Leafs ranked 20th. by Hockey's Future (Not the Kessel Trade)

[DaveT83*]

After reading through most of the posts, I have a general observation. The issue here in my opinion is that BOTH lists have the Leafs ranked in the bottom third of the league while icing an NHL team that hasn't made the playoffs in quite some time. These strawmen being created, focusing on where OTHER teams are positioned is nothing but a smokescreen and doesn't do any favours to fans who should be demanding more from their team. An average team with average prospects doesn't bode well for the future...

Some sanity!


The first step in getting better - is accepting that you are sick.



Until the majority of this fanbase starts to look at the facts and starts asking themselves some hard questions. We'll toil in mediocrity forever. We'll continue to throw money at band-aid solutions. Quick fixes to long term systemic problems. We really need our fans to be united in this rebuild now more than ever. We have a small window to change our fortunes. But if we waiver from the plan even slightly the last 9 years will all be for nothing.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Some sanity!


The first step in getting better - is accepting that you are sick.



Until the majority of this fanbase starts to look at the facts and starts asking themselves some hard questions. We'll toil in mediocrity forever. We'll continue to throw money at band-aid solutions. Quick fixes to long term systemic problems. We really need our fans to be united in this rebuild now more than ever. We have a small window to change our fortunes. But if we waiver from the plan even slightly the last 9 years will all be for nothing.

I was looking through some other teams threads about these prospect rankings.
The interesting thing to take from it is that fans of other teams that were reanked 20-30 were angry at their General Managers for having lousy prospects, not the professional nhl scouts that compiled the lists.

Leaf fans are a very unique group...

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

It's not the THN rankings I have an issue with.

How you got that idea is strange. Strange indeed.

So you agree that the leafs have mediocre prospects?

So why do you support Burke?
After four years of bottom 10 finishes, we just finished 5th last and still have pathetic prospects.

Why on earth do you possibly support this abomination of a human being?

 

[onebighockeyfan]

I was looking through some other teams threads about these prospect rankings.
The interesting thing to take from it is that fans of other teams that were reanked 20-30 were angry at their General Managers for having lousy prospects, not the professional nhl scouts that compiled the lists.

Leaf fans are a very unique group...

I agree fully with this. Good post.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Some sanity!


The first step in getting better - is accepting that you are sick.



Until the majority of this fanbase starts to look at the facts and starts asking themselves some hard questions. We'll toil in mediocrity forever. We'll continue to throw money at band-aid solutions. Quick fixes to long term systemic problems. We really need our fans to be united in this rebuild now more than ever. We have a small window to change our fortunes. But if we waiver from the plan even slightly the last 9 years will all be for nothing.

Newsflash: you have no influence or bearing on the success of this team. What you choose or choose not to believe means nada...zip...zilch. Until the majority of this fanbase realizes this, they will forever live in a dream world.....likely one of great personal dissatisfaction, for no real, logical reason.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I just read through that thread and I didn't see a big debate over the validity of the rankings.

I also just read through a Montreal thread where they were ranked 28th. Instead of complaining about the rankings, they took the much more rational approach and complained about their GM.

leaf fans are just special I guess...

So maybe after a year you'll finally answer the question as to why you hang your hat on them now but refused to acknowledge them before? Wouldn't be because it helps you feel more "rational" than "special" as it did before?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Brian Burke is the poster boy for the old boys club.

Find me an NHL scout, GM, coach etc. who isn't. One of the few professions where results are irrelevant...do lousy and you'll just get picked up by another team. I'd challenge anyone on these entire boards to provide any meaningful evaluation of the scouts work (those involved in this debate). There are very few that seem to have any edge and even then, no one here could ever tell who said what about who.

 

[charliolemieux]

So you agree that the leafs have mediocre prospects?

So why do you support Burke?
After four years of bottom 10 finishes, we just finished 5th last and still have pathetic prospects.

Why on earth do you possibly support this abomination of a human being?

Dude you are all over the place.

Why do I support BUrke? Because I can see.

Abomination of a human being? Man you are so over the top you're on the bottom.

I'll be sure to let the hockey world know you think Rielly is a pathetic prospect.

 

[charliolemieux]

Find me an NHL scout, GM, coach etc. who isn't. One of the few professions where results are irrelevant...do lousy and you'll just get picked up by another team. I'd challenge anyone on these entire boards to provide any meaningful evaluation of the scouts work (those involved in this debate). There are very few that seem to have any edge and even then, no one here could ever tell who said what about who.

Two people exemplify this.

Mike Milbury and Craig Button.

How the two of them still have jobs in anything that has to do with Hockey is amazing to say the least.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

So maybe after a year you'll finally answer the question as to why you hang your hat on them now but refused to acknowledge them before? Wouldn't be because it helps you feel more "rational" than "special" as it did before?

As I've stated over and over and over again... I put far more weight in THN rankings because they are made by professional nhl scouts.

They ranked the leafs 20th last year as well.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Dude you are all over the place.

Why do I support BUrke? Because I can see.

Abomination of a human being? Man you are so over the top you're on the bottom.

I'll be sure to let the hockey world know you think Rielly is a pathetic prospect.

So you don't care that we've finished bottom 10 four years in a row and still (according to professional nhl scouts) have pathetic prospects, one player (reilly) notwithstanding.

What would have to happen for you to not support Burke?
Burke's created a lousy team that finished 5th last, and has lousy prospects ranked 20th by professional nhl scouts.

I don' think there's anything that can happen. No matter what happens, no matter what the evidence, facts, opinions, rankings, standings... none of it matters.
You "like" Burke. The end.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

As I've stated over and over and over again... I put far more weight in THN rankings because they are made by professional nhl scouts.

They ranked the leafs 20th last year as well.

So to help you say what you want to say but refuse to:

"I want to discuss anything that allows me to bash Burke and want nothing to do with anything that protrays him in a positive light".

It's really not that hard.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

So to help you say what you want to say but refuse to:

"I want to discuss anything that allows me to bash Burke and want nothing to do with anything that protrays him in a positive light".

It's really not that hard.

Are you suggesting I should trust HF's rankings more than a ranking list created by professional nhl scouts?
Because that would be a pretty ridiculous suggestion...

The problem with Burke is that there isn't really anything at all to paint him in a positive light.
Actual facts and evidence prove that he's a disgrace.

It's just spin, rhetoric, and lies that his defenders use at this point.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Are you suggesting I should trust HF's rankings more than a ranking list created by professional nhl scouts?
Because that would be a pretty ridiculous suggestion...

The problem with Burke is that there isn't really anything at all to paint him in a positive light.
Actual facts and evidence prove that he's a disgrace.

It's just spin, rhetoric, and lies that his defenders use at this point.

No, I'm rather clearly stating what everyone knows: you, like a handful of others, refuse to come here and discuss merits, rather you choose to play a schtick whereby you either ignore anything positive or try to make it a negative and invariably turn every thread into the exact same discussion. It becomes even more boggling that someone who makes the statements you so regularly do (which have been illustrated as flat out lies on numerous occasions) plays the cards you do.

You can trust whatever you want. I know for a fact that you couldn't provide me with even the slightest semblance of an objective opinion of any scout's body of work. You'll hang your hat on it though because it sounds good to you.

 

[charliolemieux]

So you don't care that we've finished bottom 10 four years in a row and still (according to professional nhl scouts) have pathetic prospects, one player (reilly) notwithstanding.

What would have to happen for you to not support Burke?
Burke's created a lousy team that finished 5th last, and has lousy prospects ranked 20th by professional nhl scouts.

I don' think there's anything that can happen. No matter what happens, no matter what the evidence, facts, opinions, rankings, standings... none of it matters.
You "like" Burke. The end.

This isn't a Burke discussion thread. You want to discuss him, fine go make a new thread if the mods let you. I'm not going to derail another thread trying to deal with your sideways scattered line of thought.


I don't think our prospects are pathetic.
But I am not as negative a person as you are.

 

[charliolemieux]

So to help you say what you want to say but refuse to:

"I want to discuss anything that allows me to bash Burke and want nothing to do with anything that portrays him in a positive light".

It's really not that hard.

That is a perfectly accurate description. Unfortunately it is not unique around here.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

No, I'm rather clearly stating what everyone knows: you, like a handful of others, refuse to come here and discuss merits, rather you choose to play a schtick whereby you either ignore anything positive or try to make it a negative and invariably turn every thread into the exact same discussion. It becomes even more boggling that someone who makes the statements you so regularly do (which have been illustrated as flat out lies on numerous occasions) plays the cards you do.

You can trust whatever you want. I know for a fact that you couldn't provide me with even the slightest semblance of an objective opinion of any scout's body of work. You'll hang your hat on it though because it sounds good to you.

So now, in your attempts to defend Burke, you're trying to suggest that NHL scouts aren't professional and are not good at their jobs.
This is a new low.

I do not know the ins and outs about being a professional scout.
I also don't know the ins and outs about being a professional surgeon.
But if I need surgery... I'm going to listen to the opinions of surgeons, not "eyeball on the internet".

And if I'm interested in nhl prospects, I'm going to listen to professional nhl scouts, not "eyeball on the internet".

It's just common sense.

Have you noticed that I don't need to resort to all the spin and sillyness that you and your ilk resort to?
When i say that Burke has created a terrible team... I don't need spin and lies... I simply say "5th last. Finishing 5th last is terrible".

When I say our prospects are utterly mediocre, I don't need spin and lies... I simply point to a list created by professional nhl scouts.

There's a VERY GOOD REASON why you need spin and sillyness to try and prove your opinion and I don't.
It's because my opinion is correct and based on facts and your opinion is incorrect and based on delusion.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

So our prospects are really better than Detroits?

THN says they are.

I dare you to go post a thread on the Main boards that the HF ratings are BS and the Leafs have better prospects than Detroit.

I dare you.

NO your choice is to believe HF which ranks DET at 10th or THN which ranks DET 21st.


If you say it is THN, then I think you should make a thread on the main boards as to how Toronto's prospects are better than Detroits.

If you think THN's ranking is the right one then post the thread on the main boards.

Should he also make one about how 19 teams have better prospects according to THN, or about the 29th-ranked team has better prospects than the 30th one?

Both of you have expressed your opinions and most of us get it...

 

[charliolemieux]

It's just common sense.

Well that's something new.

When i say that Burke has created a terrible team... I don't need spin and lies... I simply say "5th last. Finishing 5th last is terrible".

And if Toronto finished 10th, you would be crying that we didn't tank to get a top draft pick.

When I say our prospects are utterly mediocre, I don't need spin and lies... I simply point to a list created by professional nhl scouts.

YEs Rielly the mediocre prospect.

There's a VERY GOOD REASON why you need spin and sillyness to try and prove your opinion and I don't.

I spin because when I'm dizzy the stars look like streaks of light.

 

[charliolemieux]

Should he also make one about how 19 teams have better prospects according to THN, or about the 29th-ranked team has better prospects than the 30th one?

Nope. Just that Toronto has better prospects than Detroit will do nicely.

I don't care where we are ranked.

Oh and by the way THN ranked DET 21st with Smith and Nyquist and Tatar.
Toronto was 20th with no Kadri or Gardiner.

Both of you have expressed your opinions and most of us get it...

Key word in there is most, because there is obvioulsy a few who just refuse to clue in.

 

[Bomber0104]

Key word in there is most, because there is obvioulsy a few who just refuse to clue in.

Are you talking about yourself Mr. Carlo I know more than professional scouts Lemieux?

 

[charliolemieux]

Are you talking about yourself Mr. Carlo I know more than professional scouts Lemieux?

You could atleast get the name right when it is right there beside my post.

And Ya I am talking about myself because I cannot understand my own oppinion.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Are you talking about yourself Mr. Carlo I know more than professional scouts Lemieux?

When did he say he knew more?

 

[Bomber0104]

You could atleast get the name right when it is right there beside my post.

And Ya I am talking about myself because I cannot understand my own oppinion.

Sorry Charles. After going through the past two Hockeys Future threads your opinion is that you solemnly dont care about the expert opinion of a consensus of professional scouts in an attempt to con others into thinking the Leafs have better prospects than they actually do because that would be the only possible hope the management team of Burke and Nonis have to fall back on since they have made the Leafs the laughing stock of the league. Which of course is completely absurd and everyone reading can see how bad the Observor is cornering you into a ridiculous position.

Go ahead everyone. Read this thread. Pretty obvious that some people want to live in lalaland and ignore the truth of how bad Burke has ****ed up this franchise since joining.

 

[charliolemieux]

When did he say he knew more?

Just let it go man. You might as well drop an engine block on your skull.

Did you know the Wild were #1 in HF and #7 in THN? And EDM was 4th? in HF and 1st in THN?

Now to me that is interesting.

ANd THN was really high on Granlund , and had Dumba as the #3 prospect. NOW I wonder if the recent fall off of Dumba,(slow start and not making team Canada) would lower Minny's ranking even more.

On the other side if Yakupov is enough to keep EDM at the #1 spot then I would like to see if Rielly's good start and rave reviews has improved the Leafs ranking any?