "they'd be better with Crosby, Malkin or Carter" is a huge jump from what is actually being said. Saying those guys would be better with Crosby, Malkin or Carter is perfectly reasonable. That's not what people in here are doing, people in here are blaming ERod for Guentzel and Kapanen sucking.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah Operation: Tread Water is pretty much about doing just as the name implies.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Personally, I just want to see these guys being the obvious best players on a roster missing like ~40% of their cap due to injury or illness. I don't really care about point totals a handful of games in, it's the way these guys look on the ice that's annoying/concerning. Again, I don't expect these guys to be a mess all season, or in E-Rod's case; good all season. I would be lying if I said it wasn't disappointing and potentially foreshadowing to see our two best wingers plodding around the ice listlessly while guys like Sid and Geno are out.

With Jake Guentzel and Kasperi Kapanen, your best players shouldn't be guys like Evan Rodrigues and Danton Heinen.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Dressed like MC Hammer.

Too legit to quit....

 

[Gurglesons]

@Dipsy Doodle Rodrigues is with Jake and Sid just to piss you off. I threw Sully a gift card to Dunkin.

 

[Ugene Magic]

E-Rod: -I'm thinking, being the end result, should be, him staying at center.

But how?

 

[pistolpete11]

You literally have multiple people in here saying that their struggles are solely ERod's fault because "he can't finish chances" (despite him producing more than Guentzel and Kapanen this year) and "he brings down the scoring of his lines" (despite both Guentzel and Kapanen having worse numbers away from ERod than with ERod).

Trying to portray that as saying "they'd be better with Crosby, Malkin or Carter" is a huge jump from what is actually being said. Saying those guys would be better with Crosby, Malkin or Carter is perfectly reasonable. That's not what people in here are doing, people in here are blaming ERod for Guentzel and Kapanen sucking.

Maybe I have those people on ignore, but @Dipsy Doodle is the only one I see and the way I read his posts, he's saying more or less the same thing as I am.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe I have those people on ignore, but @Dipsy Doodle is the only one I see and the way I read his posts, he's saying more or less the same thing as I am.

I think it is fair to say Kapanen and Jake are not producing because of Rodrigues, but at the same time Guentzel was playing with Carter and Zucker has produced with Rodrigues.

Guentzel - Rodrigues - Kapanen has also only played 18 minutes at 5v5 this year. So blaming both of there play on Rodrigues seems a little weird.

We all knew heading into this season center depth was going to be an issue. Kappy and Jake need to step up.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think it is fair to say Kapanen and Jake are not producing because of Rodrigues, but at the same time Guentzel was playing with Carter and Zucker has produced with Rodrigues.

Guentzel - Rodrigues - Kapanen has also only played 18 minutes at 5v5 this year. So blaming both of there play on Rodrigues seems a little weird.

We all knew heading into this season center depth was going to be an issue. Kappy and Jake need to step up.

I'm kind of confused on what the argument is. Are Guentzel and Kap not producing? They seem to be in line with their usual production despite not playing with Crosby and Malkin.

I thought the argument was how they looked. In which case, they are naturally going to be tasked with generating the offense without Crosby/Malkin, but that's not really what they are best suited for. It makes sense that they won't look as good in that role than they would with Crosby/Malkin driving things.



Also, if I'm not mistaken, Guentzel had 3 games with Carter as his C and in those games, he had 2 points, both at 5-on-5. Small sample size and all, but that's 'fine' production.

Again, if I'm not mistaken, Zucker-E-Rod have 48min of 5-on-5 time together and they generated 1 goal. I'm not here to say that's bad, but holding that up as an example of what Jake/Kap should be doing seems off.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm kind of confused on what the argument is. Are Guentzel and Kap not producing? They seem to be in line with their usual production despite not playing with Crosby and Malkin.

I thought the argument was how they looked. In which case, they are naturally going to be tasked with generating the offense without Crosby/Malkin, but that's not really what they are best suited for. It makes sense that they won't look as good in that role than they would with Crosby/Malkin driving things.



Also, if I'm not mistaken, Guentzel had 3 games with Carter as his C and in those games, he had 2 points, both at 5-on-5. Small sample size and all, but that's 'fine' production.

Again, if I'm not mistaken, Zucker-E-Rod have 48min of 5-on-5 time together and they generated 1 goal. I'm not here to say that's bad, but holding that up as an example of what Jake/Kap should be doing seems off.

The production is fine for the entire team. From the eye test, Kappy is off and Jake is physically diminished as he has been since the shoulder injury. He will keep putting up points this year but he went from average in all other facets to pretty bad.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm kind of confused on what the argument is. Are Guentzel and Kap not producing? They seem to be in line with their usual production despite not playing with Crosby and Malkin.

I thought the argument was how they looked. In which case, they are naturally going to be tasked with generating the offense without Crosby/Malkin, but that's not really what they are best suited for. It makes sense that they won't look as good in that role than they would with Crosby/Malkin driving things.



Also, if I'm not mistaken, Guentzel had 3 games with Carter as his C and in those games, he had 2 points, both at 5-on-5. Small sample size and all, but that's 'fine' production.

Again, if I'm not mistaken, Zucker-E-Rod have 48min of 5-on-5 time together and they generated 1 goal. I'm not here to say that's bad, but holding that up as an example of what Jake/Kap should be doing seems off.

Jake and Kapanen are getting soft assists. The expectation is these guys would chip in more than 1 goal from me personally.

I mean Brian Boyle has more goals than those two combined.

 

[ColePens]

I can't even fathom complaining about any of our "plug" players from Erod to ZAR. Those guys have shown up and punched so far above their weight. If anything, the complaining could be on Kap/Jake, but that's more just for discussion and no need to panic.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This game was decided within a 3 minute window. The Pens were buzzin and had like a 2 minutes of zone time with great chances, and then let one in the other way immediately after. 10 seconds later another one. It was uphill from there.

+Zucker/DOC
+McGinn

This is why I always say it's not how MANY saves a goalie makes, but WHEN he makes them. This to me was a big issue with MAF. Tell me Game7 in 2009 vs the Caps doesn't go differently if he doesn't stone Ovi on a breakaway early on and the Pens dominate the rest of the way.

Well then it seemed MAF got the yips and let in all sorts of early goals and made me really sour on him. He gave up untimely goals in 2012, 2013 and well pretty much every since.

Pens were coming on strong and ready to break through...had all the momentum last night and while not an easy save, it was a makeable one that could have really been the pivot point to get something.
After that you could tell the team was sunk.

I still remain a Jarry fan boi though.

Side note- when you win the previous game 7-1 and all the pucks that went in that typically should not have, you know that luck is eventually going the other way. How many posts did we ring last night?
That my friends is called regressing to the mean.

 

[Rakell67]

Too legit to quit....

You got to pray!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

@Dipsy Doodle Rodrigues is with Jake and Sid just to piss you off. I threw Sully a gift card to Dunkin.

I'm shocked. Truly.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We all knew heading into this season center depth was going to be an issue. Kappy and Jake need to step up.

Given how the team is playing on a whole though, they don't.

We're fortunate that a lot of the scrapyard pickups are playing above their heads. It makes Kapanen and Guentzel stepping up a luxury right now, rather than a necessity.

Water will find its level soon enough.

 

[Gurglesons]

Given how the team is playing on a whole though, they don't.

We're fortunate that a lot of the scrapyard pickups are playing above their heads. It makes Kapanen and Guentzel stepping up a luxury right now, rather than a necessity.

Water will find its level soon enough.

I don’t agree. Either of them chipping in a goal or two probably results in us having a few extra points.