Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign Mark Fraser to PTO

[Nithoniniel]

Because the AHL and NHL is not stylistically the same, and not taking that into account would be a mistake?

 

[IBLEAF]

I like guys who give 110% and leave it all on the ice rather then these soft floaters who quite on there team and fans..hope he makes it

 

[Pookie]

Because the AHL and NHL is not stylistically the same, and not taking that into account would be a mistake?

This is a belief. Not a fact.

All of our prospects and the prospects of other teams are not plugs. They are competing for jobs and future development.

If playing with size on your bench gives you confidence how is that a hindrance at the NHL level?

I don't for a second think it is a deterrent. But teams laughed at the Leafs last year. They weren't laughing at their shooting skills. When most of the game is about out working your opponent, this thing... is a thing.

 

[Apollo Leaf]

Really liked him a couple of years ago when we made that playoff appearance, but I can't see a spot for him on this team though.

 

[Nithoniniel]

This is a belief. Not a fact.

All of our prospects and the prospects of other teams are not plugs. They are competing for jobs and future development.

If playing with size on your bench gives you confidence how is that a hindrance at the NHL level?

I don't for a second think it is a deterrent. But teams laughed at the Leafs last year. They weren't laughing at their shooting skills. When most of the game is about out working your opponent, this thing... is a thing.

Eh, pretty much anybody who has seen both AHL and the NHL would agree that there are pretty obvious differences.

 

[Pookie]

Eh, pretty much anybody who has seen both AHL and the NHL would agree that there are pretty obvious differences.

Really? So Cooke, Kassian, Chris Neil don't play in the NHL?

Stortini? Reaves? Bollig? Jackman? Scott?

No rough stuff at all? No need for confidence
?

 

[Guy Boucher]

Really? So Cooke, Kassian, Chris Neil don't play in the NHL?

Stortini? Reaves? Bollig? Jackman? Scott?

No rough stuff at all? No need for confidence
?

Cooke, Stortini and Kassian don't have NHL contracts. Neil, Jackman and Scott are far more often than not healthy scratches.

Kind of defeating your own point.

 

[SprDaVE]

Really? So Cooke, Kassian, Chris Neil don't play in the NHL?

Stortini? Reaves? Bollig? Jackman? Scott?

No rough stuff at all? No need for confidence
?

I'm sure they'll just roll over and cry... on the ice. How on earth has any team ever played against Matt Cooke? I think the only thing to do for the Leafs if they see Chris Neil is to stop, drop and roll... and then probably pee your pants a little.

I have no idea how NHL teams are ever able to play against the huge amount of minutes Stortini plays. How can you handle that? It's impossible. How can you avoid playing against Zach Stortini? I mean, you bring up excellent points. I'm sure it's never been possible to play against that kind of player.

And for the record, a portion of the "feared" players you listed don't even have a contract or PTO to show their Ragnar Lothbrok level of aggression.

 

[Pookie]

I'm sure they'll just roll over and cry... on the ice. How on earth has any team ever played against Matt Cooke? I think the only thing to do for the Leafs if they see Chris Neil is to stop, drop and roll... and then probably pee your pants a little.

I have no idea how NHL teams are ever able to play against the huge amount of minutes Stortini plays. How can you handle that? It's impossible. How can you avoid playing against Zach Stortini? I mean, you bring up excellent points. I'm sure it's never been possible to play against that kind of player.

And for the record, a portion of the "feared" players you listed don't even have a contract or PTO to show their Ragnar Lothbrok level of aggression.

I see. Let's nitpick a few examples and overlook the overall conclusion.

No fighting in the NHL at all this season eh?

The fact that the number of players that fought last year is exactly the same as it was in 2005-06 (276) means nothing.

Toughness means everything to the franchise players in the AHL but absolutely nothing at the NHL level?

Got it.

 

[Quares27]

Cooke, Stortini and Kassian don't have NHL contracts. Neil, Jackman and Scott are far more often than not healthy scratches.

Kind of defeating your own point.

He's not defeating his point at all. They are examples of different types of players that exists in the NHL. You're just nitpicking to avoid the actual point.

Lucic? Simmonds? Chara? Prust? Downie? Bordeleau? Clifford? Brown? Stoner? Wilson? Mcleod? Martin? Boll? Dorsett? Rinaldo? Glass? Thornton? Clutterbuck? Stewart? Bollig? Engelland? Foligno? Nolan? Mcquaid? Prout? Thorburn? are those enough names for you?

 

[Guy Boucher]

I see. Let's nitpick a few examples and overlook the overall conclusion.

No fighting in the NHL at all this season eh?

The fact that the number of players that fought last year is exactly the same as it was in 2005-06 (276) means nothing.

Got it.

Probably means you don't need to waste roster spots on scrubs to have guys fight.

 

[Guy Boucher]

He's not defeating his point at all. They are examples of different types of players that exists in the NHL. You're just nitpicking to avoid the actual point.

Lucic? Simmonds? Chara? Prust? Downie? Bordeleau? Clifford? Brown? Stoner? Wilson? Mcleod? Martin? Boll? Dorsett? Rinaldo? Glass? Thornton? Clutterbuck? Stewart? Bollig? Engelland? Foligno? Nolan? Mcquaid? Prout? Thorburn? are those enough names for you?

Most of those guys can actually play hockey and move around the ice at a less-than-glacier pace, making them irrelevant as far as Mark Fraser is concerned.

 

[Pookie]

Probably means you don't need to waste roster spots on scrubs to have guys fight.

You'd rather have career minor league level skilled players with small cap hits taking minutes away from the top line?

Why is toughness important at the AHL level and irrelevant at the NHL level? … well, just irrelevant apparently in Toronto and a few other places… since it is clearly valued in others.

We should just be thanking our lucky stars we don't play in the Western conference. This team would get steamrolled.

 

[SprDaVE]

I see. Let's nitpick a few examples and overlook the overall conclusion.

No fighting in the NHL at all this season eh?

The fact that the number of players that fought last year is exactly the same as it was in 2005-06 (276) means nothing.

Toughness means everything to the franchise players in the AHL but absolutely nothing at the NHL level?

Got it.

He's not defeating his point at all. They are examples of different types of players that exists in the NHL. You're just nitpicking to avoid the actual point.

Lucic? Simmonds? Chara? Prust? Downie? Bordeleau? Clifford? Brown? Stoner? Wilson? Mcleod? Martin? Boll? Dorsett? Rinaldo? Glass? Thornton? Clutterbuck? Stewart? Bollig? Engelland? Foligno? Nolan? Mcquaid? Prout? Thorburn? are those enough names for you?

Nobody has EVER said there won't be fights. You're the one that's making this weird correlation that the players have zero pride, manhood or sense of toughness and that they will just cry in the corner of the ice because Stortini may stare at them from the bench of pressbox.

Don't we have Polak? Winnik? Phaneuf (a ton of PIMs btw)? Carrick? Robidas? Komarov? Panik? Lupul and Kadri have been known to not shy away from the physical stuff even though they don't fight or hit people through the boards every game. Not to mention some of the AHL players. Some tough guys that have fought and tangled with some pretty big dudes. It's not the Bay Street Bullies, but it's also not the Teletubbies either.

I'm really not sure what you're looking for. There are SO many better options then signing Mark Fraser. A journeyman player will not make us more confident or better. Plenty of teams have shown to be among the contenders without any big time physical players and they certainly don't pee their pants when they see an enforcer look at them from the bench nor do they get cheap shotted.

I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this and I have simply no idea how anyone can think how an enforcer does anything on a NHL team in 2015.

 

[Pookie]

Nobody has EVER said there won't be fights. You're the one that's making this weird correlation that the players have zero pride, manhood or sense of toughness and that they will just cry in the corner of the ice because Stortini may stare at them from the bench of pressbox.

Don't we have Polak? Winnik? Phaneuf (a ton of PIMs btw)? Carrick? Robidas? Komarov? Panik? Lupul and Kadri have been known to not shy away from the physical stuff even though they don't fight or hit people through the boards every game. Not to mention some of the AHL players. Some tough guys that have fought and tangled with some pretty big dudes. It's not the Bay Street Bullies, but it's also not the Teletubbies either.

I'm really not sure what you're looking for. There are SO many better options then signing Mark Fraser. A journeyman player will not make us more confident or better. Plenty of teams have shown to be among the contenders without any big time physical players and they certainly don't pee their pants when they see an enforcer look at them from the bench nor do they get cheap shotted.

I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this and I have simply no idea how anyone can think how an enforcer does anything on a NHL team in 2015.

You are bringing two discussions together.

Signing Mark Fraser to PTO is completely fine. He either plays his way on to the team or doesn't. If you are right, he won't. I trust the team management to look at all options and award playing time to those who earn it. It's a non-issue.

The second discussion is about the need for toughness. Some here have a very weird view on things. Needed at the AHL level. The team also needs to play the same way at the AHL level. Yet the NHL club is devoid of toughness but the Marlies are not (after Lou corrected it). So, players develop and play the system with some "insurance" on the way up but it's then logical to take away that "insurance" when they get to the big leagues?

I don't necessarily mean an Orr. I mean someone that will stand up to Staal when he shoots the puck at the captain… and that someone isn't necessarily the captain.

The players you list… well, sort of speaks for itself doesn't it? Winnik, Carrick (whom I like), Panik, each fought the same amount of times as JVR and Peter Holland. And none of them stood up for Phaneuf or their teammates at any point during the season last year.

Kadri? He's only fought twice in his career but let's dive into this.





And it's interesting you bring him up. He is an emotional player. On fire some nights and on strike others. While he's only been involved in fighting twice, mostly not of his own choosing, those fights came in years when he had Orr and McLaren (and Fraser) on the roster.

Coincidence that those were his best point years too?

Nah, confidence means nothing…. can't be any correlation at all.

 

[Pookie]

I like guys who give 110% and leave it all on the ice rather then these soft floaters who quite on there team and fans..hope he makes it

me too

 

[Mess]

If Mark Fraser was a better skater he could be a better player, as his limited mobility in the NHL which is more about speed now is a liability.

His hitting, shot blocking and physicality is what interests teams however. But in today's NHL skating in the #1 priority.

Mark Fraser could only be used in limited 5v5 TOI/g situations as a #6 dman and used as a PK specialist thereafter where his assets would be useful.

Essentially would you prefer Fraser or Rielly taking and blocking shots off a foot/ankle on the PK or clearing the front of the net of big forwards screening the goalie?.

Leafs essentially have their Mark Fraser in Roman Polak at present of a player that can fill that role as a depth Dman and PKer.

 

[Pookie]

If Mark Fraser was a better skater he could be a better player, as his limited mobility in the NHL which is more about speed now is a liability.

His hitting, shot blocking and physicality is what interests teams however. But in today's NHL skating in the #1 priority.

Mark Fraser could only be used in limited 5v5 TOI/g situations as a #6 dman and used as a PK specialist thereafter where his assets would be useful.

Essentially would you prefer Fraser or Rielly taking and blocking shots off a foot/ankle on the PK or clearing the front of the net of big forwards screening the goalie?.

Leafs essentially have their Mark Fraser in Roman Polak at present of a player that can fill that role as a depth Dman and PKer.

While skating is a #1 priority, you really think a blue line of Gardiner, Rielly, and 4 other Ian White like players is realistic and can do the job?

Stay at home D-men have been popular too and I don't see that need going away. A different train of thought is that you pair a skater with a solid defender… as Ottawa did with Karlsson and Methot.

 

[The Iceman]

If Fraser plays on the 3rd pairing, I can see him being serviceable as he was in 12-13 when he led all Leafs with a +18 rating. But more than that, he was not a liability 5 v 5 rather than an asset. He was also great protection for our team, a guy that could play 5 v 5 and is one of the toughest players in the NHL. Sort of like our Adam Mcquaid for Boston when they won the cup. Maybe he is insurance if other guys do not work out. Robidas who is nearing the end of the line.

Surprisingly Fraser was +2 with NJ last year, I remember a game he was in against us. I think he was roughing up one of our players, but the player didn't want to drop the gloves. Anyway, if he can play to the level of 12-13, he will be an asset. Atleast he is a great guy in the room, and an asset to the leadership group we have here. Have to root for guys like this.

He sure played well with Franson in 2012. Maybe it was the knee that took away what little speed he had. If the knee is stronger now...
I always enjoyed watching him. He is a tough SOB to play against and an awesome PK defenseman.
No harm signing and still in his prime for a D.

 

[Mystifo]

You are bringing two discussions together.

Signing Mark Fraser to PTO is completely fine. He either plays his way on to the team or doesn't. If you are right, he won't. I trust the team management to look at all options and award playing time to those who earn it. It's a non-issue.

The second discussion is about the need for toughness. Some here have a very weird view on things. Needed at the AHL level. The team also needs to play the same way at the AHL level. Yet the NHL club is devoid of toughness but the Marlies are not (after Lou corrected it). So, players develop and play the system with some "insurance" on the way up but it's then logical to take away that "insurance" when they get to the big leagues?

I don't necessarily mean an Orr. I mean someone that will stand up to Staal when he shoots the puck at the captain… and that someone isn't necessarily the captain.

The players you list… well, sort of speaks for itself doesn't it? Winnik, Carrick (whom I like), Panik, each fought the same amount of times as JVR and Peter Holland. And none of them stood up for Phaneuf or their teammates at any point during the season last year.

Kadri? He's only fought twice in his career but let's dive into this.





And it's interesting you bring him up. He is an emotional player. On fire some nights and on strike others. While he's only been involved in fighting twice, mostly not of his own choosing, those fights came in years when he had Orr and McLaren (and Fraser) on the roster.

Coincidence that those were his best point years too?

Nah, confidence means nothing…. can't be any correlation at all.

That same year Nazem Kadri spent most of his time playing against 3rd lines instead of the 1st/2nd lines. Is it just a anomaly that his numbers were higher facing inferior competition?

 

[Pookie]

That same year Nazem Kadri spent most of his time playing against 3rd lines instead of the 1st/2nd lines. Is it just a anomaly that his numbers were higher facing inferior competition?

Maybe. But let's not discount the confidence that he had. He had a very disappointing season last year. Lots of potential factors for that.

We believe that toughness in the AHL instills confidence in players… allows them to be aggressive and feel as though they will be defended by their teammates. That belief… or need… doesn't go away at the NHL level.

Just because the Leafs are making a choice to be pushed around by the Sens and Habs doesn't mean that others teams want to be.

Again, we should be thankful we are no longer in the Western conference. That would be ugly.

 

[Eb]

If Mark Fraser was a better skater he could be a better player

Valuable insight right here folks

 

[yubbers]

lirl

 

[Maplebeasts]

I like guys who give 110% and leave it all on the ice rather then these soft floaters who quite on there team and fans..hope he makes it

I absolutely hate this. Can you prove that last year's team quit on you without a shadow of a doubt? Maybe they were just really overachieving in the forst half and the law of averages came around to bite them in the ass.

 

[Pookie]

I absolutely hate this. Can you prove that last year's team quit on you without a shadow of a doubt? Maybe they were just really overachieving in the forst half and the law of averages came around to bite them in the ass.

I would say that with the way they plummeted in the standings the Law of Gravity is more applicable.

(I write all my own material)