League rankings right now

[Vikz]

1. NHL. no comment.
2. SHL. Best tallent producer in Europe. Slight edge over KHL because of stability, strong second-tier league and competent management.
3. KHL. Definitely lost positions after the war, boycot of (some) Europeans, financial sanctions etc. However, if the iron curtain persists, it will actually strengthen the league, if the best tallents wont be able to leave - see Fedotov's case.
4. NLA. Everyone wants to live and earn money in Switzerand. Great views, great pay, road games are like an hour drive from home. High quality imports compensate the overall smaller level of swiss players.
5. AHL. Cant ignore the second tier of the by far the best league in the world. Canadians and the US easily produce enough hockey players for two high quality leagues. Smaller sallaries discourage European players, but the opportunity to make it in the NHL outweights it.
6. Liiga. Finns built, probably, the best youth hockey system in Europe in terms of producing tallent per capita. Relatively low sallaries do not allow to attract as much tallent as some other leagues. Im actually surprised that a rich country with hockey as their N.1 sport is not able to pay their hockey players well. Probably the size of the market there is to blame.
7. Extraliga. Same as Liiga. The tallent is there, the salaries are not. Overall quality of czechs is a little worse than finns, though.
8. DEL. Poor mans NLA. The pay is good, the living quality is good. The local players who make up the majority are average.
9. Allsvenskan. Second best second tier league in the world. Good pay, good life, good amount of tallent.
10. Slovakian extraliga. Czechs younger brother. Slightly worse at everything.
11-. Mestis, SL, ECHL, ICEHL, VHL, Kazakhstan, Danish and Norway leagues. In no particular order. Cant bother to rank them.

NCAA, CHL and USHL could probably be somewhere in the 8-15 range, but junior and student leagues should not be ranked with pro leagues due to obvious age restrictions. Top NCAA teams may easily compete with average EU pro league team though.

 

[Albatros]

NCAA, CHL and USHL could probably be somewhere in the 8-15 range, but junior and student leagues should not be ranked with pro leagues due to obvious age restrictions. Top NCAA teams may easily compete with average EU pro league team though.

Naw. I agree that they shouldn't really be compared, but if we do that then they simply can't compete against seasoned pros. Like at all.

The current NCAA champions Quinnipiac are on average 22 years old and they had three NHL-drafted prospects in Sam Lipkin (ARI 2021 #223), Skyler Brind'Amour (EDM 2017 #177), and Chase Clark (WSH 2021 #183). Their starter Yaniv Perets (age 23) went undrafted but now signed with Carolina after very good performances in college hockey. These are relatively fringe prospects that can probably have decent pro careers, but are unlikely to become anything much more than average import players in these European leagues. A few others could still manage the same, while the rest will quit hockey upon graduation or continue playing at a lower level, something like DEL2 or EIHL if in Europe.

Of course there are also NCAA teams with very young blue chip prospects like Michigan with Fantilli and Hughes that will surely have good NHL careers, and as we saw with Auston Matthews in Switzerland, individually the best of them could already be impact players anywhere in Europe as well. But despite better prospects the overall quality of these younger rosters right here and now is no better, they were comfortably eliminated by Quinnipiac led by the undrafted 21-year-old Jacob Quillan for a reason.

 

[roflstomper]

Clear cut top 3 of NHL/KHL/AHL. All the other Euro leagues can duke it out after that.

 

[Speyer]

Clear cut top 3 of NHL/KHL/AHL. All the other Euro leagues can duke it out after that.

The AHL is terribly overrated by the us/canada centric fanbase on this board. There is just no way the league is better than the SHL, and I am not sure that it's better than the NLA either.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Clear cut top 3 of NHL/KHL/AHL. All the other Euro leagues can duke it out after that.

AHL is for sure worse than NLA, Liiga and DEL.

 

[WayTooCold]

Liiga has no relegation. Full of crap teams like Kookoo, Jukurit, Jyp etc sucking ass year after year without a fear getting booted to Mestis. Once it's opened then the sporting level will rise. There's like 5 good teams the rest are just fillers.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Leagues by budgets for players salaries

KHL $7 million (minimum per club) to $17+ million (maximum per clubs)
NL a few clubs around $8-10 million, others below
SHL top team with $5,5 million, others below + big taxes
Liiga, DEL, CZ below SHL

This is the right way to look at it. The best players go where the most money is

 

[Vikz]

This is the right way to look at it. The best players go where the most money is

Or where taxes are lower.
Or where living conditions are better.
Or where they fit into the import limits.
Or where they dont need to wory about the volatility of local currency and team bankrupsy.
Or where they have friends or good references.

There are a lot of variables in choosing leagues, you know.

 

[Albatros]

This is the right way to look at it. The best players go where the most money is

I reckon significantly less separates the KHL champions and the Swedish second-tier HockeyAllsvenskan runners-up on the ice than mere money would suggest.

CSKA (KHL):

Anton Slepyshev - Pavel Karnaukhov - Andrei Svetlakov
Konstantin Okulov - Vladislav Kamenev - Maxim Mamin
Prokhor Poltapov - Mikhail Grigorenko - Maxim Sorkin
Sergei Plotnikov - Takhir Mingachyov - Semyon Pankratov

Fredrik Claesson - Nikita Nesterov
Darren Dietz - Yaroslav Dyblenko
Vladislav Provolnev - Artyom Sergeyev
Nikolai Makarov - Vitaly Abramov

Adam Reideborn
Alexander Sharychenkov


DIF (HockeyAllsvenskan):

Liam Öhgren - Marcus Krüger - Wiktor Nilsson
Linus Klasen - Lukas Vejdemo - Jonathan Lekkerimäki
John Norman - Emil Berglund - Daniel Brodin
Fredrik Forsberg - Noah Östlund - David Blomgren

Cameron Schilling - Stefan Elliott
Linus Arnesson - Nicklas Danielsson
Kevin Karlsson - Edvin Hammarlund
Calle Odelius - Ludvig Rensfeldt

Carl Lindbom
Matthew Galada

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Or where taxes are lower.
Or where living conditions are better.
Or where they fit into the import limits.
Or where they dont need to wory about the volatility of local currency and team bankrupsy.
Or where they have friends or good references.

There are a lot of variables in choosing leagues, you know.

Sure, but we both know what the most imprtant one is

 

[Hanji]

Or where taxes are lower.
Or where living conditions are better.
Or where they fit into the import limits.
Or where they dont need to wory about the volatility of local currency and team bankrupsy.
Or where they have friends or good references.

There are a lot of variables in choosing leagues, you know.

Sure, but we both know what the most imprtant one is

The largest variable these days are Federations who punish their citizens for signing in the KHL.
But in unregulated normal circumstances, money is typically #1.



The break-down per league of collective 2022 olympic participants of 'top 6' countries (CAN, CZE, FIN, RUS, SWE, USA). The figures basically mirror the average salary per league ranking:
KHL- 75
NL - 20
SHL - 15
Czechia - 5
Liiga - 4
DEL - 4

 

[Albatros]

The break-down per league of collective 2022 olympic participants of 'top 6' countries (CAN, CZE, FIN, RUS, SWE, USA). It's almost a mirror reflection of average salary per league:
KHL- 75
NL - 20
SHL - 15
Czechia - 5
Liiga - 4
DEL - 4

You forgot to include the NCAA with 19 players. All of whom played for these alleged "top 6" countries and none of whom made the quarterfinals.

Meanwhile Jokerit alone had 10 players in that tournament yet now play in Mestis. Switzerland had an all-NL roster and eliminated the largely KHL-based Czechs. Slovakia won the bronze medals with most players based in Slovakia or Czechia. Previously Germany had taken the silver medals with an all-DEL roster.

 

[Hanji]

You forgot to include the NCAA with 19 players. All of whom played for these alleged "top 6" countries and none of whom made the quarterfinals.

Meanwhile Jokerit alone had 10 players in that tournament yet now play in Mestis. Switzerland had an all-NL roster and eliminated the largely KHL-based Czechs. Slovakia won the bronze medals with most players based in Slovakia or Czechia. Previously Germany had taken the silver medals with an all-DEL roster.

All you're proving is that anybody can win a short tournament. Thanks for the insight.

The fact remains that the top federations (especially the top Euro teams) chose the best players at their disposal and that talent directly mirrored league's pay scales. This should come as no suprise.
Talent = $$

 

[Vikz]

The break-down per league of collective 2022 olympic participants of 'top 6' countries (CAN, CZE, FIN, RUS, SWE, USA). The figures basically mirror the average salary per league ranking:
KHL- 75
NL - 20
SHL - 15
Czechia - 5
Liiga - 4
DEL - 4

You included both Russians and Finnish Jokkerit players in the KHL number, which is unfair to NL, which is represented only by imports, since you left the Swiss out.

Removing the domestic players, the amount of players per league is:
KHL - 43 (I counted in the Finns who do not play at home, but in Russian clubs);
NL - 20;
SHL - 7;
DEL - 4;
Liiga - 2;
Czechia - 0.

Still a KHL victory by a huge margin, but not 4x like in your calculation. Plus, this was before the war. The situation is vastly different now,

 

[ItWasJustified]

This is the right way to look at it. The best players go where the most money is

Except that most European hockey federations have banned players playing in the KHL from their national teams and the NLA still have an import limit.

 

[Hanji]

You included both Russians and Finnish Jokkerit players in the KHL number, which is unfair to NL, which is represented only by imports, since you left the Swiss out.

Removing the domestic players, the amount of players per league is:
KHL - 43 (I counted in the Finns who do not play at home, but in Russian clubs);
NL - 20;
SHL - 7;
DEL - 4;
Liiga - 2;
Czechia - 0.

Still a KHL victory by a huge margin, but not 4x like in your calculation. Plus, this was before the war. The situation is vastly different now,

Your calculations still mirror the league budgets privided by vorky. #1 KHL, #2 NL, #3 SHL, followed by the others.

Sure the situation may be different now, but we're in irregular times. A war is occuring and European Hockey Federations are authoritatively attempting to dictate where their players make a living; which is ironically quite Soviet-like,
In normal circumstances -> level of play = level of pay.

 

[vorky]

Your calculations still mirror the league budgets privided by vorky. #1 KHL, #2 NL, #3 SHL, followed by the others.

Sure the situation may be different now, but we're in irregular times. A war is occuring and European Hockey Federations are authoritatively attempting to dictate where their players make a living; which is ironically quite Soviet-like,
In normal circumstances -> level of play = level of pay.

Good summary.

You are right with irregular times happening now. It is important to understand what is going to happen long-term. It is evident that European golden times are over, I mean economy & society. Of course that change will influence the game of hockey as well. Especially Swedes, Finns, Czechs & Germans will be hit.

 

[Vikz]

In normal circumstances -> level of play = level of pay.

Except there were never normal circumstances in the KHL, since it is a political project funded by the government with bloated salaries. It attracted good imports, but the local players are spread too thin throughout the 23 teams. VHL is roughly on the level of Kazakhstan league, since there is a KHL roster spot for almost anyone who can at least stand on skates. In this case, level of pay > level of play.

Swedes, who are the same level national team as the russians, have 14 teams in the SHL. And these 14 teams produce more NHL talent, evident by both the amount of draftees and active NHL players. Salaries there are dictated by the market, not the government, and it cant attract imports of the same quality. But higher level of local players and about 1.7 times less roster spots make it a better league.

KHL is not the second league in the world anymore, nor will it be in the near future due to the fact that both the war and hockey are funded from the same wallet.

 

[Albatros]

European Hockey Federations are authoritatively attempting to dictate where their players make a living

That is completely incorrect. Claesson, Pulkkinen, Macek & co. are as free to play in the KHL as ever. They will only not be a part of national team selections but that is a privilege rather than a right. A privilege that has not interested them much in the past either.

 

[Garl]

This is the right way to look at it. The best players go where the most money is

This is not the right way to look at it, because KHL has
a)Import limit of 3 foreign players per team
b)been abandoned by almost all euros
c)pays in rubles and it is not a stable currency, for reference, since the beginning of 2023 ruble has decreases in value by 45%

 

[Hanji]

That is completely incorrect. Claesson, Pulkkinen, Macek & co. are as free to play in the KHL as ever. They will only not be a part of national team selections but that is a privilege rather than a right. A privilege that has not interested them much in the past either.

Don’t play stupid. Those federations are attempting to influence where their players choose to make a living. The national team is the mechanism of soft-power to achieve this

Or in Lavtia’s case, directly interfering.
Latvian Ice Hockey Federation challenges Kalniņš joining Russian club

For all the Russia hate, European federations are out Russia-ing Russia as it pertains to using the national team as a tool to exert influence over a player’s right to make a living where he chooses.

 

[vorky]

Don’t play stupid. Those federations are attempting to influence where their players choose to make a living. The national team is the mechanism of soft-power to achieve this

Or in Lavtia’s case, directly interfering.
Latvian Ice Hockey Federation challenges Kalniņš joining Russian club

For all the Russia hate, European federations are out Russia-ing Russia as it pertains to using the national team as a tool to exert influence over a player’s right to make a living where he chooses.

Exactly.

And the embassies of European countries are calling out the players and their agents, i.e. threatening them directly. And of course journalists and prominent hockey officials (Szemberg) promoting their selfish interests.

 

[Albatros]

Don’t play stupid. Those federations are attempting to influence where their players choose to make a living. The national team is the mechanism of soft-power to achieve this

Or in Lavtia’s case, directly interfering.
Latvian Ice Hockey Federation challenges Kalniņš joining Russian club

For all the Russia hate, European federations are out Russia-ing Russia as it pertains to using the national team as a tool to exert influence over a player’s right to make a living where he chooses.

Playing for the national team is a special privilege, there's nothing problematic about restricting the selection based on character and/or the league the player plays in. That's always been the case one way or another. Even players without a moral compass know that if they choose to play for the enemy then that will count against them when it comes to such privileges back home. Some value money more than anything and don't care, that's then a win-win and good riddance. This kind of characters were never needed to start with.

 

[Hanji]

Exactly.

And the embassies of European countries are calling out the players and their agents, i.e. threatening them directly. And of course journalists and prominent hockey officials (Szemberg) promoting their selfish interests.

Playing for the national team is a special privilege, there's nothing problematic about restricting the selection based on character and/or the league the player plays in. That's always been the case one way or another. Even players without a moral compass know that if they choose to play for the enemy then that will count against them when it comes to such privileges back home. Some value money more than anything and don't care, that's then a win-win and good riddance. This kind of characters were never needed to start with.

Vorky is 100% correct. Restrictiveness, threats and coersion should not be tolerated in our sport. THe National Team should not be used as a means of coersion.

And enough already about moral compasses. These are the same Federations who had no issues attending last year's Olympics despite China's crimes against humanity. Nor did they bannish NHLers from national teams during Iraq; even when NHL teams held grotesque 'military support nights' at the time. Then again only 3rd world dark people were being slaughtered, right?
Albatros, now what were you saying about valuing money more than anything?

If the National Team is a special privilege, at least hold all players to the same standard. However none of these Federations do this because they're full of hypocrisy, racism and don't actually care about ethics.

 

[Albatros]

Vorky is 100% correct. Restrictiveness, threats and coersion should not be tolerated in our sport. THe National Team should not be used as a means of coersion.

And enough already about moral compasses. These are the same Federations who had no issues attending last year's Olympics despite China's crimes against humanity/genocide. Nor did they bannish NHLers from national teams during Iraq; even when NHL teams held grotesque 'military support nights' at the time. Then again it was only 3rd world dark people being slaughtered, right?
Albatros, now what were you saying about valuing money more than anything?

If the National Team is a special privilege, at least hold all players to the same standard. However none of these Federations do as such because they're full of hypocrisy, racism and don't actually care about ethics.

Like it or not, China and the United States are equal members of the IIHF. Of course in the future it could occur that for example China is excluded for similar reasons as Russia is now, but we're not there yet. I do agree that Russia probably got favorable treatment for too long before any meaningful action was taken. But now they are not a part of international hockey anymore and neither are players that play in their competitions.