Post-Game Talk: Leafs Win 4-1 | "Corsi Enthusiasts Hate Them!"

[Mitchy]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

 

[ACC1224]

Please tell me you're kidding.

ETA: Apparently you weren't kidding. With regards to the guy who called in - as I've said countless times, sometimes the worst part about being a Leafs fan is other Leafs fans.

Sometimes worst part = only part.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

I'd rather be ahead in standings than in power rankings. I stopped giving importance to power rankings a while back.

 

[Asif16*]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

Again, they are probably basing this off on the way habs and wild are getting wins. They are outplaying/outshooting teams, thats why they won.'

The leafs sometimes get outplayed and outshot but still win. I guess thats how tsn did it?

But i could careless about powerrankings. It means nothing to me. STandings is where my eyes are at

 

[Ari91]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

We don't play pretty enough for them I guess

Doesn't matter. I'd rather have the points and placement in the NHL standings than be at the top of TSN's power rankings.

 

[4evaBlue]

I don't even think the Leafs were outplayed, (with the exception of the first period). People need to understand shots aren't the gospel.

Do you want 5 shots and no goals because you are just throwing pucks at the net... or 1 shot 1 goal because you set up chance?

This is exactly it and one of the things cori fails to capture. Not all shots are the same, not even close.

In a lot of cases a bad shot on net ends up as a turnover (easy save with rebound directed toward a defender) and should under no circumstance should it be used to pad possession stats. Last night, the Leafs engaged in a few cycles that generated no shots, mostly by the 4th line. Puck possession not reported by corsi. Sure, they could have taken a useless shot on net that resulted in a turnover, but they decided to keep the puck along the boards and eat up some time. Remember Bowen's comments like "They're going to need a new puck after that shift" over the past few games after a 4th line shift? That's how the Leafs play when they have the lead.

The top 6 mostly relies on quality shots instead of quantity and it looks like the 3rd line could be put in the same category of late. Bolland and Raymond have been clutch.

Analysts like Kypreos like to call this puck luck, but I actually felt bad for the Minny goalie after he got pulled. Sure, it was on only 7 shots, but the kid had no chance on Bozak's goal and not much more on Smith's breakaway. The Lupul goal was stoppable, but in general, the Leafs had as many scoring chances as the Wilds did. The Leafs also had one of the highest quality shots for last season.

The shot differential also makes sense. Reimer added around 10 rebound shots and we spent half of the first on the PK. Props to the PK unit and Reimer for keeping us in the game.

 

[theIceWookie]

This is exactly it and one of the things cori fails to capture. Not all shots are the same, not even close. In a lot of cases a bad shot on net ends up as a turnover (easy save with rebound directed toward a defender) and should under no circumstance should it be used to pad possession stats. Last night, the Leafs engaged in afew cycles that generated no shots, mostly by the 4th line. Puck possession time not recorded. Sure, they could have taken a useless shot on net that resulted in a turnover, but they decided to keep the puck along the boards and eat up some time. Remember Bowen's comments like "They're going to need a new puck after that shift" over the past few games after a 4th line shift? That's how the Leafs play.

The top 6 mostly relies on quality shots instead of quantity and it looks like the 3rd line could be put in the same categoty of late. They've been clutch.

Analysts like Kypreos like to call this puck luck, but I actually felt bad for the Minny goalie after he got pulled. Sure, it was on only 7 shots, but the kid had no chance on Bozak's goal and not much more on Smith's breakaway. The Lupul goal was stoppable, but in general, the Leafs had as many scoring chances as the Wilds did.

The shot differential also makes sense. Reimer added around 10 rebound shots and we spent half of the first on the PK. Props to the PK unit and Reimer for keeping us in the game.

http://blog.philbirnbaum.com/2013/10/corsi-shot-quality-and-toronto-maple.html

Read it. It's actually a pretty interesting idea.

It speaks exactly to Corsi and it's shortsides.

 

[CellarDweller0]

That's pretty sweet. Kinda subtle in a way, but that's what makes it great IMO.

Thanks. Pretty simple. Thought that the Chem & stats thing would tie in ok as well as the double letter stat abbreviations. I cheated a little of course.

Enjoy and feel free to use. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

 

[EDDIE20*]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

There's a surprise.

 

[ULF_55]

The shot differential also makes sense. Reimer added around 10 rebound shots and we spent half of the first on the PK. Props to the PK unit and Reimer for keeping us in the game.

Shots per full games:

Reimer
37 - Montreal 11th. place team (home team)
37 - Minnesota 14th.

Bernier
31 - Edmonton 27th.
36 - Nashville 18th. (home team)
33 - Colorada 2nd.
32 - Philadelphia 30th. (home team)

How many rebound shots did Bernier produce in Nashville?

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Best goaltending tandem in the NHL...they need to get through this rash of injuries. Leafs have only three games left before David Clarkson gets in the lineup! They have a wealth of scorers and Rielly looks awesome!

Reims had a real standup game. Raymond didn't look out of place on the first line. Kessel showed he was selfless by not knocking in that Raymond shot on the open net. The guys are bonding well already in this early stage of the season.

Wasn't pretty but 6-1 and no Clarkson, it's great to be a Leafs fan again. I would rather have the Leafs 6-1 then 1-6, good start to the season...but long ways to go still. GLG!!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

As bad as the shot count was, I never thought we were badly outplayed. When you are shorthanded as much as we were, those things are inflated. My feeling is if we were behind we were more than capable of making a push. This is why shots on goal, corsi, advanced stats need a grain of salt sprinked over them.

And this is also why Leafs fans should not apologize to other fanbases!

If I can anyone of you apologizing...LOL Slap on the wrists.

 

[EDDIE20*]

As bad as the shot count was, I never thought we were badly outplayed. When you are shorthanded as much as we were, those things are inflated. My feeling is if we were behind we were more than capable of making a push. This is why shots on goal, corsi, advanced stats need a grain of salt sprinked over them.

And this is also why Leafs fans should not apologize to other fanbases!

If I can anyone of you apologizing...LOL Slap on the wrists.

I don't apologize to the opposing fan base when we win. **** 'em!

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

What do the haters have to say now? Wild got 5 powerplays, Leafs got 3 and we still won 4-1. Goalie battle is far from over and Rielly is a gem.

No JVR, No Clarkson, No Kulemin, No Fraser and No McLaren. And we still win, no thanks to the refs who were trying to give the game to the Wild, but no go! Leafs are awesome, I can't wait until we get our 4 starters back.

Nobody said it has to be pretty...they just gotta count.

 

[TootooTrain]

Anybody see the TSN power rankings? Habs are ahead of us as are the Wild.

And yet other teams say the media are a bunch of leaf homers.

Special teams can you win games you probably shouldn't have. That is what good teams do. Our 5 on 5 play will have to pick up soon, but it's certainly not a concern when they have the record they do. Love this team.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Here's some food for thought for people fixated on shots on goal.

In 2009-10, the Leafs ranked 3rd in the NHL for CORSI (+422). We averaged 34.6 shots per GP. Only 4 teams had more shots and they finished 3rd, 7th, 1st and 8th respectively in league standings.

Anyone want to hazard a guess where Toronto finished in league standings? 29th overall.

Seems we've been defying CORSI for a lot longer than people think. Well that or there are certain things that are far more relevant to the outcome.

 

[Warden of the North]

As bad as the shot count was, I never thought we were badly outplayed. When you are shorthanded as much as we were, those things are inflated. My feeling is if we were behind we were more than capable of making a push. This is why shots on goal, corsi, advanced stats need a grain of salt sprinked over them.

And this is also why Leafs fans should not apologize to other fanbases!

If I can anyone of you apologizing...LOL Slap on the wrists.

Well said.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

As bad as the shot count was, I never thought we were badly outplayed. When you are shorthanded as much as we were, those things are inflated. My feeling is if we were behind we were more than capable of making a push. This is why shots on goal, corsi, advanced stats need a grain of salt sprinked over them.

And this is also why Leafs fans should not apologize to other fanbases!

If I can anyone of you apologizing...LOL Slap on the wrists.

I'm not worried about the Leafs only getting 14 shots, they were chronically outshot last year and were still a solid team, same for this year, shot totals don't matter when you have an oportunistic team with depth up front, Leafs are just that.

Also that was pretty cool what Phil Kessel did to let Raymond get the ENG, just making sure it went in but not touching it. Nice teammatey kind of thing. GLG.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not worried about the Leafs only getting 14 shots, they were chronically outshot last year and were still a solid team, same for this year, shot totals don't matter when you have an oportunistic team with depth up front, Leafs are just that.

Also that was pretty cool what Phil Kessel did to let Raymond get the ENG, just making sure it went in but not touching it. Nice teammatey kind of thing. GLG.

I remember a time when the refrain here was we outshot the opposition, ran into a hot goalie, and played too well to lose.

Otherwise known as the Ron Wilson era.

I'll take playing bad and winning anyday.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

I remember a time when the refrain here was we outshot the opposition, ran into a hot goalie, and played too well to lose.

Otherwise known as the Ron Wilson era.

I'll take playing bad and winning anyday.

Agreed.

Leafs outshot every team they played when Wilson was the coach and had a losing record so haters did you learn something from the Leafs games?

 

[TootooTrain]

Here's some food for thought for people fixated on shots on goal.

In 2009-10, the Leafs ranked 3rd in the NHL for CORSI (+422). We averaged 34.6 shots per GP. Only 4 teams had more shots and they finished 3rd, 7th, 1st and 8th respectively in league standings.

Anyone want to hazard a guess where Toronto finished in league standings? 29th overall.

Seems we've been defying CORSI for a lot longer than people think. Well that or there are certain things that are far more relevant to the outcome.

So true. Getting 30-35 shots per game used to be pretty common. Unfortunately none of them were real high-percentage scoring chances because the team really didn't have the skilled players who can drive the slot.

 

[4evaBlue]

Shots per full games:

Reimer
37 - Montreal 11th. place team (home team)
37 - Minnesota 14th.

Bernier
31 - Edmonton 27th.
36 - Nashville 18th. (home team)
33 - Colorada 2nd.
32 - Philadelphia 30th. (home team)

How many rebound shots did Bernier produce in Nashville?

At most, half as much as Reimer but Bernier outright stole that game we had no business of winning. Reimer was the best goalie on the ice last night and was a big reason why we won the game, but I don't think he stole the game. I'm soo glad things turned out this way, and Reimer didn't start against the Oilers instead. That game was by far the worst game of the season in terms of the number of quality chances allowed.

 

[4evaBlue]

http://blog.philbirnbaum.com/2013/10/corsi-shot-quality-and-toronto-maple.html

Read it. It's actually a pretty interesting idea.

It speaks exactly to Corsi and it's shortsides.

Interesting read so far, thanks for the link.

 

[Gary Nylund]

As bad as the shot count was, I never thought we were badly outplayed. When you are shorthanded as much as we were, those things are inflated. My feeling is if we were behind we were more than capable of making a push. This is why shots on goal, corsi, advanced stats need a grain of salt sprinked over them.

And this is also why Leafs fans should not apologize to other fanbases!

If I can anyone of you apologizing...LOL Slap on the wrists.

Yes, not badly outplayed at all. For some reason, I'm having trouble saving the gamecast picture from ESPN or I'd post it here but you can see for yourself here.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400484325

Just fiddle with it until 'G'-oal and 'X'-Shot on Goal are clicked and you get a nice picture of where all the shots came from. I am finding these pictures very informative! By my count, if you look at only the shots that came from inside the hashmarks, the Leafs were outshot only 9-6. Most of the MIN shots came from outside.

 

[LeafOfBread]

Shots per full games:

Reimer
37 - Montreal 11th. place team (home team)
37 - Minnesota 14th.

Bernier
31 - Edmonton 27th.
36 - Nashville 18th. (home team)
33 - Colorada 2nd.
32 - Philadelphia 30th. (home team)

How many rebound shots did Bernier produce in Nashville?

Those shots were due to the amount of time we spent on the PK.

We were actually really even in terms of possession for that game.

http://www.extraskater.com/game/2013-10-10-maple-leafs-predators

When the game was close/even, we were about even in corsi and fenwick.

In the Edmonton game, we were even in possession with the Oilers for the entirety of the game.

http://www.extraskater.com/game/2013-10-12-oilers-maple-leafs