Value of: Letang to your team for futures

[Empoleon8771]

Inside the Penguins’ collapse and the big changes still to come

This article from this morning says the Penguins are going to be a "budget" team for next year due to loss revenue during the pandemic, with plans at only falling in the low to mid 70s for the cap next year. If the Penguins feel this way, it likely means that a lot of other teams also feel this way, which would make dumping bad contracts like Bjugstad and Johnson extremely difficult. It also says that rivals expect the Penguins to explore trading Letang. So let's combine the two ideas. What teams do you think could be interested in Letang, and what futures based returns would they give?

For comparison, the only top pair D that have been traded for futures that I can find are Karlsson in 2018 and Pronger in 2009, and I definitely think Letang isn't on par with either of those. Those deals were:

Karlsson: DeMelo, Tierney, Balcers, Norris, a 1st, a 2nd and 2 conditional 1sts (one on re-signing, one on being traded to the East)
Pronger: Lupul, Sbisa and 2 1sts in 2009 and Lupul, Smid, a 1st, a 2nd and a conditional 1st in 2006 (condition on making the 2007 finals, yes Lupul was traded for Pronger twice from 2 different teams)

Letang also has a 12 team NTC, that should be worth mentioning as well. Based on those two deals, I think a young NHLer with a middle-6 or middle pair upside, a good prospect and a late 1st may be a reasonable base, but I'm not sure what teams could offer that.

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[Toby Flenderson]

Here’s the problem.

Any team that needs/wants Letang is a cup contender. And I can’t think of any current cup contender that could just absorb his 7m cap hit without sending money back.


Toronto jumps out as an obvious fit but they are tight against the cap. Ceci and Barrie are both UFA so if they walk maybe they could afford to bring in Letang on a futures deal but even then it’s slim chances.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here’s the problem.

Any team that needs/wants Letang is a cup contender. And I can’t think of any current cup contender that could just absorb his 7m cap hit without sending money back.


Toronto jumps out as an obvious fit but they are tight against the cap. Ceci and Barrie are both UFA so if they walk maybe they could afford to bring in Letang on a futures deal but even then it’s slim chances.

I think Toronto could probably do Nylander to someone else for futures and then do futures for Letang if they really wanted Letang.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

I think Toronto could probably do Nylander to someone else for futures and then do futures for Letang if they really wanted Letang.

Not a bad idea in my opinion but I can already tell Leafs fans are going to throw a fit over the idea of trading Nylander for a defenseman in his 30’s

Edit: Honestly though, if they are willing to cough up Nylander for Letang, I wonder if JR just says screw the futures and takes Nylander. He’s young enough and we need a RW anyways

 

[SEALBound]

I think Toronto could probably do Nylander to someone else for futures and then do futures for Letang if they really wanted Letang.

Just spit balling here but I wonder if there's a younger "cheaper" team with a quality dman prospect that would be willing to do a blue chip ELC for Nylander and then that blue chip + to the Pens for Letang.

Something "like" (don't get emotional about a name, it's a placeholder):

Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Brannstrom to Pit
Letang to Toronto
Nylander to the 3rd team

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not a bad idea in my opinion but I can already tell Leafs fans are going to throw a fit over the idea of trading Nylander for a defenseman in his 30’s

Edit: Honestly though, if they are willing to cough up Nylander for Letang, I wonder if JR just says screw the futures and takes Nylander. He’s young enough and we need a RW anyways

The Penguins would be trading Letang to cut money, not to get someone on par with Nylander. If you do Letang for Nylander, you barely save any money and your only money saving trade chip is gone.

Just spit balling here but I wonder if there's a younger "cheaper" team with a quality dman prospect that would be willing to do a blue chip ELC for Nylander and then that blue chip + to the Pens for Letang.

Something "like" (don't get emotional about a name, it's a placeholder):

Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Brannstrom to Pit
Letang to Toronto
Nylander to the 3rd team

You are definitely not getting a young defenseman on par with that for Letang. If Toronto could get that for Nylander himself, they'd just keep that defenseman.

A more realistic 3 team trade is something like:

Penguins get Jost, Timmins and Colorado's 1st
Leafs get Letang
Colorado gets Nylander

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Just spit balling here but I wonder if there's a younger "cheaper" team with a quality dman prospect that would be willing to do a blue chip ELC for Nylander and then that blue chip + to the Pens for Letang.

Something "like" (don't get emotional about a name, it's a placeholder):

Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Brannstrom to Pit
Letang to Toronto
Nylander to the 3rd team

Yikes dude.. take out Makar before someone else sees that


And that hole situation is unrealistic. Even if a Makar-type player was available and could be had for Nylander, why would Toronto prefer the older Letang to him??

 

[Toby Flenderson]

The Penguins would be trading Letang to cut money, not to get someone on par with Nylander. If you do Letang for Nylander, you barely save any money and your only money saving trade chip is gone.



You are definitely not getting a young defenseman on par with that for Letang. If Toronto could get that for Nylander himself, they'd just keep that defenseman.

A more realistic 3 team trade is something like:

Penguins get Jost, Timmins and Colorado's 1st
Leafs get Letang
Colorado gets Nylander

That would be quite the haul for Letang. I would accept that in a heartbeat. Don’t think Colorado does that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That would be quite the haul for Letang. I would accept that in a heartbeat. Don’t think Colorado does that.

I don't think Jost is all that valuable right now and I definitely think the Avs would do Jost, Timmins and a 1st for Nylander. The question I have is whether the Leafs would do Nylander for Letang.

You may need to flip Jost to Toronto and have Toronto give up a lesser asset to the Penguins.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

I don't think Jost is all that valuable right now and I definitely think the Avs would do Jost, Timmins and a 1st for Nylander. The question I have is whether the Leafs would do Nylander for Letang.

You may need to flip Jost to Toronto and have Toronto give up a lesser asset to the Penguins.

I don’t know much about Timmins except for the fact that Avs fans are high on him. If he’s that good wonder if Toronto would just want him instead since he’s younger and cheaper.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think Jost is all that valuable right now and I definitely think the Avs would do Jost, Timmins and a 1st for Nylander. The question I have is whether the Leafs would do Nylander for Letang.

You may need to flip Jost to Toronto and have Toronto give up a lesser asset to the Penguins.

If the Leafs trade for Letang... Dubas needs to be fired on the spot. They don't need offense people. They need a stud who can skate well, clear the front of the net, and neutrize down low and along the walls. Another Muzzin type at RD is what they need.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Leafs trade for Letang... Dubas needs to be fired on the spot. They don't need offense people. They need a stud who can skate well, clear the front of the net, and neutrize down low and along the walls. Another Muzzin type at RD is what they need.

1. It sounds like your opinion of Letang is an inaccurate one. Letang isn't an "OFD", he's a 2-way puck mover who is an amazing skater
2. The Leafs scored 9 goals in 5 games against the Jackets, with getting shutout twice. The idea that they don't need more offense isn't based on the actual results.

This sounds like people saying "the Penguins need a better defense" after they lost in the playoffs, but they lost because they couldn't score.

 

[57special]

Timmins definitely has top 4 potential. The problem has been his concussion problems. I think that he has been better, and all the time off has to have done him good. Jost has not been impressive to my eyes, but he is still young. If CO is prepared to take on all that salary, I don't see how PIT can ask for more. The reality is that CO will want PIT to take on someone like Zadorov. I don't know his contract status.

TOR, unlike CO, can not take on Cap. It would either have to be Nylander( who the hell plays D?), or something like Robertson +Liljegren/Sandin + cap dump. PIT.

 

[SEALBound]

Yikes dude.. take out Makar before someone else sees that

And that hole situation is unrealistic. Even if a Makar-type player was available and could be had for Nylander, why would Toronto prefer the older Letang to him??

Jesus, I even put in:

Something "like" (don't get emotional about a name, it's a placeholder):

It's also as if people intentionally skip important parts of posts that help establish context.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Timmins definitely has top 4 potential. The problem has been his concussion problems. I think that he has been better, and all the time off has to have done him good. Jost has not been impressive to my eyes, but he is still young. If CO is prepared to take on all that salary, I don't see how PIT can ask for more. The reality is that CO will want PIT to take on someone like Zadorov. I don't know his contract status.

TOR, unlike CO, can not take on Cap. It would either have to be Nylander( who the hell plays D?), or something like Robertson +Liljegren/Sandin + cap dump. PIT.

That's why I suggested the 3-way deal, where the Avs get Nylander and that's what Toronto is paying for Letang.

I also think Robertson and Liljegren is way more than Timmins and a 1st in terms of value. I'd be completely fine with the Penguins bringing back Zadorov in place of Jost in that trade, and I imagine Zadorov probably works a little better for the Avs as well.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Jesus, I even put in:



It's also as if people intentionally skip important parts of posts that help establish context.

No I saw it. Was just way too ridiculous to not comment. Why even mention his name when there would have been many other players that fit the description better.

Just really poor judgement

 

[57special]

Both Zadorov and Jost are RFA's. I would imagine that CO would prefer to send Zadorov, and PIT be able to squeeze a late 1st out of CO.

Still think Jost is the play. How many big, dopey Dmen does PIT need?

 

[Avs44]

Jesus, I even put in:



It's also as if people intentionally skip important parts of posts that help establish context.

Too bad, I’m an Avs fan and I’m here to burn down your village now


As for the suggestion above involving Timmins, Jost, and a 1st...yes, comfortably. Unless the Avs are also going to be operating on a more conservative budget this upcoming year...which, if that’s what the Pens are doing, and given our owner (who I believe is currently slashing 50 some staff over at Arsenal....), might very well happen.

 

[Djp]

I think Toronto could probably do Nylander to someone else for futures and then do futures for Letang if they really wanted Letang.

Pronger isn’t a good e amp,e.

In today’s hard cap. Letang given his age is NOT a #1 Dman you mortgage a future around..

You retain 50% you can get more players and get a better future return.

 

[Cor]

For some reason, I don't think the Leafs will be interested in a primarily offensive d-man, with a sizable injury history, essentially in his mid-30's, and makes over 7M.


Letang is an interesting one. Do the Rangers maybe trade high on DeAngelo and bring in Letang, and run Letang-Trouba-Fox down the right side.

Winnipeg seems like a potential fit, but I'm not sure how they make the cap work.

Bit of a crazier one - If Boston can't reach a deal with Torey Krug, could Letang be the offensive replacement?

 

[moegillknee]

Pens could retain 50 % and the return will be underwhelming.letang s prior health issues and declining play make him very risky. Just clearing cap space should be the goal . I see Pitts holding on to him until his contract is up he can still play just not anywhere close to when they won their second cup.
Pens are done stick a fork in them. Save your picks don't retool rebuild this team is ripe

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Inside the Penguins’ collapse and the big changes still to come

This article from this morning says the Penguins are going to be a "budget" team for next year due to loss revenue during the pandemic, with plans at only falling in the low to mid 70s for the cap next year. If the Penguins feel this way, it likely means that a lot of other teams also feel this way, which would make dumping bad contracts like Bjugstad and Johnson extremely difficult. It also says that rivals expect the Penguins to explore trading Letang. So let's combine the two ideas. What teams do you think could be interested in Letang, and what futures based returns would they give?

For comparison, the only top pair D that have been traded for futures that I can find are Karlsson in 2018 and Pronger in 2009, and I definitely think Letang isn't on par with either of those. Those deals were:

Karlsson: DeMelo, Tierney, Balcers, Norris, a 1st, a 2nd and 2 conditional 1sts (one on re-signing, one on being traded to the East)
Pronger: Lupul, Sbisa and 2 1sts in 2009 and Lupul, Smid, a 1st, a 2nd and a conditional 1st in 2006 (condition on making the 2007 finals, yes Lupul was traded for Pronger twice from 2 different teams)

Letang also has a 12 team NTC, that should be worth mentioning as well. Based on those two deals, I think a young NHLer with a middle-6 or middle pair upside, a good prospect and a late 1st may be a reasonable base, but I'm not sure what teams could offer that.

I shudder to think of what our defense would look like without Letang. We'd essentially have one good pairing (Dumo/Marino).

 

[Paris in Flames]

Just spit balling here but I wonder if there's a younger "cheaper" team with a quality dman prospect that would be willing to do a blue chip ELC for Nylander and then that blue chip + to the Pens for Letang.

Something "like" (don't get emotional about a name, it's a placeholder):

Adam Fox, Cale Makar, or Brannstrom to Pit
Letang to Toronto
Nylander to the 3rd team

Why wouldnt Toronto just cut out useless middle man Pittsburgh? That's beyond stupid for Toronto.

Sorry but Letang to Toronto doesn't make sense.

He's in no way what the Leafs are looking for and we're certainly not taking him on just to allow Pittsburgh to be a random third team in a trade and make out like bandits.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pens could retain 50 % and the return will be underwhelming.letang s prior health issues and declining play make him very risky. Just clearing cap space should be the goal . I see Pitts holding on to him until his contract is up he can still play just not anywhere close to when they won their second cup.
Pens are done stick a fork in them. Save your picks don't retool rebuild this team is ripe

This is insanely dumb, I hope you're aware of that. There is nothing that suggests Letang's play is declining, and clearing cap space for a #1D that's underpaid is insanity.

Why wouldnt Toronto just cut out useless middle man Pittsburgh? That's beyond stupid for Toronto.

Sorry but Letang to Toronto doesn't make sense.

He's in no way what the Leafs are looking for and we're certainly not taking him on just to allow Pittsburgh to be a random third team in a trade and make out like bandits.

Yes, the Leafs obviously have no need for an elite ES defenseman who plays a position that's a massive hole for the Leafs. Obviously no need there.

I don't disagree with you on that specific trade, but acting like Letang somehow doesn't fill a need for the Leafs, when they haven't had a #1D on par with Letang for as long as I can remember, is crazy.

 

[Colt55]

Inside the Penguins’ collapse and the big changes still to come

This article from this morning says the Penguins are going to be a "budget" team for next year due to loss revenue during the pandemic, with plans at only falling in the low to mid 70s for the cap next year. If the Penguins feel this way, it likely means that a lot of other teams also feel this way, which would make dumping bad contracts like Bjugstad and Johnson extremely difficult. It also says that rivals expect the Penguins to explore trading Letang. So let's combine the two ideas. What teams do you think could be interested in Letang, and what futures based returns would they give?

For comparison, the only top pair D that have been traded for futures that I can find are Karlsson in 2018 and Pronger in 2009, and I definitely think Letang isn't on par with either of those. Those deals were:

Karlsson: DeMelo, Tierney, Balcers, Norris, a 1st, a 2nd and 2 conditional 1sts (one on re-signing, one on being traded to the East)
Pronger: Lupul, Sbisa and 2 1sts in 2009 and Lupul, Smid, a 1st, a 2nd and a conditional 1st in 2006 (condition on making the 2007 finals, yes Lupul was traded for Pronger twice from 2 different teams)

Letang also has a 12 team NTC, that should be worth mentioning as well. Based on those two deals, I think a young NHLer with a middle-6 or middle pair upside, a good prospect and a late 1st may be a reasonable base, but I'm not sure what teams could offer that.

Toronto- sandin, Johnson

Pit- Letang 50% retained