Value of: Letang to your team for futures

[Empoleon8771]

Toronto- sandin, Johnson

Pit- Letang 50% retained

Lol not even close.

Would you take that offer for Pietrangelo if he was signed to the contract Letang was signed to?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I shudder to think of what our defense would look like without Letang. We'd essentially have one good pairing (Dumo/Marino).

As long as we have Johnson back there, it doesn't matter if we have Bobby Orr and Chris Pronger back there.

I think we should move on from Letang if the right deal comes along. He's a hell of a player but he's too damn emotional and what makes him great is the freedom to use his athleticism and make plays. Marino is emerging. That defense needs depth. I'd much rather have a super solid top 4 that puts Petterson in the 3rd pairing than a star defenseman that is a game breaker with a 3rd pairing that's just a vulnerability every time they're on the ice.

 

[Colt55]

Lol not even close.

Would you take that offer for Pietrangelo if he was signed to the contract Letang was signed to?

Nope
But letang isn't petro. Not by a long shot.

 

[Colt55]

Nope
But letang isn't petro. Not by a long shot.

Also blues are not making huge changes to their team

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nope
But letang isn't petro. Not by a long shot.

You're underrating Letang massively if you think there's a big difference between Letang and Pietrangelo.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why wouldnt Toronto just cut out useless middle man Pittsburgh? That's beyond stupid for Toronto.

Sorry but Letang to Toronto doesn't make sense.

He's in no way what the Leafs are looking for and we're certainly not taking him on just to allow Pittsburgh to be a random third team in a trade and make out like bandits.

His age/injury concerns could be valid, but assuming healthy Letang, I don't understand how anyone could say he's not exactly what Toronto is looking for. Healthy Letang is perfect for what Toronto needs, given both his position (RHD), his two-way ability AND his relatively cheap salary (compared to what you'd have to pay for any other elite RD).

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Jesus, I even put in:



It's also as if people intentionally skip important parts of posts that help establish context.

But the name matters. And so does the team that person plays for.

 

[Liferleafer]

Are people really thinking that the Leafs, a cap strapped team, are going to trade futures/young pieces for 33 year old Letang?

 

[biturbo19]

Here’s the problem.

Any team that needs/wants Letang is a cup contender. And I can’t think of any current cup contender that could just absorb his 7m cap hit without sending money back.


Toronto jumps out as an obvious fit but they are tight against the cap. Ceci and Barrie are both UFA so if they walk maybe they could afford to bring in Letang on a futures deal but even then it’s slim chances.

Yeah. That does seem to be a potential stumbling block. There are a few teams out there, but with a flat cap and a lot of owners apparently hurting right now...options are tricky.


One workaround i could see, would be one of those "phantom money" swaps. Like, Vancouver for example, where Letang would be a huge boon to a serious push while they have some key guys on ELCs. If they could put together the right package of futures/cheap players together, might be able to lump a contract like Loui Eriksson in there for "cap purposes".

In the sense that if Penguins are looking to spend less actual cash next season...Letang's deal looks like it's just a straight-up $7.25M salary per year for the next three years. So, $14.5M over the next two years. Whereas the Eriksson contract carries a similar cap hit that would clear up space in that regard, but is very bonus-heavy and weirdly loaded. So after the initial $3M bonus is paid (which presumably has already happened back in July?), it should be more like $4M actual money over the next two years. Which would be saving $10.5M, which ain't nothing.


Obviously would come down to whether or not the Canucks could put together the right package of "futures" and stuff to make the deal work. There are pieces there. What would it really look like though?

Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, or the one 1st rounder that the Canucks have in the next couple years would probably have to be the central "futures piece". An effective, cheap piece like Stecher might be useful for the Pens as a RHD backfill. Young cheaper players like Virtanen and Guadette would probably also have to be on the table. Is there some reasonable combination of those sort of parts and pieces that would kinda mimic the Karlsson trade formula well enough?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are people really thinking that the Leafs, a cap strapped team, are going to trade futures/young pieces for 33 year old Letang?

Nylander for Letang is a pretty cap neutral swap and it addresses an absolutely massive need for them. They're a cup favorite next year just by doing that move, that's how big of a game changer Letang would be for them.

Yeah. That does seem to be a potential stumbling block. There are a few teams out there, but with a flat cap and a lot of owners apparently hurting right now...options are tricky.


One workaround i could see, would be one of those "phantom money" swaps. Like, Vancouver for example, where Letang would be a huge boon to a serious push while they have some key guys on ELCs. If they could put together the right package of futures/cheap players together, might be able to lump a contract like Loui Eriksson in there for "cap purposes".

In the sense that if Penguins are looking to spend less actual cash next season...Letang's deal looks like it's just a straight-up $7.25M salary per year for the next three years. So, $14.5M over the next two years. Whereas the Eriksson contract carries a similar cap hit that would clear up space in that regard, but is very bonus-heavy and weirdly loaded. So after the initial $3M bonus is paid (which presumably has already happened back in July?), it should be more like $4M actual money over the next two years. Which would be saving $10.5M, which ain't nothing.


Obviously would come down to whether or not the Canucks could put together the right package of "futures" and stuff to make the deal work. There are pieces there. What would it really look like though?

Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, or the one 1st rounder that the Canucks have in the next couple years would probably have to be the central "futures piece". An effective, cheap piece like Stecher might be useful for the Pens as a RHD backfill. Young cheaper players like Virtanen and Guadette would probably also have to be on the table. Is there some reasonable combination of those sort of parts and pieces that would kinda mimic the Karlsson trade formula well enough?

Eriksson has significantly negative value and the Penguins still want to be good next year. The Penguins aren't going to be taking your cap dumps back in exchange for Letang, unless you're offering something so stupid that it makes it worthwhile for them to do that.

 

[Liferleafer]

Nylander for Letang is a pretty cap neutral swap and it addresses an absolutely massive need for them. They're a cup favorite next year just by doing that move, that's how big of a game changer Letang would be for them.



Eriksson has significantly negative value and the Penguins still want to be good next year. The Penguins aren't going to be taking your cap dumps back in exchange for Letang, unless you're offering something so stupid that it makes it worthwhile for them to do that.

Come on, Nylander for Letang is not a neutral swap....the age difference and mileage on the 2 players alone makes this way off on value. I have no issue dealing Nylander or Marner...i know the Leafs need to address the D from a position of strength...but no way is 33 year old Letang a target i would look at.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Come on, Nylander for Letang is not a neutral swap....the age difference and mileage on the 2 players alone makes this way off on value. I have no issue dealing Nylander or Marner...i know the Leafs need to address the D from a position of strength...but no way is 33 year old Letang a target i would look at.

I said it was a cap neutral swap.

The age difference is a significant impact, but Letang plays a dramatically more valuable position than Nylander and is a better player right now than Nylander is. Not to mention that the Leafs immediately shoot to cup favorites if they add Letang to their defense, while Nylander is at least somewhat replaceable already. Also, not everything is about getting "fair value", scoffing at the opportunity to fill the biggest need your organization has had for the last decade because "we want better value!" is a great way to not win anything.

 

[TheUltimateOiler]

The real deal Neal + puljujarvi + 1st + samourukov for Letang.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The real deal Neal + puljujarvi + 1st + samourukov for Letang.

Yeah, this isn't getting you a #1 defenseman

I don't even know where to begin with this. Puljujarvi and a 1st is probably the cost to just get out of Neal's contract.

 

[Liferleafer]

I said it was a cap neutral swap.

The age difference is a significant impact, but Letang plays a dramatically more valuable position than Nylander and is a better player right now than Nylander is. Not to mention that the Leafs immediately shoot to cup favorites if they add Letang to their defense, while Nylander is at least somewhat replaceable already. Also, not everything is about getting "fair value", scoffing at the opportunity to fill the biggest need your organization has had for the last decade because "we want better value!" is a great way to not win anything.

Come on man...Letang in no way makes the Leafs a cup contender....i mean some of us did watch the Habs/Pens series. And ya, the Leafs bombed as well, but it wasn't our that killed us.

 

[TBF1972]

how about something like crosby for something like a 2nd?

someone like?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Come on man...Letang in no way makes the Leafs a cup contender....i mean some of us did watch the Habs/Pens series. And ya, the Leafs bombed as well, but it wasn't our that killed us.

If you thought Letang played poorly based on the Habs/Pens series, I seriously question your ability to evaluate hockey players.

This thread is going a great job at reminding me how bad hockey discussion is on the main boards

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Come on man...Letang in no way makes the Leafs a cup contender....i mean some of us did watch the Habs/Pens series. And ya, the Leafs bombed as well, but it wasn't our that killed us.

Saying "come on" before every post doesn't make what you're saying any more correct. If you watched the Montreal series like you claim, you'd know that the only pairing that struggled was the atrocious bottom pairing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Letang makes the Leafs a top cup contender because he's an elite defenseman at ES by every measurable analytic that we have. He's not a Barrie style OFD who just puts up points, he's a legitimate force at 5v5 at both ends of the ice. His best asset is his skating and puck moving, which can have a team changing impact in terms of possession numbers and transition game.

Put him with Muzzin and have Reilly anchor the 2nd pair and the Leafs have a stunningly talented team.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Please trade your best defenseman for futures I’m begging you

 

[Liferleafer]

Saying "come on" before every post doesn't make what you're saying any more correct. If you watched the Montreal series like you claim, you'd know that the only pairing that struggled was the atrocious bottom pairing.

Sorry, i'm not trying to be confrontational. So lets just say this, the Pens have gotten the best out of Letang, and it's understandable that at this point,they are trying to get younger. It's also understandable that the Leafs are looking to improve the D. That said, the age difference alone skews this deal in the Pens favor....add to that the cap difference, the term difference and the what these 2 players are likely to be going forward.

It's safe to say that Nylander will likely be trending up, while the age and injuries of Letang point to him going backwards shortly.

Add to that the fact that Letang is offense 1st, not bashing his D play, just saying what it is.

I hope that more explains my point of view.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sorry, i'm not trying to be confrontational. So lets just say this, the Pens have gotten the best out of Letang, and it's understandable that at this point,they are trying to get younger. It's also understandable that the Leafs are looking to improve the D. That said, the age difference alone skews this deal in the Pens favor....add to that the cap difference, the term difference and the what these 2 players are likely to be going forward.

It's safe to say that Nylander will likely be trending up, while the age and injuries of Letang point to him going backwards shortly.

Add to that the fact that Letang is offense 1st, not bashing his D play, just saying what it is.

I hope that more explains my point of view.

I don't really think this is accurate when it comes to Letang.

Letang isn't an OFD or a DFD, he's a 2-way PMD. His greatest attribute comes from his skating and puck moving, not his play in the offensive zone. Letang has been used as the Penguins shutdown D for literally a decade. Letang is closer to someone like Scott Niedermayer than Brent Burns, he's a 2-way puck moving D, not an OFD. He's a pretty similar player to Rielly in terms of play style.

I can see being hesitant with doing Nylander for Letang due to the age difference (although I don't think the Penguins would fancy Nylander tbh), but the Leafs are a better team with that swap and any difference in age is probably negated out by Letang playing a much more valuable position.

 

[Liferleafer]

I don't really think this is accurate when it comes to Letang.

Letang isn't an OFD or a DFD, he's a 2-way PMD. His greatest attribute comes from his skating and puck moving, not his play in the offensive zone. Letang has been used as the Penguins shutdown D for literally a decade. Letang is closer to someone like Scott Niedermayer than Brent Burns, he's a 2-way puck moving D, not an OFD. He's a pretty similar player to Rielly in terms of play style.

I can see being hesitant with doing Nylander for Letang due to the age difference (although I don't think the Penguins would fancy Nylander tbh), but the Leafs are a better team with that swap and any difference in age is probably negated out by Letang playing a much more valuable position.

We shall agree to disagree.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sorry, i'm not trying to be confrontational. So lets just say this, the Pens have gotten the best out of Letang, and it's understandable that at this point,they are trying to get younger. It's also understandable that the Leafs are looking to improve the D. That said, the age difference alone skews this deal in the Pens favor....add to that the cap difference, the term difference and the what these 2 players are likely to be going forward.

It's safe to say that Nylander will likely be trending up, while the age and injuries of Letang point to him going backwards shortly.

Depends when you want to contend. If the Leafs aren't expecting to contend for another 4 or 5 seasons, then sure, Letang's not the guy they want. But then again, Tavares was a bad signing if that's the case.

But if the Leafs expect to contend *now*, then Letang is certainly still playing at an elite level and will help them for the next 3 or so seasons.

Add to that the fact that Letang is offense 1st, not bashing his D play, just saying what it is.

I hope that more explains my point of view.

He's not really offense first, though, any more than a lot of these guys like Pietrangelo, Doughty, Josi, etc. are "offense first". He's an all around defenseman who can jump into the attack, but who can also hold his own against the other team's top line. He's not Mike Green or Tyson Barrie.

 

[Liferleafer]

Depends when you want to contend. If the Leafs aren't expecting to contend for another 4 or 5 seasons, then sure, Letang's not the guy they want. But then again, Tavares was a bad signing if that's the case.

But if the Leafs expect to contend *now*, then Letang is certainly still playing at an elite level and will help them for the next 3 or so seasons.



He's not really offense first, though, any more than a lot of these guys like Pietrangelo, Doughty, Josi, etc. are "offense first". He's an all around defenseman who can jump into the attack, but who can also hold his own against the other team's top line. He's not Mike Green or Tyson Barrie.

A. Tavares was a bad signing IMO, that money shoud have been used on defense.

B. I would rather target Manson (if available) or look at a deal like Dumba if we are moving Nylander. again, not saying Letang wouldn't be good in the next couple years, but i am looking more lonf term.