OT: Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... The Sequel!!

[WhiskeySeven*]

Why do I get the feeling in this thread that to read your posts I should be wearing a monocle and tweed sport coat smoking a pipe and sipping XO cognac.

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

 

[Bloumeister]

Why do I get the feeling in this thread that to read your posts I should be wearing a monocle and tweed sport coat smoking a pipe and sipping XO cognac.

It's actually mandatory. Please do come back when you're conveniently dressed, sir

 

[Bloumeister]

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

I had to go through **** like this in another lifetime. The memories

 

[DAChampion]

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

I'm down with pretentious as long as you can back it up, which I guess defeats the purpose because then it's not pretending

 

[hototogisu]

Please tell me you've seen the Before Sunrise movies, and The Diving Bell and the Butterfly... and Woody Allen's European movies.

edit: The Talented Mister Ripley had really pretty images too

Only Before Sunrise and some of the Woody Allen movies, I'll keep the others in mind.

Days of Heaven, Paris Texas, Easy Rider, Two-Lane Blacktop and Walkabout are a few others off the top of my head that evoke the kind of slower and landscape-obsessed movies I enjoy.

 

[xposbrad]

I just saw The Exam that came out a couple of years ago. If you like movies like Cube then you will love this movie. I watch a lot of movies, but this one gets a solid 8/10.

 

[Agnostic]

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

That chick will probably be upsizing your fries some day. Be sure to tell her life is a performance when the sign says smiles are free.

 

[Kimota]

Yeah it's very predictable, they use a nuclear bomb to defeat the mega threat, just like in independence day, pacific rim, etc etc etc. That's not the point of the movie though, so your point is moot.

FYI good writing can be very predictable, because good writing means logical and consistent characters and world-building. If you just have a bunch of surprising shocks, you are less predictable, but you are also producing inferior writing.

But there's nothing really interesting or surprising about that Oblivion script. It looks pretty but that's about it.

Overblown Twilight Zone episode.

 

[Kimota]

I see the allegory but I still don't think it was an effective story. I might have to watch it again though.


My list would begin and end with The Dark Knight and Watchmen, maybe Batman Begins but definitely not Rises. The rest of them, if the main characters didn't have superpowers, would expose the terrible dialogue, plot devices and acting which plague these movies.

X-Men could've been about what it means to be a mutant, what it means to be really different and all that. So much rich subtext available and they chose the wrong themes every. single. time.

Like most things with Chris Nolan, DKR was overwritten for no damn reasons.

 

[jpchabby]

Didn't post anythint I think in this thread, but I like what I see

I have to admit, I don't know how many times I've seen the Matrix trilogy, but everytime I see it, it amazes me.

 

[mitchmagic]

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

Makes sense actually.

 

[DAChampion]

Didn't post anythint I think in this thread, but I like what I see

I have to admit, I don't know how many times I've seen the Matrix trilogy, but everytime I see it, it amazes me.

The first two Matrix movies are brilliant.

Matrix Revolutions is awful.

 

[Kimota]

If you only knew how truly pretentious and obnoxious some of my contemporaries are when it comes to this stuff. I met an old friend today who said she's in a masters program in Performance Studies. I asked what that was, and she said "Life. Anything. Basically everything is a performance." I asked if she meant, like, acting or something and she responded "Living is a performance. Gender is a performance."

And it got worse.

So did you show her a male performance?

 

[DAChampion]

But there's nothing really interesting or surprising about that Oblivion script. It looks pretty but that's about it.

The Tet being alien, Titan being a scam, and the scabs being human, is obvious only after you know what the plot is about. Of course once you know the point of the story "it's obvious", which merely shows that the allegory is coherent. You can predict everything by simply asking "what would make sense given the allegory?"

Like most things with Chris Nolan, DKR was overwritten for no damn reasons.

Dark Knight Rises was written by David Goyer, unlike the previous movie which was written by Jonathan Nolan.

 

[Kimota]

The Tet being alien, Titan being a scam, and the scabs being human, is obvious only after you know what the plot is about. Of course once you know the point of the story "it's obvious", which merely shows that the allegory is coherent. You can predict everything by simply asking "what would make sense given the allegory?"

But I find it boring. It's like writing something from A to B to C and say it's coherent and it's good because it's coherent but it's rather not surprising and exciting. I wish there would have been more resolution and perhaps meeting the aliens and go deeper into the story.

Dark Knight Rises was written by David Goyer, unlike the previous movie which was written by Jonathan Nolan.

Chris Nolan has involved himself very much in every scripts. I remember around Batman Begins, Goyer had writing credit but Nolan said it was very much him and Goyer sitting face to face in the same room.

 

[DAChampion]

But I find it boring. It's like writing something from A to B to C and say it's coherent and it's good because it's coherent but it's rather not surprising and exciting. I wish there would have been more resolution and perhaps meeting the aliens and go deeper into the story.

"Boring" is subjective. Oblivion is about a very specific issue, and related issues, if these issues are not of interest to you, then you won't find it interesting.

Meeting the aliens would have undermined the story. Part of the point is that they're unattainable, so they should not be reduced to corporeal form. Resolution would have undermined the story as well, because the movie is about the effects of a system, not about overcoming the system and what comes after. I'd actually argue that there was too much resolution.

Chris Nolan has involved himself very much in every scripts. I remember around Batman Begins, Goyer had writing credit but Nolan said it was very much him and Goyer sitting face to face in the same room.

Either way, Jonathan Nolan is probably the best writer of the three, and he was most involved in the second one.

 

[Bloumeister]

Like most things with Chris Nolan, DKR was overwritten for no damn reasons.

Overwritten, stretched to served a deficient storyline (a never-ending siege while Batman recovers, how convenient), full of plot holes and situations that made no sense (big brawl between cops and bad guys and NO ONE THINKS OF SHOOTING BANE?), and poorly acted:



What's with all the mumbling in these Batman movies? Does the director not realize that people in front of the screen can't comprehend a thing?

Chris Nolan is ambitious, I'll give him that. He sometimes bites off more than he can chew, but his movies are never boring. They're well-crafted, visually stunning, and keep you on edge. I just wish he'd simplify his storytelling. Go easy on plot twists, tell a more linear story. Not every movie needs to be Inception or Memento. The Miranda/Talia plot twist in DKR was the movie's Achilles' heel, IMO: you can see it coming from miles, and it's poorly executed, mainly because you don't care for the character in the first place. Nolan should have tightened up the script or rewrote the character in order to make her more than just a plot device... but then the whole storyline would have had to be redone, right?

That being said, the Dark Knight trilogy is still very enjoyable moviemaking.

 

[Bloumeister]

The first two Matrix movies are brilliant.

Matrix Revolutions is awful.

Like Nolan, the Wachowskis are ambitious (or at least they were), but there's only so much high concept you can cram into a 2-hour flick before it feels forced or unnatural (for lack of a better term). Matrix 2 and 3 could have played on the original movie concept and introduced a few new 'rules', and moviegoers would have been OK with that. Instead, they went heavy on philosophical issues and a brilliant idea went down the crapper.

It's usually better to streamline/refine/purify the script in order to make a better flowing movie (linear or not). V For Vendetta is a good example of that. The Wachowskis took a great story by Alan Moore, adapted it to the medium, and added just enough of their own touch (both storywise and visually) to put together their best movie.

 

[MasterDecoy]

ok, im going go out and say it: i hated the last batman whatever the **** it was called. that was definitely on my ****-list of 2013. just godawful

the second one had one redeeming quality and that was heath ledger. so redeeming that the mother****er made me enjoy it the first time. second time even he couldn't save that piece of junk.

the first one i forgot but i remember feeling "so what?"

disclaimer: i generally don't like superhero movies. i also dislike stupid movies

oh **** it, while im pissing off nerds i'll add fuel to the flames: lords of the rings was a giant steaming pile of ****

 

[Bloumeister]

ok, im going go out and say it: i hated the last batman whatever the **** it was called. that was definitely on my ****-list of 2013. just godawful

the second one had one redeeming quality and that was heath ledger. so redeeming that the mother****er made me enjoy it the first time. second time even he couldn't save that piece of junk.

the first one i forgot but i remember feeling "so what?"

disclaimer: i generally don't like superhero movies. i also dislike stupid movies

oh **** it, while im pissing off nerds i'll add fuel to the flames: lords of the rings was a giant steaming pile of ****

Another Habs loss, another pissed-off poster

You gotta let go at some point, though. The Dark Knight Rises came out in 2012

As much as I loved Ledger in TDK, the movie I see the movie (it's on TV five ****ing times per week), the more I find the movie... ordinary. It really hinges on Ledger's performance.

 

[Brainiac]

oh **** it, while im pissing off nerds i'll add fuel to the flames: lords of the rings was a giant steaming pile of ****

Well, I think I can top that.

I read the books, watched the movies, went back to read the books again. And now, I'm liking the movies a lot more than the books.

The LOTR books were, honestly, very poorly edited. Peter Jackson actually did a great job.

 

[DAChampion]

Like Nolan, the Wachowskis are ambitious (or at least they were), but there's only so much high concept you can cram into a 2-hour flick before it feels forced or unnatural (for lack of a better term). Matrix 2 and 3 could have played on the original movie concept and introduced a few new 'rules', and moviegoers would have been OK with that. Instead, they went heavy on philosophical issues and a brilliant idea went down the crapper.

It's usually better to streamline/refine/purify the script in order to make a better flowing movie (linear or not). V For Vendetta is a good example of that. The Wachowskis took a great story by Alan Moore, adapted it to the medium, and added just enough of their own touch (both storywise and visually) to put together their best movie.

V for Vendetta was too heavy-handed for me, I felt like I was being lectured by a school teacher repeating herself over and over. Also, they bastardised the story, they made it about George Bush Jr. even though the original comic came out in the 1980s. I thought the movie was an American left-wing branfart, then I looked up what Alan Moore had to say "American liberal fantasy" ... I felt vindicated

Matrix 2 built upon the philosophical issues in the first one in a very straightforward manner: both are essentially marxist in their philosophy. Neo is an integral anomaly, therefore it logically follows that Smith might emerge as well. Excellent. However, it was not the extrapolation that fans of the first one had envisioned, so it was rejected. Expectations are almost always impossible to meet.

ETA: But like Oblivion, Matrix Reloaded was an advanced concept, so I think people didn't get it. I certainly didn't get it when I watched it in 2002 or whenever. I can understand it now. I don't think people have any clue what the first Matrix movie is about either, but it has an original concept (hybrid computer simulation mixed with slow motion martial arts) so people were like "yeah" !!! Then the originality wore off. The same can probably be said about Fight Club, which is rated the 10th greatest movie of all time on imdb.

 

[DAChampion]

As much as I loved Ledger in TDK, the movie I see the movie (it's on TV five ****ing times per week), the more I find the movie... ordinary. It really hinges on Ledger's performance.

It also has a terrific score, Aaron Eckhart's performance, very good action scenes by a director who uses ~75% less CGI and less green screen than his contemporaries, an extremely focused script that is focused on a single issue (what kind of hero does Gotham need?), a setting (Gotham) that is well-built and actually provides a sense of place, and a narrative that flows organically from the continuity established in the first film.

But you shouldn't watch movies on TV. These are usually not the director's cut as hey cut out a lot of scenes, and the commercials really cut the mood and break the tension. Part of the movie's strength is that it has an incredibly consistent tone and build-up of tension and escalation... so you're stripping it of richness it when watching it on TV. It's like watching Avatar on a black and white cell phone, or watching "Chicago" or "Dirty Dancing" with the sound turned off.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Another Habs loss, another pissed-off poster

nah man, im the 1%. not the 1% that steals all your money, but the one that doesn't turn into a 14 year old girl after every loss. also: didn't even watch the game, i was sleeping

You gotta let go at some point, though. The Dark Knight Rises came out in 2012

really? feels just like yesterday

 

[Bloumeister]

V for Vendetta was too heavy-handed for me. Also, they bastardised the story, they made it about George Bush Jr. even though the original comic came out in the 1980s. I thought the movie was an American left-wing branfart, then I looked up what Alan Moore had to say "American liberal fantasy" ... I felt vindicated

I can understabd you feeling that way. You're right about the switched settings. I wouldn't go as far as calling it 'bastardized', though I'm sure Alan Moore did

I don't think that a straight-up adaptation of the 80's setting would have worked. And while I can understand Moore being protective about his work (and can't anyone in Hollywood come up with an original story anymore, FFS?), I don't buy this 'US liberal fantasy' bullcrap. Fact: history shows that fascist/totalitarian regimes CAN and WILL take control of any given society if you let them. The Wachowski siblings (now brother and sister ) took the ball and ran with it. It was their choice to set the story in a more 'actual' world, and they made the most of it: a compelling, visually stunning movie that I enjoyed a lot more than Moore's books.

Matrix 2 built upon the philosophical issues in the first one in a very straightforward manner: both are essentially marxist in their philosophy. However, it was not the extrapolation that fans of the first one had envisioned, so it was rejected. Expectations are almost always impossible to meet.

Matrix 2 and 3 were destined to fail, you're right... but the Wachowskis were wrong. Movies are first and foremost entertainment. Escapism. The common moviegoer just wants to enjoy the ride, so to speak. If the underlying themes of a movie, as noble, straightforward or thought-provoking as they can be, take away from the overall viewing pleasure, then you've done your job wrong.

Bottom line: I'm fine with having to choose between the blue and red pill, but please don't force it down my throat.