Confirmed with Link: Legwand to Wings for Eaves, Jarnkrok and a cond. 3rd (2nd if we make the playoffs)

[dtones520]

Give up one of our only (and better) C prospects + a 2nd for a first round exit?

When exactly was Jarnkrok going to see the ice, in a meaningful role, any time soon? And by any time soon I mean in the next 2-3 seasons. Datsyuk is signed for 2 more seasons at least, Zetterberg is here for 50 more, Sheahan will likely be our 2nd line center in that time frame, Helm is going to be here long term, Weiss is on a 5 year deal. Then you have Andersson and Glendening who have both earned their time in the NHL over Jarnkrok.

If Jarnkrok is this world beater prospect like a lot of you are making him out to be why was he behind Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton in terms of being called up to the NHL?

As for the first round exit, get in and anything can happen, as we saw last year when we almost knocked off the 1 and 2 seed in the West with a worse team, when healthy. If we make it and get Zetterberg back, we could give any team in the east a run for their money, especially Pittsburgh who has major questions in goal.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

He was never going to find equals to those players.

But what he ended up with is a pile of garbage, and that's 100% his fault

-Could have had Ehrhoff in 2011, for 4 mill a year and almost no assets.
-Could have had Matt Carle for 5.5 mill and no assets.
-Could have had some balls and actually traded Filpulla or Hudler for some assets and not just let both walk for nothing. Like NSH did with Legwand.

What he did is wait til the 11th hour (months before Lidstrom retired + Stuart left) and hit the panic button, and make a terrible trade giving away a 1st for Kyle Quincey.

He also chose to sign Ian White and Carlo Colaicovo who are no longer on the team.

So yes, he made a bunch of crappy choices, or did nothing, and ended up with a crappy defense. And we absolutely could be sitting here with a better defense today if he did a better job.

I don't understand that argument. Why would we do those things? Of course in hinsight possibly, but other than that, why?

Detroit was in the playoffs each season and their job was to compete, Stanley Cup hopes or not. Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. Nashville is quite out, and it looks like it will take multiple years for them to get back into the playoffs.

Jiri Hudler was a player that was playing at his best, and kind of the glue for a career year of Val Filppula and a thriving Henrik Zetterberg. I think the plan was to try and re-sign.

Val Filppula was playing injured for the most part, and of course, the plan was to re-sign him. Team still went ot seven games against the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

Ehrhoff deal was considered bad at the time, no?
That Matt Carle deal wasn't exactly the best deal in the world. That's #1 defenseman money up until this season where contracts are different.

Ian White was a solid signing, although he wasn't exactly great the second season. Product of Lidstrom? Sure. It worked though with being able to roll Niklas Kronwall on the second pairing.

All of your talks are hindsight moves which would have caused a ruckus at the time. IMO, Holland may the right decisions then. Today, I don't think so. Maybe we'll look back and think differently, but in those cases, I can't blame him at all.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

He was never going to find equals to those players.

But what he ended up with is a pile of garbage, and that's 100% his fault

-Could have had Ehrhoff in 2011, for 4 mill a year and almost no assets.
-Could have had Matt Carle for 5.5 mill and no assets.
-Could have had some balls and actually traded Filpulla or Hudler for some assets and not just let both walk for nothing. Like NSH did with Legwand.

What he did is wait til the 11th hour (months before Lidstrom retired + Stuart left) and hit the panic button, and make a terrible trade giving away a 1st for Kyle Quincey.

He also chose to sign Ian White and Carlo Colaicovo who are no longer on the team.

So yes, he made a bunch of crappy choices, or did nothing, and ended up with a crappy defense. And we absolutely could be sitting here with a better defense today if he did a better job.

Here's the dirty little secret: The defense isn't really a problem. It's still in the top five in the league limiting scoring events (6th in FA/60, 4th in CA/60). We're 10th in GA/60. We were a top three team in GA/60 last year as well. The issue really happens to be the fact that Brian Rafalski was a ridiculously amazing puck moving defenseman, and there hasn't been anyone worthy of unstrapping his sandals that have been available at any time. Ditto for Lidstrom. We seriously lack someone who generates scoring events at the back end. Of course, Brendan Smith could be one of those guys but Babcock thinks otherwise.

 

[icKx]

Oh jeeze, I'm the last person to defend Holland but we lost an overrated twig C prospect... Big wupp.

 

[Frk It]

Ehrhoff deal was considered bad at the time, no?

By some at the time, but not by me.

Now we are sitting here in the trade discussion thread taking about trading 1st round + prospect for the guy we could have had in free agency back then.

And I'm no rocket scientist.

 

[dtones520]

I don't think Legwand is the guy you do that for, though.

I'm all for giving up a prospect for an NHLer, even prospects for an NHLer, prospect for prospect (swap for needs), etc., etc. I just don't personally think Legwand is a guy you give Jarnkrok for in a perfect world. I'm over it now, though. Nothing to do or feel at this point. All we can do is watch.

And who do you give up a guy like Jarnkrok for? I really don't think you, and others, are understanding what most teams are asking for in trades at the deadline. I'm guessing we made the same offer to Vancouver for Kesler, is he worth Jarnkrok? If so Legwand has more points than Kesler this year.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

By some at the time, but not by me.

Now we are sitting here in the trade discussion thread taking about trading 1st round + prospect for the guy we could have had in free agency back then.

And I'm no rocket scientist.

That's fine. However, I'm still fine with us passing on that. His contract looks good now, but at the time, it was pretty sketchy. Times change though.

 

[Frk It]

I don't understand that argument. Why would we do those things? Of course in hinsight possibly, but other than that, why?

Detroit was in the playoffs each season and their job was to compete, Stanley Cup hopes or not. Once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. Nashville is quite out, and it looks like it will take multiple years for them to get back into the playoffs.

Jiri Hudler was a player that was playing at his best, and kind of the glue for a career year of Val Filppula and a thriving Henrik Zetterberg. I think the plan was to try and re-sign.

Val Filppula was playing injured for the most part, and of course, the plan was to re-sign him. Team still went ot seven games against the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

Because you can trade players of value, for other players of value, that help you in a different way.

Example: We were rumored to be in on a trade that involved Hudler + Kindl for Bogosian, when both Hudler and Kindl's value was high in Detroit.

And I am sure if Holland was creative + did trades not in panic mode, that he could have shopped those guys around to do a hockey trade that would help us out in the future. You know, more so than guys we let walk for nothing.

But I'm just going based on what I've seen other teams GM's do. Guess I'm not sure if those things are real or not

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

Oh jeeze, I'm the last person to defend Holland but we lost an overrated twig C prospect... Big wupp.

I guess it wasn't possible for a 23 year old kid to eventually put on muscle.

 

[PullHard]

When exactly was Jarnkrok going to see the ice, in a meaningful role, any time soon? And by any time soon I mean in the next 2-3 seasons. Datsyuk is signed for 2 more seasons at least, Zetterberg is here for 50 more, Sheahan will likely be our 2nd line center in that time frame, Helm is going to be here long term, Weiss is on a 5 year deal. Then you have Andersson and Glendening who have both earned their time in the NHL over Jarnkrok.

If Jarnkrok is this world beater prospect like a lot of you are making him out to be why was he behind Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton in terms of being called up to the NHL?

As for the first round exit, get in and anything can happen, as we saw last year when we almost knocked off the 1 and 2 seed in the West with a worse team, when healthy. If we make it and get Zetterberg back, we could give any team in the east a run for their money, especially Pittsburgh who has major questions in goal.

Because Jarnkrok is an option after that entire window you just presented closes. He was a guy that I pictured sharing the load with an aged Z and versatile Sheahan in ~4-5 years. Jarnkrok doesn't help us today, obviously. This is his first year in North America. Why would he be ahead of anyone? Why would he need to be? We have a ton of Cs in the NHL as it is.

Why are those other guys ahead of him? Because they have small ice + pro hockey experience. Jarnkrok would accomplish nothing in a 3rd or 4th line role in the NHL today. He needs more time to acclimate to NHL sized ice.

What does Legwand get us? A 7th or 8th seed appearance and maybe one series win? Which lowers our 1st round draft status and costs a 2nd instead of a 3rd. And then slows down Sheahan's NHL development when we re-sign him this summer.

I like Legwand, but this deal doesn't make much sense. The only thing I can see it doing is getting us a playoff appearance this season, which to me (as a fan) means nothing. I'd rather shut Z and D down and get a higher pick this summer and try again next year with a rested team, rather than slap together a half-assed run and wear our star players out even further.

 

[crashman]

The one thing I like about the trade is that Eaves will (hopefully) get a chance to play in Nashville.

I'm not very optimistic about the team at all right now, so instead of going full Pejorative Slur and pointlessly complaining about everything, I'd just like to voice my general displeasure with the Red Wings franchise as it stands.

I don't think we should mention Jarnkrok's name on these boards ever again, for the collective sanity of everyone here.

 

[Anchor Town*]

I guess it wasn't possible for a 23 year old kid to eventually put on muscle.

Especially considering he has never had an NHL training regimen

 

[Frk It]

That's fine. However, I'm still fine with us passing on that. His contract looks good now, but at the time, it was pretty sketchy. Times change though.

Again, it wasn't that hard to see back then that it was not that scary of a deal.

Franzen's long contract is nbd because the cap is going up, but Ehrhoff's would be a crippler. Give me a break.

 

[PullHard]

And who do you give up a guy like Jarnkrok for? I really don't think you, and others, are understanding what most teams are asking for in trades at the deadline. I'm guessing we made the same offer to Vancouver for Kesler, is he worth Jarnkrok? If so Legwand has more points than Kesler this year.

At least a legit 2C. And if we are getting a guy more like Legwand, ideally he isn't impending UFA and is actually signed up to a really cap friendly contract. Instead we are probably gonna pay him ~$4.5M to block Sheahan for half a decade.

 

[PullHard]

It's like Holland can't "tank" or can't go for it. He keeps doing these lukewarm moves to keep us competitive enough to be a bubble team, but nothing more and nothing less. It is great to have prospects, but when you're spending them on over the hill guys and then blocking the youngsters (that is also on Babs, and it is getting better, but if Holland doesn't supply said over the hill blocking guys, we have no issue) with the same aged players, it accomplishes nothing. You can squeeze out every ounce of use these guys have like Babcock does and still have nothing to show for it at the end of the season.

 

[jaster]

“He’s certainly one of our most talented, if not the most talented prospect,†Fischer said.

“Not to take anything away from others like Anthony Mantha."

How else can you interpret that?

I interpret that as exactly what he said. Talent is but one aspect of a player's value. Calling a player "the best," however, is encompassing all factors. Roughly put:

1. The best
2. One of the best / The most talented
3. One of the most talented

Fischer said he is #3 on the list. Maybe #2. Didn't even touch #1.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Maybe Jarnkrok just isn't as good or NHL ready as people here think he is? HFboards is notorious for overrating their prospects

To be fair I don't know a lot about Jarnkrok nor have I seen him play, but people on this board and all over this site have been known for overhyping their own team's prospects above established NHL players

All of this. We wouldn't have moved Jarnkrok if we were actually going to use him.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

All of this. We wouldn't have moved Jarnkrok if we were actually going to use him.

Jiri Fischer seems to agree with our assessment with him.

 

[dtones520]

At least a legit 2C. And if we are getting a guy more like Legwand, ideally he isn't impending UFA and is actually signed up to a really cap friendly contract. Instead we are probably gonna pay him ~$4.5M to block Sheahan for half a decade.

How is Legwand not a legit 2c? He is on pace for 55 points this season on a team who is 26th in scoring. Yes, he is an impending free agent, but there is a good possibility Detroit traded for him on the understanding he is likely going to sign here. What that means with Stephen Weiss, I have no clue.

Anyway, this deal never happens if Helm and Datsyuk didn't get injured last night and if Weiss wasn't taking his sweet ass time coming back. Anyone who is expecting this organization to not try and keep the playoff streak alive at all costs needs a serious reality check, and it is an important thing for a lot of people who pay to go to games.

Play armchair GM all you want, the simple fact is that over the past 5 seasons we have traded, what, one prospect at the deadline? We have also not given out too many bad, long term contracts and the one that we did (Weiss) was heralded as a good signing by most at the time. So, here we sit with all but one of our top prospects from the last half decade and at the very, very minimum $10 million in cap space going into next year and if we were healthy would have one of the 4 best teams in the east and we are complaining about the job our GM is doing because he traded one guy who was not going to even sniff the NHL for, probably, 2 seasons. Not to mention that in terms of prospects, Jarnkrok isn't exactly a blue chipper. I'm sorry, but these boards need to get a grip.

 

[dtones520]

Jiri Fischer seems to agree with our assessment with him.

Cool, he made one quote about what he thought about a prospect. What does Jiri Fischer have to say today about Calle Jarnkrok?

 

[PullHard]

How is Legwand not a legit 2c? He is on pace for 55 points this season on a team who is 26th in scoring. Yes, he is an impending free agent, but there is a good possibility Detroit traded for him on the understanding he is likely going to sign here. What that means with Stephen Weiss, I have no clue.

Anyway, this deal never happens if Helm and Datsyuk didn't get injured last night and if Weiss wasn't taking his sweet ass time coming back. Anyone who is expecting this organization to not try and keep the playoff streak alive at all costs needs a serious reality check, and it is an important thing for a lot of people who pay to go to games.

Play armchair GM all you want, the simple fact is that over the past 5 seasons we have traded, what, one prospect at the deadline? We have also not given out too many bad, long term contracts and the one that we did (Weiss) was heralded as a good signing by most at the time. So, here we sit with all but one of our top prospects from the last half decade and at the very, very minimum $10 million in cap space going into next year and if we were healthy would have one of the 4 best teams in the east and we are complaining about the job our GM is doing because he traded one guy who was not going to even sniff the NHL for, probably, 2 seasons. Not to mention that in terms of prospects, Jarnkrok isn't exactly a blue chipper. I'm sorry, but these boards need to get a grip.

I am over it at this point. It isn't a huge loss to the point that our team is in a ton of trouble because of it. The context/ timing of the trade makes little sense and accomplishes basically nothing for us. I can't argue about it anymore because it is really dampening my spirit about the team. I am unimpressed with the management group of late, I'll leave it at that.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Holland apologists in full swing I see.

I guess all the other GMs in the league must be geniuses, since nobody paid nearly as much as we did for Legwand. Vanek for less, Moulson for less, etc.

But lets just pretend like this wasn't a stupid deal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I am over it at this point. It isn't a huge loss to the point that our team is in a ton of trouble because of it. The context/ timing of the trade makes little sense and accomplishes basically nothing for us. I can't argue about it anymore because it is really dampening my spirit about the team. I am unimpressed with the management group of late, I'll leave it at that.

I don't know how you can say that. Without this trade, we'd be looking at Andersson-Glendening-Sheahan-Emmerton/Jarnkrok down the middle for a minimum of 3 games, maybe much longer.

Accomplishes nothing? We have a legitimate NHL center now.

 

[dtones520]

Holland apologists in full swing I see.

I guess all the other GMs in the league must be geniuses, since nobody paid nearly as much as we did for Legwand. Vanek for less, Moulson for less, etc.

But lets just pretend like this wasn't a stupid deal.

Moulson and Vanek are left wings. Last I checked 2nd line centers were more valuable than 2nd line left wings...

 

[PullHard]

I don't know how you can say that. Without this trade, we'd be looking at Andersson-Glendening-Sheahan-Emmerton/Jarnkrok down the middle for a minimum of 3 games, maybe much longer.

Accomplishes nothing? We have a legitimate NHL center now.

Wicked, so we will have a chance in a couple more games. So we can claw our way into a 1st round meeting vs Boston or Pittsburgh and have our lunch handed to us. Lose a 2nd instead of a 3rd and have to draft further away from 1st overall. Nice.

But that playoff streak is sure looking good!