Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

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All Mod Cons

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Taking your time and playing it safe when he had a month and a half before NMCs on the core kicked in and an expiring Keefe was a misread of what the team needed. We needed someone chasing glory at all costs, not prioritizing how long they can get MLSE to pay them.
You're asking for a GM to do something that hardly any GMs have ever done. You don't just fire your coach on day 1.

Chasing glory at all costs have gotten us where we are now. Hardly any depth, not much in the line of prospects that can help out the heavy lifting, chucking away God knows how many draft picks, amd extremely little to show for it.
 

Confucius

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Leafs have so many offensive weapons and yet so often they can't score when they need it most. I don't get it.
Well I think Both Mathews and William scored when we needed it in the 1st 2 games. Alas they won’t come through every game though. Who does?
 

Suntouchable13

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Well I think Both Mathews and William scored when we needed it in the 1st 2 games. Alas they won’t come through every game though. Who does?

It’s funny that you don’t see a problem with such a top heavy team. If the core 4 doesn’t score, then nobody else is capable? Great team, eh.
 

myleafs

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Def don’t think it’s all on him, I just think he’s going to fall on the axe and will be the first piece gone if things go to shit
Cant we just try to spread out the double digit millionaires and let them earn their pay with lesser players? Why does a 11+ milly player need another 11+ player to be effective? marner would be a lot more valuable playing with the likes of Domi, Minten Knies as he has proven to make those around him better. Matthews doesnt need him to be who he is.
 

francis246

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Cant we just try to spread out the double digit millionaires and let them earn their pay with lesser players? Why does a 11+ milly player need another 11+ player to be effective? marner would be a lot more valuable playing with the likes of Domi, Minten Knies as he has proven to make those around him better. Matthews doesnt need him to be who he is.

Doesn’t keefe make those decisions? Hence why I think he’s getting canned sometime soon. It’s on the coach to figure out the right line combinations
 
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myleafs

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A lot of passengers right now. The fourth line is god awful and starting to be a big problem, other teams are exploiting that line so badly. When the top 4 players aren't completely carrying the offence, they need the secondary players to do something... anything. Samsonov needs to be much better too.

It's very early so there's plenty of time. I ain't worried too much, but they need to adjust. I'd look at re-calling Holmberg, send Minten back to the WHL and call-up McMann instead of Benoit. Give Reaves games off if he's not going to do his job, he can't play for shit. He can still do his shtick in the room if he wants, play the music too... but please for the love of god stop playing him every game.
If the bottom 2 lines are only going to get 10 min or less then good luck. Very difficult to feel part of it and be in a groove when you only play that much. Play those guys more and lets see what we really got. This team as much as Tre doesnt want to acknowledge it is still all about the core 4 and not the greater good of the team as he says it is.

Doesn’t keefe make those decisions? Hence why I think he’s getting canned sometime soon. It’s on the coach to figure out the right line combinations
I forgot to add that part but yes its on Keefe to figure it out and think outside his boxed in brain.
 
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myleafs

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There seems to be a lot of fingers pointing at Coach Keefe. He is not even 1% of the issue with this club. The players like him, and his structure is good. If you look at the goaltending and the Defense of the team, you can’t expect a Honda Civic to perform like a Lamborghini Aventador SVJ. The goaltending between Samsonov and woll are amongst the very worst in the league. Washington did not let a young goalie like Samsonov walk for nothing, they knew he was a plug. He is not even a back up.

The forwards are also overrated. Why is it that every game, The opposing teams goalie has a career Vezina trophy winning night? Maybe it’s time to start looking at those forwards, and realizing that Toronto fans have overrated them. You never see a Samsonov stand on his head and steal a game against a good team, But night in night out opposing teams do this to the leafs. I don’t know, I think it’s time people start seeing this team for what it really is.
Which players like him? The ones who get tons of ice time, not held accountable? how does Domi or Reaves or any of the new guys feel about Keefe. We got a glimpse of what Oreilly thought and it wasnt very positive. I fear Keefe is in that place where he only knows one way to coach these guys and thats pretty much give the top guys as much ice time as possible and hope it works out and well we know how that turns out.
 
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Blanche Blanche

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Doesn’t keefe make those decisions? Hence why I think he’s getting canned sometime soon. It’s on the coach to figure out the right line combinations

All the coaches seem to know Keefes issues and or flaws.

He’s massively out coached. Guys doing checkers while most coaches are doing chess.

Guy loses Montreal and CBJ series with a way superior team. Myopic I’m back to back losses with Bolts.

The best army in the world still gets it’s ass kicked with a crappy General.

Tre just didn’t want to rock the boat too much, but no way Keefe is staying…
Guys need a new voice.
 

myleafs

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It is early, so you have to let this play out at least 10 games before its judged who should go and what changes should be made.

One thing I have noticed is this team gets in trouble more than most teams when the D-men can't control the puck behind the net, they lose battles for loose pucks, they get the puck deep in their own end and just dribble it up the boards where an opponent is usually waiting for it..etc.

I've had some days off from work and watched a couple Ottawa games. I have watched all of Buffalo's games. I watched Boson-Chicago in addition to the Leaf games. No one else I have seen has a bigger problem with their D-men controlling and moving the puck out of their own end than the Leafs.

This D-unit just isn't that good in their own end of controlling the puck. I'm not sure how that changes.

Ultimately, this team wins they your D-unit plays that way (that is who they are), cost you 1-2 goals per game and your offense scores more. That is is. This is the team and that is how they win. Your goaltending might be decent but it isn't good enough to cover up for a below-average D-unit. (you aren't going to get a performance like 'peak' Cujo...and the 1999 version of Dominik Hasek is not walking through that door))

When your offense is a no-show (or a 'little show') you likely are going to have a tough time losing. This team just doesn't have it in them to win on a regular basis by 'shutting down' the opposing team.

Outscore the other team. Hold your breath or look away whenever there is a loose puck in your own end behind the net or in the corners. That is how they are going to win.
Then I d rather we just go full tilt offense and force teams to trade with us. Again, as in the last several yrs...what is this teams identity? Whats the purpose of each player? The 3rd and 4th line look like they have no idea what they are supposed to be achieving. This is on Keefe imo.
 
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francis246

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Which players like him? The ones who get tons of ice time, not held accountable? how does Domi or Reaves or any of the new guys feel about Keefe. We got a glimpse of what Oreilly thought and it wasnt very positive. I fear Keefe is in that place where he only knows one way to coach these guys and thats pretty much give the top guys as much ice time as possible and hope it works out and well we know how that turns out.

I think the problem Dubas and Keefe have made (and it’s still a problem now) is that the only players that matter are the big 4. They need to make a lot of tactical changes to get more guys involved. It’s been the topic of discussion all day in Toronto media. You can’t play Knies and Domi 11 and 13 minutes respectfully and no PP time or 6 on 5 time and expect them to be difference makers.

We need our depth players getting extended looks. PP1 cannot be out there for 2 whole minutes. One of the things I loved about Babcock (and there wasn’t a lot) was his 1 minute power play rule. Which ever unit starts they got 1 minute to make something happen, after that minute the next unit is on no matter what. Keeps everyone fresh and engaged. Keefe panics too much if Knies or Domi or Bertuzzi or Minten make one little mistake.

All the coaches seem to know Keefes issues and or flaws.

He’s massively out coached. Guys doing checkers while most coaches are doing chess.

Guy loses Montreal and CBJ series with a way superior team. Myopic I’m back to back losses with Bolts.

The best army in the world still gets it’s ass kicked with a crappy General.

Tre just didn’t want to rock the boat too much, but no way Keefe is staying…
Guys need a new voice.
100% he’s been outclassed every year in the playoffs. I said it earlier but it feels very similar to babcock getting canned. Shanny should have let Dubas fire Babcock in the summer when he wanted to. Shanny should have cleaned house once he decided Dubas was no longer going to be GM.
 

Fogelhund

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Sep 15, 2007
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Get rid of janrok and kampf
Sign Kane

Bertuzzi matthews kane
Knies nylander marner
Robertson Tavares domi
Gregor holmberg reaves
I think if Kane wants to come here, we wouldn't need to get rid of Kampf. I'd also play Kane and Domi together... they already have chemistry. Make them the third line
 
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myleafs

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I actually liked the Reaves signing, I understand the idea behind it, but when he is not hitting/fighting/yapping he is useless! What happened last night? Why wasn’t he more engaged? Tkachuk was running around not scared one iota of Reaves.
Yea that was a little weird....I was surprised to see the panthers just continue to manhandle us like last yr and just assumed Reaves or Domi or anyone would take a shot at one of their guys....and it didnt happen...no big hit...nothing though Mccabe had a couple nice hits. Where was the freight train Reaves we saw from game 1 and 2?
 

Hoverhand

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I think if Kane wants to come here, we wouldn't need to get rid of Kampf. I'd also play Kane and Domi together... they already have chemistry. Make them the third line
Kampf is definitely going to be Treliving's Kerfoot.

for the next 4 seasons fans are going to have mock lineups on the go where the cap only works if "we get rid of Kampf" and he'll just continue to stick around.
 
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ULF_55

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There is a difference between blaming Lou for Marleau/Zaitsev or having absolutely terrible drafting, and blaming Dubas for the signings of Bertuzzi/Domi/Klingberg/Reaves/etc...

If you don't like our prospect pool currently (people seem to), or some long-term signings, sure, but the issue has been the new guys so far, not the signings Dubas has had.

We can agree that it is too early to jump to conclusions though and blaming anyone at this point is just dumb.

I still think Domi/Bert turn it around at least, and same with Kampf.

Reaves/Klingberg just maybe this bad (they have a long track record of being bad), but even them, let's see.

He doesn't.

Marner/Matthews is one of the best duos in the NHL, people just start making this stuff up to make the coach look weak for some reason.

It isn't like Keefe had to make a retraction after he called them out ...
 

LaPlante94

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Apr 12, 2011
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Our top 6 is the only reason we aren't 0-4 lol
I mean you say this like they aren't paid to win us games. You whine when our depth can't score when we give skilled guys a chance down there. You whine even more when they bring a new element to the bottom 6 and try something new and it hasn't gone crazy with goals in their 1st 4 games playing on a new team. We don't even have our set lineup playing yet because Minten most likely made the team for cap reasons even though he had a good camp. We can give all this credit to our top 6 because you look at their xGF% numbers and all that crap but it's still the same thing with them. Play Chicago who is a lottery projected team and was also playing a goalie who has won 2 NHL games in his career and that top line of Matthews and Marner gets shut out. Play a Florida team missing 3 key players and a garbage goalie in Bobrovsky like some on here say and they get shut out again except Marner scoring that PP goal later in the game.
 

saffronleaf

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May 17, 2011
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This is a problem, why tf are we building a team to beat one team

We did this last year too by building a team that could specifically beat the lightning, then get dummied by the panthers.

We need to build a team that can match anyone, whether it’s an kffensive team or defensive team. Whether they play in the rush or cycling we need to be able to defend and counter nkt just game plan for one style

In this case we can't even beat that one team the team is supposedly designed to beat lmao
 
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myleafs

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These players don't deter jack shit. Tkachuk doesn't care about a player that can't skate or play more than 8 minutes. Even Corey Perry doesn't care. The idea and dream of it was never going to be something that happens in real life. Reaves isn't going to fight or throw monster hits every game, especially if he can't catch anyone with his terrible skating. It's been said so many times, but people keep burying their heads in the sand about it until they can't stand it anymore. It's different this time, for sure!
Once again, it all comes down to the core 4 and how they go is how the leafs go which so far has not been a recipe for playoff success. None of our guys are gut check lay it all on the line kind of players though Matthews is bringing more of that this yr so far. Everything relies on the core 4 forwards which imo is too much to ask or expect. Watching Vegas last couple games and last yr shows me just how far we are from truly competing for the big prize and how far from a TEAM we are. That is a team to emulate even if it means hurting some millionaire feelings while doing it. Problem is that I dont think the leafs brass see any concern or reason to change things up.
 

myleafs

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1/2 Leafs total salary Cap is invested in just 4 forwards. NO NHL team comes close to that faulty Cap management and team building strategy.

Because of the limited $$ cap available to build a Cup competitive around them.

Leafs Dcore finished 29th last year in goals scored from the Defense Core, and while the Leafs added Klingberg in an attempt to address that its still a black hole offensively.

When those 4 forwards don't score the Leafs will struggle to win games because they consume the most TOI/g and that limits the surrounding cast even more.

This is a broken record and will not be fixed until the Leafs get over the "We can and We will" IMO
But I keep reading in here that we cant trade 34 as he is top 2 player in the league and then we cant trade Nylander he is too good, then we cant trade a 100 pt player in Marner....so at what point do we shift gears from paying 4 forwards 50% of the cap?

People are talking abut the extra cap money going to these 3 players then re-signing Tavares for 5-6 milly so basically just keep doing the same thing because you know those guys are good and we might lose a trade. I am not seeing any way out of the pickle we are in as long as we keep going down the same path. How can we upgrade our D and goalie position along with some quality depth pieces? Im struggling to see a way out of the corner we are in without a fully different view from the top.

I really want to believe this is the year they put it all together but if anything i think as a team we have regressed and I think that Keefe hasnt learned as much as we need him to learn. i would be very curious to see a coach like Cassidy at the helm of this squad.
 
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centipede2233

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Gonna be honest, barely bearing a Montreal team in a shootout, losing in regulation to Chicago and losing to a Florida team without their best 2 d might not be making the playoffs….but hey atleast that should be the final nail in the coffin on the keefe experiment
 

myleafs

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Over/Under 25 games before Keefe is let go and Boucher takes over?

It was pretty obvious that there needed to be some change after last year. Changing the GM which may not even have been intentional was not going to cut it. If they were not going to change the players, then the coach seemed like the logical next step.

I don't have a problem with the players BT signed - Kleinberg, Bertuzzi, Domi, Reaves but I think a new coach is needed to properly integrate them and not try to shuffle deck chairs around the big 4.
Honest question....what do you think Boucher would do differently if he were coach? Does he have a style he leans towards?
 

34

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Which players like him? The ones who get tons of ice time, not held accountable? how does Domi or Reaves or any of the new guys feel about Keefe. We got a glimpse of what Oreilly thought and it wasnt very positive. I fear Keefe is in that place where he only knows one way to coach these guys and thats pretty much give the top guys as much ice time as possible and hope it works out and well we know how that turns out.
O’Reilly is just a cry baby because he was 5th in the pecking order.
 
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