Pre-Game Talk: Leafs @ Penguins Dec 9th, 7pm EST HNIC

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Is there something wrong with our PP? Last time I checked it was pretty damn good for quite some time.

Always focusing on the negative.

complacency is the enemy of success. I want the Leafs to be the best team in the league, sue me

 

[Mugzy97]

complacency is the enemy of success. I want the Leafs to be the best team in the league, sue me

I think we all do and expectations are high.

Patience is key.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

For sure they can play better but if you look at that oilers game score adjusted we were the better team and had a lot more high dancer chances.

The oilers just had a ***** when they were trailing because their season was on the line, we’ve seen desperate teams take it to teams all the time.

true but it's not fun to sit back and let a weak team like Edmonton take it to you for 40 minutes. I think Leafs finally have enough skill to be a contending team starting this year and continuing for the foreseeable future. let's see what they do with it

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I think we all do and expectations are high.

Patience is key.

there's a difference between being patient and thinking Babcock is beyond reproach. I am reasonably happy with where the team is, but there's still room to criticize some of his decisions (among other aspects of the team)

 

[Mugzy97]

there's a difference between being patient and thinking Babcock is beyond reproach. I am reasonably happy with where the team is, but there's still room to criticize some of his decisions (among other aspects of the team)

I agree with you. I’ve mentioned I’d like to see Matthews tried with a new LW, and I think Babcock could at least TRY it... but I still think he’s a great coach and has brought us a long way, and what he’s doing seems to be working. He can’t control when our team plays bad, but he definitely enforces hard work all the time to try to bring the effort level up consistently.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I agree with you. I’ve mentioned I’d like to see Matthews tried with a new LW, and I think Babcock could at least TRY it... but I still think he’s a great coach and has brought us a long way, and what he’s doing seems to be working. He can’t control when our team plays bad, but he definitely enforces hard work all the time to try to bring the effort level up consistently.

the thing with Babcock is if he is (rightfully) held to a higher standard. He's an elite coach and so I think it's fair to expect him to make decisions that reflect that, but he doesn't always. It doesn't make him a bad coach obviously though

 

[Mugzy97]

the thing with Babcock is if he is (rightfully) held to a higher standard. He's an elite coach and so I think it's fair to expect him to make decisions that reflect that, but he doesn't always. It doesn't make him a bad coach obviously though

True, overall I just think it’s silly to pretend that the team would magically play better as soon as Babs reconfigures the lines. If the team plays bad, they play bad, regardless of the lines.

Stating he is a bad coach because of his lines is just wrong. We all (should) know that there’s much more to coaching then choosing the lineup.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

True, overall I just think it’s silly to pretend that the team would magically play better as soon as Babs reconfigures the lines. If the team plays bad, they play bad, regardless of the lines.

Stating he is a bad coach because of his lines is just wrong. We all (should) know that there’s much more to coaching then choosing the lineup.

to me it's not so much about players playing better, but about maximizing our players' output in terms of results. For example, if Nylander is creating numerous chances for his linemates in a game, I'd rather those linemates be Matthews and JVR rather than Martin and Moore because we're more likely to see those plays rewarded on the scoreboard

 

[supermann_98]

franky corrado is going to look like bobby orr in this game.

It must be a long time since you watched Corrado play

 

[Pi]

Carrick is not an option on D?

Carrick is just not a player that Babcock trusts despite evidence of the contrary. Look at the heat map of shots he gives up vs the heat map of shots Polak gives up.

It normally wouldn't matter if a guy like Carrick is in the pressbox because I don't think he's more than a bottom pairing D but when he's replaced with a guy like Polak, it makes a difference.

I know Polak has some good numbers in XG% models for D but I barely trust XG models for forwards let alone for D.

Patience is required...soon we will have Dermott and Liljegren on this team. If Liljegren can be a Rielly type player, we've hit the jackpot. Dermott is being groomed for a top four role as well and is sound defensively.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Carrick is just not a player that Babcock trusts despite evidence of the contrary. Look at the heat map of shots he gives up vs the heat map of shots Polak gives up.

It normally wouldn't matter if a guy like Carrick is in the pressbox because I don't think he's more than a bottom pairing D but when he's replaced with a guy like Polak, it makes a difference.

I know Polak has some good numbers in XG% models for D but I barely trust XG models for forwards let alone for D.

Patience is required...soon we will have Dermott and Liljegren on this team. If Liljegren can be a Rielly type player, we've hit the jackpot. Dermott is being groomed for a top four role as well and is sound defensively.

Holl might be the most reliable #6 D option that we have atm. Not that we'll ever know

 

[Apotheosis]

I always love the "oh we're winning so immune to all criticism" idea. No, anything can be criticized. We're winning games right now because in our last 11 games, Andersen has allowed 2 or fewer goals in 9 of those games. We're not dictating play or playing anywhere near the speed that the team showed at the beginning of the year. We still have two grinders playing with our best offensive player with evidence to prove they BRING down his possession stats, we still have our other two best offensive players up and down the line up with no solidarity on a line up (Marner and Nylander both looked great beside Matthews yet neither is playing with him) and we're being carried by one singular defensive pairing while the other two on most nights look like tire fires. You can criticize. This kind of winning isn't sustainable. I want this team to utterly dominate for long stretches while playing attractive hockey. Not senselessly throwing the puck out of the zone, hoping for the best and hoping our goalie stands on their head every night.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Oddly expecting a win here. Hopefully we can start on just once, if so we have a good shot.

 

[egd27]

More like the further a player gets from the lineup the greater the skill of his lesser replacement .Do you really think Moore out played him ? figure it out bud .

Around this place the guys not playing are always better than the guys playing.

Holland
Corrado
Leipsec
Leivo
Dermott
Pickard
Fehr

When Carrick's in, the board wants Polak
When Polak's in the board would prefer Marancin
When Marancin's in the board wants Carrick back

and on and on.........think I've figured it out pretty well "bud" .....lol

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Oddly expecting a win here. Hopefully we can start on just once, if so we have a good shot.

Why would it be odd to get a win?

 

[egd27]

we looked terrible against the Oilers after the first period. and if you go back a game even further we were dreadful against Carolina. Overall this team could be a lot better

How so? I mean from reading posts of the very knowledgeable Leaf fans,

Bozak sucks
Komarov sucks
Martin sucks
Moore sucks
Hyman has no offense
JVR has no defence

So that's 1/2 of our 12 forwards

Polak sucks
Gardiner is brain dead
Rielly is lousy in our end

So that's 1/2 the defense

Andersen is either god like or a sieve depending on the GDT
McBackup sucks

Oh yeah, the coach can't fill out an optimal line up card to save his life.

So all in all it's pretty remarkable they are where they are.

 

[Superstar]

Oh yeah, the coach can't fill out an optimal line up card to save his life.

So all in all it's pretty remarkable they are where they are.

Lots of Babcock bashing around here...folks just need to stand back and look at the big picture...he coached this team to the playoffs last year with a bunch of rookies on the roster...how many of us gave the Leafs a chance of making the playoffs last year? And almost pushed Washington to the brink with every game decided by 1 goal (5 OT games), when many didn't give us a chance...and this year, we're 18-10-1 past the 1/3 mark of the season...but yeah, Babcock clearly doesn't know his lines, but some folks posting on these forums do. One more thing: our core is young and getting better.

 

[Suntouchable13]

How so? I mean from reading posts of the very knowledgeable Leaf fans,

Bozak sucks
Komarov sucks
Martin sucks
Moore sucks
Hyman has no offense
JVR has no defence

So that's 1/2 of our 12 forwards

Polak sucks
Gardiner is brain dead
Rielly is lousy in our end

So that's 1/2 the defense

Andersen is either god like or a sieve depending on the GDT
McBackup sucks

Oh yeah, the coach can't fill out an optimal line up card to save his life.

So all in all it's pretty remarkable they are where they are.

So are you saying that none of that is true? I think it is actually remarkable this team has many wins at it has, quite frankly. I'll take it, but there are still lots of room for improvement.

 

[96]

How so? I mean from reading posts of the very knowledgeable Leaf fans,

Bozak sucks
Komarov sucks
Martin sucks
Moore sucks
Hyman has no offense
JVR has no defence

So that's 1/2 of our 12 forwards

Polak sucks
Gardiner is brain dead
Rielly is lousy in our end

So that's 1/2 the defense

Andersen is either god like or a sieve depending on the GDT
McBackup sucks

Oh yeah, the coach can't fill out an optimal line up card to save his life.

So all in all it's pretty remarkable they are where they are.

Nah bro

bozak needs a change of scenery to be better and so we do, he doesn't really fit in anymore. Komarov has no offensive skills anymore, his spot can go to Kapanen/Leivo/Johnsson.... And Jack Gardiner is the most stupid good player I've ever seen in my years, if I was GM I'd try to replace him with a similar valued defensive guy but idc if Shanny and co. want to keep him

but yea people on here are always saying dumb shit about every player... LOL @ the Oct Andersen talks, I was tellin people he's still a star... TBH I thought it was embarrassing, just like the Marner/Nylander/JVR hate. You guys need to chill we get roasted on the mainboards because of you

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Andersen in vs Pens Saturday
McBackup in vs Oilers Sunday.

Part of me wants the opposite just because I really want to beat the pissy Oilers fans on Sunday.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

How so? I mean from reading posts of the very knowledgeable Leaf fans,

Bozak sucks
Komarov sucks
Martin sucks
Moore sucks
Hyman has no offense
JVR has no defence

So that's 1/2 of our 12 forwards

Polak sucks
Gardiner is brain dead
Rielly is lousy in our end

So that's 1/2 the defense

Andersen is either god like or a sieve depending on the GDT
McBackup sucks

Oh yeah, the coach can't fill out an optimal line up card to save his life.

So all in all it's pretty remarkable they are where they are.

i have no clue what your point is honestly

 

[crump]

OK it's time for all three of MNM to explode...we need a 8-0 game to kick start some offense.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Why would it be odd to get a win?

I'd consider Pittsburgh to be a better team than us. When facing better teams I usually hope we win. I only really expect to win when we face teams much more inferior. Just a weird feeling, but I think we win this game.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Lots of Babcock bashing around here...folks just need to stand back and look at the big picture...he coached this team to the playoffs last year with a bunch of rookies on the roster...how many of us gave the Leafs a chance of making the playoffs last year? And almost pushed Washington to the brink with every game decided by 1 goal (5 OT games), when many didn't give us a chance...and this year, we're 18-10-1 past the 1/3 mark of the season...but yeah, Babcock clearly doesn't know his lines, but some folks posting on these forums do. One more thing: our core is young and getting better.

Not denying your point as mosT of it is correct, but Babcock also coached the team to a last place finish as well if you forgot. Varibles like the coach and his decision making stayed the same, what changed? Matthews, Nylander, Brown, Marner, Zaitsev and ..... Hyman.

 

[BTP]

Expecting a win tonight with no Murray in net.