Leafs retire numbers of all 16 previously honoured players plus Dave Keon's #14

[Burke the Legend]

Well you know, if you want to spin it by looking at individual seasons ignoring the 1300+ game career, 27th in all time scoring, top 50 in PpG, international career, etc.

Edited, unnecessary

Hall of pretty good longtime.

Is every top 50 guy who is durable enough to stick around for 20 years now an automatic hall of fame + jersey retirement? Even without trophies? I guess yes in Toronto.

 

[arrbez]

Hall of pretty good longtime.

Is every top 50 guy who is durable enough to stick around for 20 years now an automatic hall of fame + jersey retirement? Even without trophies? I guess yes in Toronto.

You're not the only one who thinks the Hall should have higher standards, and you're welcome to that opinion. However, consider that there are plenty of worse players than Sundin in the Hall of Fame.

It's important to understand that Sundin is in a tier of guys who are middle-ground HOF players based on the names currently in there. If you want the Hall to stop with the Yzermans and Sakics, that's fine. But acting like Sundin is some sort of outlier who is only in because he played in Toronto is either dishonest or indicates of a lack of knowledge.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Yes I know there are plenty of dubious hall of famers. Sundin & Modano are the most recent (Shanahan is kind of iffy too), if I am arguing against this trend then why wouldn't I use fresh examples? You can't raise the quality and get away from previous mistakes by constantly repeating the problem and citing the old, bad precedents when doing it.

 

[arrbez]

Yes I know there are plenty of dubious hall of famers. Sundin & Modano are the most recent (Shanahan is kind of iffy too), if I am arguing against this trend then why wouldn't I use fresh examples? You can't raise the quality and get away from previous mistakes by constantly repeating the problem and citing the old, bad precedents when doing it.

I forgot Shanahan and Modano also only got in the Hall because Toronto. My bad.

The thing is though, you weren't arguing against the trend. You were taking the opportunity to crap all over the Leafs and their fans in a thread that should be largely positive. #EMBARRASSING right?

Or did you go all out like that in every thread about a jersey retirement or HOF induction that doesn't meet your personal standards?

I guess what I'm saying is don't act now like you've been on the high road this whole time when you're covered in mud.

 

[johnnybbadd]

If Sundin and Modano are dubious hall of famers, then who playing now gets in based on your criteria other than Crosby or Ovi?

 

[4thline]

Hall of pretty good longtime.

Is every top 50 guy who is durable enough to stick around for 20 years now an automatic hall of fame + jersey retirement? Even without trophies? I guess yes in Toronto.

Top 50 Career ppg. Top 30 All time scoring. What you're describing is guys like Brindamour, Doan, Mellanby, Marleau, etc.

Unless you're advocating for a 10-20 player hall, which as arrbez already said is very different than you "lolz only in toronto" childish antics. Maybe my editing bit was necessary. We get it. Montreal has a storied history and Toronto has been mediocre for the entire expansion age but still matters more. It sucks. Get over it.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Or did you go all out like that in every thread about a jersey retirement or HOF induction that doesn't meet your personal standards?

I guess what I'm saying is don't act now like you've been on the high road this whole time when you're covered in mud.

Sundin was brought up because this was the topic, Leafs retiring low achievement players. Really isn't that difficult to understand but go on with the righteousness it's cute.

 

[johnnybbadd]

Also it is not completely necessary to get trophies and team achievments for some these players having their numbers retired. It is more than just putting up points and has to do with being the face of a franchise and the leader of a team. Gilmour probably had the best 2 year run that any Leaf had in team history and still lives in Toronto to this day. Clark is also the same that he embodies the spirit of the team and still is part of this community years after he retired. They were the faces of a slumbering franchise that had finally awoken after many lean years.

 

[Kimota]

As a Habs fan, we have many retired numbers and about the numbers themselves, I don't mind that much but I would rather if there had been an elite small number honored in some fashion instead of 20 guys.

 

[Kimota]

I liked the Leafs' old policy of honoring, not retiring. I think all teams should honor but keep all numbers in circulation. If a kid comes up and wants to wear an 'honored' number, so be it. If he feels strongly about his number, he should be allowed to wear it.

Teams can obviously encourage or discourage players from wearing a certain number, but ultimately it should be up to the individual.

When a banner is raised to the rafters, it is a number and a name. The two go together. Without the name, it's just a number. I don't see the problem.

I know I am in the minority on this issue, but I would love to keep all numbers in circulation. That includes 0, 00 and 99, too.

The opposite can be good too. Like you retire the number to honor certain players but you only retire the name of a special player to go into the rafters. It's OK that you retire numbers but only the elite players should go into the rafters and have a ceremony.