Post-Game Talk: Leafs Win 4-1 | "Corsi Enthusiasts Hate Them!"

[Razz]

Here's some food for thought for people fixated on shots on goal.

In 2009-10, the Leafs ranked 3rd in the NHL for CORSI (+422). We averaged 34.6 shots per GP. Only 4 teams had more shots and they finished 3rd, 7th, 1st and 8th respectively in league standings.

Anyone want to hazard a guess where Toronto finished in league standings? 29th overall.

Seems we've been defying CORSI for a lot longer than people think. Well that or there are certain things that are far more relevant to the outcome.

Yup, Corsi is crap because it doesn't factor in skill. Maybe it takes into account effort as it's very true that when you are behind in a game, you take more lower percentage shots.

Look at Kadri's goal the other night. You can have an average NHL player stand there for an hour throwing pucks at that spot and maybe only a few times get it in.

Skill matters. End of story.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Here's some food for thought for people fixated on shots on goal.

In 2009-10, the Leafs ranked 3rd in the NHL for CORSI (+422). We averaged 34.6 shots per GP. Only 4 teams had more shots and they finished 3rd, 7th, 1st and 8th respectively in league standings.

Anyone want to hazard a guess where Toronto finished in league standings? 29th overall.

Seems we've been defying CORSI for a lot longer than people think. Well that or there are certain things that are far more relevant to the outcome.

 

[Center Ice Scrum*]

Watching the highlights of the game. I just realized that on that 1st Raymond PP goal, we had Rielly and Gards both manning the point. Hope to see it happen more often.

 

[ULF_55]

Look at Kadri's goal the other night. You can have an average NHL player stand there for an hour throwing pucks at that spot and maybe only a few times get it in.

Skill matters. End of story.

Well, unless it is Sarich and Bernier is in net.

 

[ULF_55]

Watching the highlights of the game. I just realized that on that 1st Raymond PP goal, we had Rielly and Gards both manning the point. Hope to see it happen more often.

Grooming the boys to be the 2nd. pairing.

Oh, wait, maybe the 1st. pairing.

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Rielly-Gardiner
McWilliams-Fraser

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
McWilliams-Percy

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Phaneuf-Percy
Finn-Granberg

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Finn-Percy
Phaneuf-Granberg

 

[4evaBlue]

How many rebound shots did Bernier produce in Nashville?

And just to answer this question specifically.

vs ("GOALIE STOPPED" event appears 24x, ie: 66.6% of total shots)

Event #​

|

Period​

|

Strength​

|

Time elapsed​

|

Time remaining​

|

Event​

|

Description​

114|2|PP|1:32|18:28|FAC|NSH won Off. Zone - TOR #42 BOZAK vs NSH #12 FISHER
115|2|PP|1:52|18:08| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #4 ELLIS, Slap, Off. Zone, 45 ft.
116|2|SH|2:03|17:57|HIT|TOR #4 FRANSON HIT NSH #12 FISHER, Def. Zone
117|2|PP|2:13|17:47| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #33 WILSON, Slap, Off. Zone, 36 ft.
118|2|PP|2:18|17:42| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #12 FISHER, Wrist, Off. Zone, 9 ft.
119|2|SH|2:36|17:24|BLOCK|NSH #33 WILSON BLOCKED BY TOR #4 FRANSON, Wrist, Def. Zone
120|2|SH|2:40|17:20|BLOCK|NSH #15 SMITH BLOCKED BY TOR #4 FRANSON, Wrist, Def. Zone
121|2|PP|2:43|17:17|BLOCK|TOR #11 MCCLEMENT BLOCKED BY NSH #4 ELLIS, Wrist, Def. Zone
122|2|PP|3:12|16:48|TAKE|NSH TAKEAWAY - #27 HORNQVIST, Off. Zone
123|2|PP|3:20|16:40| MISS |NSH #6 WEBER, Slap, Wide of Net, Off. Zone, 49 ft.
124|2|PP|3:27|16:33| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #6 WEBER, Slap, Off. Zone, 42 ft.
125|2|EV|3:35|16:25| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #6 WEBER, Slap, Off. Zone, 38 ft.
126|2||3:36|16:24|STOP|GOALIE STOPPED
|||||||
299|3|SH|18:12|1:48|FAC|NSH won Def. Zone - TOR #63 BOLLAND vs NSH #11 LEGWAND
300|3|EV|18:20|1:40|BLOCK|TOR #36 GUNNARSSON BLOCKED BY NSH #3 JONES, Snap, Def. Zone
301|3|EV|18:46|1:14|HIT|NSH #64 BARTLEY HIT TOR #32 LEIVO, Def. Zone
302|3|EV|18:56|1:04| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #9 FORSBERG, Wrist, Off. Zone, 33 ft.
303|3|EV|19:03|0:57| SHOT |NSH ONGOAL - #9 FORSBERG, Wrist, Off. Zone, 34 ft.
304|3||19:04|0:56|STOP|GOALIE STOPPED

Courtesy of NHL.com.


vs ("GOALIE STOPPED" event appears 11x, ie: 29.7% of the shots faced):

Event #​

|

Period​

|

Strength​

|

Time elapsed​

|

Time remaining​

|

Event​

|

Description​

10|1|SH|1:47|18:13|FAC|TOR won Def. Zone - MIN #9 KOIVU vs TOR #42 BOZAK
11|1|PP|2:14|17:46| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #20 SUTER, Wrist, Off. Zone, 57 ft.
12|1|PP|2:27|17:33| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #11 PARISE, Tip-In, Off. Zone, 26 ft.
13|1|PP|2:47|17:13| MISS |MIN #9 KOIVU, Slap, Wide of Net, Off. Zone, 47 ft.
14|1|PP|2:52|17:08| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #11 PARISE, Tip-In, Off. Zone, 20 ft.
15|1|PP|2:55|17:05| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #46 SPURGEON, Snap, Off. Zone, 15 ft.
16|1||2:57|17:03|STOP|GOALIE STOPPED
|||||||
83|1|PP|15:10|4:50|FAC|MIN won Def. Zone - MIN #64 GRANLUND vs TOR #63 BOLLAND
84|1|SH|15:23|4:37|BLOCK|MIN #14 FONTAINE BLOCKED BY TOR #63 BOLLAND, Slap, Def. Zone
85|1|SH|15:27|4:33|GIVE|TOR GIVEAWAY - #63 BOLLAND, Def. Zone
86|1|PP|15:37|4:23| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #15 HEATLEY, Snap, Off. Zone, 41 ft.
87|1|SH|15:43|4:17|GIVE|TOR GIVEAWAY - #51 GARDINER, Def. Zone
88|1|PP|16:25|3:35| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #46 SPURGEON, Slap, Off. Zone, 50 ft.
89|1|EV|16:41|3:19| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #17 MITCHELL, Wrist, Off. Zone, 50 ft.
90|1|EV|16:58|3:02|HIT|TOR #81 KESSEL HIT MIN #20 SUTER, Off. Zone
91|1|EV|17:07|2:53| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #17 MITCHELL, Wrist, Neu. Zone, 75 ft.
92|1|EV|17:10|2:50|PENL|TOR #12 RAYMOND Hi-sticking(2 min) Drawn By: MIN #46 SPURGEON
|||||||
251|3|SH|6:20|13:40|BLOCK|TOR #51 GARDINER BLOCKED BY MIN #46 SPURGEON, Wrist, Def. Zone
252|3|SH|6:26|13:34|TAKE|MIN TAKEAWAY - #17 MITCHELL, Def. Zone
253|3|PP|6:49|13:11|TAKE|TOR TAKEAWAY - #44 RIELLY, Def. Zone
254|3|PP|6:57|13:03|GIVE|TOR GIVEAWAY - #42 BOZAK, Off. Zone
255|3|EV|7:24|12:36|BLOCK|TOR #15 RANGER BLOCKED BY MIN #11 PARISE, Wrist, Def. Zone
256|3|EV|7:37|12:23| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #22 NIEDERREITER, Wrist, Off. Zone, 50 ft.
257|3|EV|7:43|12:17| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #9 KOIVU, Wrist, Off. Zone, 43 ft.
258|3|EV|7:55|12:05| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #22 NIEDERREITER, Wrist, Off. Zone, 44 ft.
259|3||7:56|12:04|STOP|GOALIE STOPPED,TV TIMEOUT
|||||||
299|3|EV|16:27|3:33| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #9 KOIVU, Wrist, Off. Zone, 24 ft.
300|3|EV|16:29|3:31| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #29 POMINVILLE, Snap, Off. Zone, 10 ft.
301|3|EV|16:37|3:23| SHOT |MIN ONGOAL - #46 SPURGEON, Wrist, Off. Zone, 28 ft.
302|3|EV|17:09|2:51|TAKE|TOR TAKEAWAY - #4 FRANSON, Def. Zone
303|3|EV|17:17|2:43|GIVE|MIN GIVEAWAY - #4 STONER, Def. Zone
304|3|EV|17:53|2:07|BLOCK|MIN #15 HEATLEY BLOCKED BY TOR #51 GARDINER, Wrist, Def. Zone
305|3|EV|18:19|1:41|GIVE|TOR GIVEAWAY - #32 LEIVO, Def. Zone
306|3|EV|18:28|1:32|TAKE|TOR TAKEAWAY - #11 MCCLEMENT, Def. Zone
307|3|EV|18:32|1:28|BLOCK|TOR #11 MCCLEMENT BLOCKED BY MIN #25 BRODIN, Wrist, Def. Zone
308|3|EV|18:42|1:18| MISS |MIN #21 BRODZIAK, Wrist, Wide of Net, Off. Zone, 34 ft.
309|3|EV|19:01|0:59|GOAL|TOR #12 RAYMOND(4), Snap, Off. Zone, 15 ft.

Courtesy of NHL.com.

 

[Remuskokafication]

I'm all for the "stats are for nerds" mantra, because it's fun, but I do think alot of the reason for the negativity is just because they're the Leafs.

Like if the hawks or boston had weak corsi but were winning nobody would say anything.

Even though we're out performing more traditional expectations, like last years results or our player's historical stats that shouldn't matter. As evidenced by colorado, if most teams outplay their expectations they get praised.

With the leafs it's just people who either hate them or fans who fear the curse.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Grooming the boys to be the 2nd. pairing.

Oh, wait, maybe the 1st. pairing.

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Rielly-Gardiner
McWilliams-Fraser

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
McWilliams-Percy

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Phaneuf-Percy
Finn-Granberg

then

Rielly-Gardiner
Finn-Percy
Phaneuf-Granberg

What the..

 

[Mystifo]

Listen I am not one to put 100% of my faith in advanced stats but to disregard them as some people do is a bit asinine. Together with them and watching them play you can put together a good understanding of a team who preforms well and a team who preforms poorly. Lets not kid ourselves here if it were not for us getting the type of goaltending we have been we would have a pretty poor start. The fact we are....


a) Getting great goaltending.

b) Have players who can capitalize on a limited amount of chances.


really help us lessen the importance of our poor possession numbers. What should be interesting is when we face a team like the LA Kings who are known to be a really corsi heavy team.

 

[BigWilly]

Well, unless it is Sarich and Bernier is in net.

Bernier was cheating because there was a clear cross crease pass for Sarich, at this point Sarich took an NHLer's shot.

Kadri was at an angle that he was less likely to score at, and the goalie wasn't cheating, he just got flat out beat.

I'm not sure why you keep condescending Kadri using this goal comparison, they really aren't similar.

 

[4evaBlue]

Bernier was cheating because there was a clear cross crease pass for Sarich, at this point Sarich took an NHLer's shot.

Kadri was at an angle that he was less likely to score at, and the goalie wasn't cheating, he just got flat out beat.

I'm not sure why you keep condescending Kadri using this goal comparison, they really aren't similar.

It's one thing to consider Sarich not much of a shooting threat and make the decision to cheat towards more higher percentage plays. I was really glad to hear Bernier confirm that he was indeed consciously cheating and got burnt.

Only a foolish goalie dismisses Kadri as a shooting threat, regardless of where he is in the offensive zone. The same goes for Kessel, Lupul and JVR. Dubnyk just got caught w/ his pants down.

 

[Pi]

It's one thing to consider Sarich not much of a shooting threat and make the decision to cheat towards more higher percentage plays. I was really glad to hear Bernier confirm that he was indeed consciously cheating and got burnt.

Only a foolish goalie dismisses Kadri as a shooting threat, regardless of where he is in the offensive zone. The same goes for Kessel, Lupul and JVR. Dubnyk just got caught w/ his pants down.

Exactly.

Bernier played with the odds. I don't mind that at all...that's just smart thinking and effective risk taking.

If a guy has scored 25 goals in 1000 games, I think you're allowed to cheat on the play.

 

[Pi]

Bernier was cheating because there was a clear cross crease pass for Sarich, at this point Sarich took an NHLer's shot.

Kadri was at an angle that he was less likely to score at, and the goalie wasn't cheating, he just got flat out beat.

I'm not sure why you keep condescending Kadri using this goal comparison, they really aren't similar.

ULF is a devil's advocate. He'll always be assuming the position of the other side of the arguement.