Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[18leafsfan18]

And yet the Panthers have back to back cup wins and the Leafs chocked away another first round……..something doesn’t add up here

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

They've never been more structured. They've never been more talented. They've never had a better defense. The Leafs are the best they've ever been... but can't get out of the first round...

There's nothing wrong with admitting the Leafs are more structured defensively than they have been in a long time. Doesn't mean he was saying the Leafs are the bestest team ever.

 

[Dreakmur]

There's nothing wrong with admitting the Leafs are more structured defensively than they have been in a long time. Doesn't mean he was saying the Leafs are the bestest team ever.

Are they more structured, or do they just actually have good personnel on the blueline? When I watch them play in their own zone, I see a lot of poor habits - poor positioning, weak sticks, cheating offensively, fly-bys, slow to recognize attack patterns - they just get away with it in the regular season because they're more talented. The wingers especially were a disaster in the defensive zone last year.

Their special teams, which are massively impacted by team structure, have been bad too.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Are they more structured, or do they just actually have good personnel on the blueline? When I watch them play in their own zone, I see a lot of poor habits - poor positioning, weak sticks, cheating offensively, fly-bys, slow to recognize attack patterns - they just get away with it in the regular season because they're more talented. The wingers especially were a disaster in the defensive zone last year.

All I know is I remember mid season thinking "Damn, when was the last time we got running around in our own zone?" Under every single coach since Pat Burns I remember the clown rodeo show 5 times a game of chasing the puck in our own zone. If it's just better personnel, then why were even our bottom pairings doing so much better than past regimes? I am extremely upset with Keefe over a few things but defensive structure isn't one of them.

 

[zeke]

And yet the Panthers have back to back cup wins and the Leafs chocked away another first round……..something doesn’t add up here

 

[Racer88]

This is actually funny and well played

 

[rumman]

Don’t forget Bogosian as well, and he was excellent (probably the best out of that group)

Yes, Bogo was the best acquisition last season, a shame he wasn’t interested in returning.

 

[ottomaddox]

Probably see:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Simmonds
Engvall-Kampf-Spezza
Kase
Gabriel
Robertson

Kase and Gabriel are RWers so Robertson has the chance to take a spot at this point. We'll definitely see a lot of mixing up on the left side. Wouldn't be surprised to see Kampf get some time at LW too:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase
Kampf-Spezza-Simmonds
Engvall
Gabriel
Robertson

With all due respect...

In 2012 TOR acquired Carter Ashton for Keith Aulie. I started a thread putting Ashton on the top line. I couldn't have been more wrong. I was just excited for a new player and the possibility of bringing new hope.

I think of your roster of Bunting and Ritchie in the top 6 is a bit on the hopeful side. I also understand that Vesey had the same opportunity last year. How did that work out? Not so great. He's no longer a leaf.

Is this roster on hope (emotional) or conviction (logic)?

Perhaps I'm still too angry/bitter from last year's meltdown.

 

[Dreakmur]

All I know is I remember mid season thinking "Damn, when was the last time we got running around in our own zone?" Under every single coach since Pat Burns I remember the clown rodeo show 5 times a game of chasing the puck in our own zone. If it's just better personnel, then why were even our bottom pairings doing so much better than past regimes? I am extremely upset with Keefe over a few things but defensive structure isn't one of them.

Our bottom pairing was better than a lot of our second pairs of the past.

 

[zeke]

Yes, Bogo was the best acquisition last season, a shame he wasn’t interested in returning.

Bogo did play well in his cushy 14:32. nice bottom pair D.

Nice to have a team with a bunch of talented young dmen ready to fight over those bottom pair spots, instead of a team like Tampa who needs to give a bottom pair D a 3yr deal.

 

[Ashdown2]

Where does this misinfo come from?

explain me your logic ? i dont know what to tell you lol lok at the rosters of these teams
dont take my word for it, im pretty sure i remember "the hockeyguy" saying the same thing.

you do realize that the entire Stanley cup final. The back to back cup champs. A division winner and last years presidents trophy winner are all in the Atlantic right?

and ? those teams got worse ....... did any of them get "better" ? is my statement false ?



if you really want a very high level anaysis:


tampa; lost: colemen, gourde, goodrow, johnson, savard, schenn and replaced with bogo and 38 year old perry ,,,,,,,,,,,,, so worse

montreal: lost: danault, weber, perry, tatar and replaced with hoffman and savard .... you think a team with suzuki, KK and even down the middle will win anything ? so worse not even close to a playoff team

florida lost: wennberg, yandle DREIGER ! and replaced with reinhart. ... i love that reinhart deal and finally gives them that offensive 2C since trochek but overally the team i feel is worse. they are replacing a vezina playing goalie from last year with a 20 year old. Is he going to come in and replicate a .925+ save percentage ? i highly doubt it. There D core i like but overall i would say either the same or a little worst than last year.

boston lost: kreji, lauzon, richie, rask, halak, kuraly and replaced with ullmark, foligno, huala, forbort ... so worse.

the rest not worth mentioning.

 

[TopCheese]

We have two slots in the top 6 that are wide open and about 6 players that could fill those spots. I think a dark horse for the 2LW slot is Mikheyev. If he gets his wrist strength back he could be good for a 20+20 season. I see it shaping up as:

bunting - matthews - Marner
Mik - Tavares - nylander
Ritchie - kerfoot - kase
Spezza - kampf- simmonds/ Robertson

 

[Leafsfan74]

Andy was one of the worst goalies in hockey last year.

Foligno played 7gms.

Agreed. I would have mentioned Galchenyuk rather than Andersen as a loss.

As it were, if we are being objective, this team did well in the regular season (as usual) without Foligno for most of the season. Unfortunately he was clearly inured early and largely ineffective in the playoffs due to this.

So, they lose Hyman, Foligno, Galchenyuk and Bogosian. They were all contributors in their way and they are all players who don't play too soft. Gally at least has a bit of a headstrong approach in driving to the net.

The question is, did they replace them with Ritchie, Kase, Bunting and Gabriel? We know they haven't replaced Bogosian as yet.

For me, they need to ice a team that can beat anyone and more importantly compete when the chips are down. There is no player in the last 17 years that have been able to do that for this franchise to win a round. Insane as it sounds.

 

[kb]

Here is a rather odd fact.

Last season of the 17 forwards who scored a goal for the Leafs last year, 15 of them had a shooting percentage of 11.3% or higher. The only 2 who didn't were Mikheyev and Galchenyuk at 6.5% and 8.9% respectively.

 

[The Iceman]

Yes, Bogo was the best acquisition last season, a shame he wasn’t interested in returning.

My biggest 2-FA regrets this off season is losing BOGO, and then missing out on Jani Hakanpaa (Apparently Leafs were in until the end) and his 215 hits delivered last season in only 57 games.

Would have been an ideal BOGO replacement on the bottom pair.

 

[mac nylander]

3rd line looks awful

I wonder if they should run AM/JT/Nylander right down the middle, they're all capable of driving their own lines.

 

[namttebih]

My biggest 2-FA regrets this off season is losing BOGO, and then missing out on Jani Hakanpaa (Apparently Leafs were in until the end) and his 215 hits delivered last season in only 57 games.

Would have been an ideal BOGO replacement on the bottom pair.

Is Hakanpaa purely a bottom pairing guy? Could he have filled in in place of Holl? Can he skate, or is he just a big MF?

 

[conFABulator]

At this point, I would go with:

Bunting | Matthews | Marner
Ritchie | Tavares | Nylander
Mikheyev | Kampf | Engvall
Simmonds | Kerfoot | Spezza​

I know that Bunting on the first line is a big promotion, but I feel like we singed him early for a reason. We need a guy that can bring what Hyman brought that line...good on the forecheck and puck recovery, not afraid to go to the net and the hands to convert goals in close...he lacks the Hyman size and wheels but I am hoping he makes up for it with the ability to agitate and stir things up a bit.

I am hoping that Ritchie can be a Tom Wilson-lite for that second line and that Tavares can help him get 20 to 25 goals. I think JT and Willy both had strong seasons and developed chemistry, I am keeping them together and see no reason to break up Marner and Matthews.

The third line is an actual defensive line. This is what Dubas and Keefe have said they want. This line doesn't need to score too much, just do their job. Any third line that has Ritchie, Spezza or Simmonds, or even Kerfoot on it seems to be ignoring what the Leafs have already telegraphed that they want. This line also has 3 of our PK'ers on it and can win d-zone draws.

The fourth line is secondary scoring and some sheltered minutes for Spezza and Simmonds. I know we are burying our $3.5M Kerfoot on the 4th line but his value will come as PK'er and as a guy that can play top 9 when injuries hit. You can also see why moving Kerfoot could make sense depending on what we get back or do with cap space. He is a big part of our line-up flexibility and depth when injuries hit...and they will.

Kase is the wild card...if he is healthy and looks like a contributor then we have more depth and he can fight for a role in the middle six...again more depth and flexibility which is what we want and need. Our real depth comes from Brooks, Robertson (after a half-season in the "A"), Anderson, Gabriel, Amadio, Semynov, Malgin...one of two of these guys could push from below or step in when needed.

As for the D. I already started a thread where I suggested altering the obvious pairings so that we can learn more about what we have in Rielly, Sandin, Dermott, Menell, and Liljegren so I won't re-hash my detailed reasoning, but I like the following at ES with extra PP and PK minutes given to the obvious candidates:

Muzzin | Holl
Sandin | Brodie
Rielly | Dermott​

This would have them all at about 19 minutes a night, which I think is a great goal for an 82-game season. Menell and Liljegren can step in for injuries and I think we should sign another veteran though I am not sure how that works on the roster given that Liljegren needs a shot and Menell is not waiver-exempt (if he is any good).

I like the line-up and think it is better than the one that started last season for sure. I also didn't mention that goaltending upgrade and actual 1A/1B approach should provide positive returns also.

 

[darrylsittler27]

At this point, I would go with:

Bunting | Matthews | Marner
Ritchie | Tavares | Nylander
Mikheyev | Kampf | Engvall
Simmonds | Kerfoot | Spezza​

I know that Bunting on the first line is a big promotion, but I feel like we singed him early for a reason. We need a guy that can bring what Hyman brought that line...good on the forecheck and puck recovery, not afraid to go to the net and the hands to convert goals in close...he lacks the Hyman size and wheels but I am hoping he makes up for it with the ability to agitate and stir things up a bit.

I am hoping that Ritchie can be a Tom Wilson-lite for that second line and that Tavares can help him get 20 to 25 goals. I think JT and Willy both had strong seasons and developed chemistry, I am keeping them together and see no reason to break up Marner and Matthews.

The third line is an actual defensive line. This is what Dubas and Keefe have said they want. This line doesn't need to score too much, just do their job. Any third line that has Ritchie, Spezza or Simmonds, or even Kerfoot on it seems to be ignoring what the Leafs have already telegraphed that they want. This line also has 3 of our PK'ers on it and can win d-zone draws.

The fourth line is secondary scoring and some sheltered minutes for Spezza and Simmonds. I know we are burying our $3.5M Kerfoot on the 4th line but his value will come as PK'er and as a guy that can play top 9 when injuries hit. You can also see why moving Kerfoot could make sense depending on what we get back or do with cap space. He is a big part of our line-up flexibility and depth when injuries hit...and they will.

Kase is the wild card...if he is healthy and looks like a contributor then we have more depth and he can fight for a role in the middle six...again more depth and flexibility which is what we want and need. Our real depth comes from Brooks, Robertson (after a half-season in the "A"), Anderson, Gabriel, Amadio, Semynov, Malgin...one of two of these guys could push from below or step in when needed.

As for the D. I already started a thread where I suggested altering the obvious pairings so that we can learn more about what we have in Rielly, Sandin, Dermott, Menell, and Liljegren so I won't re-hash my detailed reasoning, but I like the following at ES with extra PP and PK minutes given to the obvious candidates:

Muzzin | Holl
Sandin | Brodie
Rielly | Dermott​

This would have them all at about 19 minutes a night, which I think is a great goal for an 82-game season. Menell and Liljegren can step in for injuries and I think we should sign another veteran though I am not sure how that works on the roster given that Liljegren needs a shot and Menell is not waiver-exempt (if he is any good).

I like the line-up and think it is better than the one that started last season for sure. I also didn't mention that goaltending upgrade and actual 1A/1B approach should provide positive returns also.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I doubt they will do it. When you pay players more they play more.

Don't forget Robertson may challenge for a top 9 spot.

 

[sxvnert]

At least bring in Tatar who can perform in the regular season.

Tatar Matthews Marner
Ritchie Tavares Nylander
Bunting Kerfoot Kase
Mikheyev Kämpf Spezza
Simmonds/Gabriel/Brooks

 

[peconcan]

Ritchie Matthews Nylander
Robertson JT Marner
Bunting Kerfoot Mikheyev
Spezza Kampf Simmonds

Rielly Brodie
Sandin Muzzin
Holl Liligren
Dermott

 

[Coachcorner]

The more and more we think about it and talk that talk bout it: It's starting to hear and look like sandin is the man who plays on our first powerplay unit That's hard right thurr for real. Rielly was not good on that role last season. Lost the spot to sandin also.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

There's nothing wrong with admitting the Leafs are more structured defensively than they have been in a long time. Doesn't mean he was saying the Leafs are the bestest team ever.

Muzzin, Brodie and Bogo all contributed to a more balanced team defense and consistent structure. The Leafs may have more talented D replacing Bogo but losing him will be a net-negative for balance and structure defensively.

I'm also quite concerned with whether Tavares will be able to bounce back after his injury. Age was already not on his side; the likelihood a major concussion may affect his game should not be discounted.

Lastly, Jack Campbell's performance last season was last matched by Eddie the Eagle nearly 20 years ago but we should all be aware by now that Jack's health is a question-mark until he can prove otherwise. Mrazek is also a question-mark health-wise. Getting a .917+ save% over 60+ games was a more stable situation then what the Leafs are going into this season with.

The idea that the Leafs are an improved team going into this season rests on shaky ground.

They're probably going to have to use more draft capital--which they already lack--just to stay competitive going into the stretch run. 5 years into current core, without any success to show for it and severely depleted draft/prospect capital, is a major failure on management's part.

 

[kevsh]

With the caveat it's possible Dubas isn't done yet, but realistically a major move isn't likely, there's nothing I see on the current roster that gives me the slightest bit of hope that this team will do better in next year's playoffs.

The only flicker of ... something is that they hit rock bottom this spring and with the lowered expectations (and therefore pressure - but to a much smaller degree, this is Toronto after all) they surprise us all.

I hate to bring up Washington as an example as there really isn't much in common with this Leafs team, but the year the Caps were "supposed" to win it (going all-in with the Shattenkirk trade) they came up short yet again. The year they finally won and despite a solid reg. season, they were overlooked by many as a potential Cup winner due to their past failures.

Grasping at straws maybe but there has to be some notion of positivity, no matter how delusional, misguided or unlikely, to turn on the TV to watch this team in April, right?