Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose in OT: Rule 63.2 Yes it was a penalty

[coolasprICE]

It was an odd call against Bernier, however, how often do you see a goalie cover the puck that far away from his crease? The answer is never because it's not allowed. Most goalies simply just knock the puck away and skate back to their crease. Oh well, lesson learned. Fun game to watch but both teams were just awful. My god the east looks terrible this year.

this sums it up.

 

[ULF_55]

Officials
Referees: Brad Watson, Kyle Rehman
Linesmen: Mike Cvik, Don Henderson

They didn't lose the game though.

Don't give opportunities to call a penalty.

 

[MastuhNinks]

Playing the puck would've been a dangerous play for both Bernier and the Montreal player pursuing the puck. Remember this?


Not only was Megna injured but I believe Bernier sat a few games after that.

Ironically I believe this was during the last game where the Leafs got shafted by the refs.

 

[paulhiggins]

@Carey Price: March 22, keep your head up. You are going to get bumped. Payback for last night and for 2011.

 

[hoglund]

the Bernier penalty was (by the rules) a penalty, rarely called, but the correct one, the Leafs complaint should be the Gleason interference call (which led to the tying goal) that was a bad call because the Habs player just passed the puck and was hit, interference is when you hit someone without the puck or hasn't just played the puck, that wasn't interference, that was a blown call.

 

[Mess]

The real reason we wont make the playoffs is becaused of the love feast with BurnYay. He cost us another game, yet once again just sweeped under the rug

Bernier has a .924 SV% and Ben Bishop the NHL regular leader has a .933 sv%.

If Bernier raised his sv% a few points and was #1 in sv% would he still be the problem?

Save % = Saves/Shots.

Bernier is making saves at a rate of most NHL goalies then I suggest the other component of sv% is the real problem.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Seriously? He was 51% the last 21 games.
And has 2 bad days on draw and overreaction time
I agree he needs to work still but now everyone says he is terrible

You keep bringing up the last 21 games, why? It's all fine and dandy that he had above a 50%, but the fact of the matter is that overall he is still below 45% and he's been below 45% the past 3/5 games. Not to mention he was only 15% last night which is completely unacceptable.

 

[trickster]

4 powerplays

Habs had 4 powerplays in the third/ot.

Can't do much about the delay of games... the interference on Gleason was weak. The tripping on Kadri was weak. The decision to call diving on JVR was weak.

This is par for the course in Montreal.

 

[The Blue Devil]

How long this Bolland is gonna take? He was supposed to be back in Jan and it's march since he is not even 70% in playable condition? What a waste!

Where did you hear this? He was slated to be out a minimum of 4 months. Coming back a little before the Olympics would've been the best case scenario. Rushing an injury like his would only make it worse.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I find it insane that its actually OK to come out as a goalie and take out a players legs and potentially injuring that player if he hits the boards hard enough,as long as he gets the puck first but its not ok to come out and cover it where no player got hurt. The NHL has rules like that, that should be revised. Such as the breakaway rule where you can basically trip a player but as long as you get the puck first , its ok to send a player crashing into the boards.

I don't like complaining about refs, but some of those calls toward the end of the game that cost us are pretty bad. Oh well, onto the next game

 

[Mess]

I find it insane that its actually OK to come out as a goalie and take out a players legs and potentially injuring that player if he hits the boards hard enough,as long as he gets the puck first but its not ok to come out and cover it where no player got hurt. The NHL has rules like that, that should be revised. Such as the breakaway rule where you can basically trip a player but as long as you get the puck first , its ok to send a player crashing into the boards.

I don't like complaining about refs, but some of those calls toward the end of the game that cost us are pretty bad. Oh well, onto the next game

If a player dives and takes out a player's skates with his stick, its only a penalty if he doesn't hit the puck first.

The rule book is based on the intent of playing the puck.

If every time the opposition dumped the puck in and the goalie left the crease and dived on the puck without a penalty there would be no flow to the game. Can you imagine if it was allowed, how many goalies would go behind their own net and smother the puck to get his player a line change or stoppage of play.

 

[hoglund]

I find it insane that its actually OK to come out as a goalie and take out a players legs and potentially injuring that player if he hits the boards hard enough,as long as he gets the puck first but its not ok to come out and cover it where no player got hurt. The NHL has rules like that, that should be revised. Such as the breakaway rule where you can basically trip a player but as long as you get the puck first , its ok to send a player crashing into the boards.

I don't like complaining about refs, but some of those calls toward the end of the game that cost us are pretty bad. Oh well, onto the next game

Bernier's penalty wasn't called to prevent injuries, it was delay of game. The goalie can't cover the puck outside of the crease (although this is done often because the crease is small) , but Bernier went about 2 feet in front of the crease and slid to the face off circle. This was the right call, but poor timing for the Leafs. The wrong call was the Gleason interference.

 

[Gallagbi]

Bernier has a .924 SV% and Ben Bishop the NHL regular leader has a .933 sv%.

If Bernier raised his sv% a few points and was #1 in sv% would he still be the problem?

Save % = Saves/Shots.

Bernier is making saves at a rate of most NHL goalies then I suggest the other component of sv% is the real problem.

.10 is a pretty big jump for save%. While Bernier is having a good year, he isn't playing at an insanely high level.

 

[Suntouchable13]

.10 is a pretty big jump for save%. While Bernier is having a good year, he isn't playing at an insanely high level.

How can you play at insanely high level with this team's defence? You have to be God to be able to put up even better numbers with this team right now. With all due respect to Bishop, I don't think that he has faced the same number of shots and quality chances as Bernier.

 

[v00d00daddy]

Bernier has a .924 SV% and Ben Bishop the NHL regular leader has a .933 sv%.

If Bernier raised his sv% a few points and was #1 in sv% would he still be the problem?

Save % = Saves/Shots.

Bernier is making saves at a rate of most NHL goalies then I suggest the other component of sv% is the real problem.

I'll preface this by saying that Bernier is awesome and I think he can develop in to an elite keeper. He's one of the reasons the leafs are where they are right now…contending for home ice in the playoffs.

That being said…he has flaws. And the flaws are very frustrating because they're not technical flaws. They're attitude/approach to the game flaws.

He's ultra calm in the net. Ultra confident with his puck handling too. His confidence and calm are part of why he makes 10 bell saves so often and why he can discourage shooters by making so many difficult saves look routine.

The problem is when it turns in to over confidence. His great puck handling has led to several goals against this year. His calm makes it so that he lets soft goals in. His level of intensity has to come up from time to time.

I know he stops a great % of shots but just as a 10 bell save can give his teammates momentum and confidence, a weak goal on a brain fart or over confidence can rob his team of momentum. With a defence core like the Leafs he can't afford to let in softies. EVER.

It's frustrating because it's something totally in his control. He needs to fix this. ASAP. Goals like the ones he gave up on Thursday and last night will kill the Leafs in the playoffs.

 

[KuleminFan41]

If a player dives and takes out a player's skates with his stick, its only a penalty if he doesn't hit the puck first.

The rule book is based on the intent of playing the puck.

If every time the opposition dumped the puck in and the goalie left the crease and dived on the puck without a penalty there would be no flow to the game. Can you imagine if it was allowed, how many goalies would go behind their own net and smother the puck to get his player a line change or stoppage of play.

Completely ignored my point.This wasn't about intent to injure a player, my point is that its ok to take out a player as long as you got the puck first. You can technically blow out an opposing players knee and its "ok" as long as you got the puck first. Which, is baffling.

Bernier's penalty wasn't called to prevent injuries, it was delay of game. The goalie can't cover the puck outside of the crease (although this is done often because the crease is small) , but Bernier went about 2 feet in front of the crease and slid to the face off circle. This was the right call, but poor timing for the Leafs. The wrong call was the Gleason interference.

You aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm not complaining about the actual penalty itself, but more so that its not ok to cover the puck in that area of the ice, yet its perfectly fine if he came out and took out Briere and potentially injuring him all because he got the puck first.

 

[Gallagbi]

How can you play at insanely high level with this team's defence? You have to be God to be able to put up even better numbers with this team right now. With all due respect to Bishop, I don't think that he has faced the same number of shots and quality chances as Bernier.

Many people say Bernier is playing like a god.

 

[Gallagbi]

Completely ignored my point.This wasn't about intent to injure a player, my point is that its ok to take out a player as long as you got the puck first. You can technically blow out an opposing players knee and its "ok" as long as you got the puck first. Which, is baffling.


You aren't getting what I'm saying. I'm not complaining about the actual penalty itself, but more so that its not ok to cover the puck in that area of the ice, yet its perfectly fine if he came out and took out Briere and potentially injuring him all because he got the puck first.

That's how the NHL works, they give some leeway for hockey plays. It's illegal to flip a puck over the glass in your own, but it's legal to make a hit that ends a person's career as long as you don't charge, elbow, etc..

You have to give some leeway for hockey plays.

 

[Mess]

.10 is a pretty big jump for save%. While Bernier is having a good year, he isn't playing at an insanely high level.

Bernier is playing at a level of a top 10 NHL goalie in save %.

He was .926 before yesterday's game (5th overall) and .924 (10th) after.

Ben Bishop has played in 46 games and made 1299 saves for .933 sv%, Tuukka Rask has played 44 games and made 1241 saves and has a .926 sv%. Carey Price has played 48 games and made 1459 saves and has a .926 sv%.

Bernier has played in 46 games and made 1509 saves and has a .924 sv%.

Bernier is forced to make more saves/g and has a comparative sv% to the best in the NHL.

 

[FerrisRox]

...Then make the rule read: When the goalie goes as far as the face off dot there must be said call...As it reads now , freezing the puck outside the crease is a penalty...call it consistently...Refs are like umpires. The most important thing isn't whether they call it tight or loose...it's that they call it "consistently"...I'm talking about referees throughout the league and I'm talking in general i.e. when to call interference on dump-ins, when to call freezing the puck among others.

It is called consistently.

Multiple people in this thread have said "I've never seen it called that way before..." without stating that they likely have never seen a goalie skate out to the face-off circle and smother a puck either.

People seem to be (likely deliberately) being obtuse. If a shot is fired on a goaltender and the rebound lands outside the crease and he smothers it, that is not a penalty.

If a goaltender smothers a puck THAT IS NOT A SHOT or NOT A REBOUND of a shot outside his crease, it IS A PENALTY. If any player, goaltender or otherwise, tries to smother a puck it's a penalty. It's extremely rare to see a goaltender charge out of his crease and attempt to smother a loose puck. I can only ever recall seeing Dominik Hasek do this (and get called) and Roman Cechmanek do this (and get called.) In fact, in the case of Cechmanek, he charged out of the crease to cover a loose puck *and* took out the hard charging forward at the knees and got two penalties. A puck outside the crease that nobody has possession of, isn't a shot and isn't a rebound, for obvious reasons, can't be smothered.

 

[Future]

The real reason we wont make the playoffs is becaused of the love feast with BurnYay. He cost us another game, yet once again just sweeped under the rug

Maybe because he's arguably been a top 5 goalie in the league this season



I hope we trade Reimer just so fans like these can leave FOREVER.

 

[likeabosski]

The Leafs should trade one of Cody Franson or Jake Gardiner for a 2nd/3rd pair stay-at-home defense man who can kill penalties. I'm leaning towards trading Franson because he's 2.9 years older than Gardiner and still nothing more than a 3rd pairing PP specialist D-Man. Gardiner at least has more time on his side to develop into a better player. This summer is also Franson's last hurrah as a RFA (he'll be 27 on July 2015 but still 26 on July 2014). Now would be a good time to cash in on him.

We have too many offensive defense man (puck-carrying/point-man) and not enough stay-at-homes.

Hypothetical Leafs D Core after trade deadline

Puck-carrying/Point-Man Defenseman

Dion Phaneuf (PP-1)(PK-1)
Jake Gardiner (PP-1)
Morgan Rielly (PP-2)

Stay-at-home Defenseman
Carl Gunnarsson(PK-1)
Tim Gleason(PK-2)
Acquisition from Cody Franson Trade(PK-1/PK-2)(PP-2?)/Paul Ranger(PK-2)(PP-2)

Trade
Cody Franson for 2nd or 3rd pair stay-at-home defenseman who can play PK-1/PK-2. An asset if can play PP-2. Otherwise we have to stick one of Gunnarsson/Gleason on the PP-2 or play an extra forward as point-man.

Dion Phaneuf is two-way these days. But I have him slotted in the point-man D role because there aren't any point-men or puck-carrying D who are good enough to play alongside him on the 1st line right now. Morgan Rielly might be one day but he isn't there yet.

 

[Gallagbi]

Bernier is playing at a level of a top 10 NHL goalie in save %.

He was .926 before yesterday's game (5th overall) and .924 (10th) after.

Ben Bishop has played in 46 games and made 1299 saves for .933 sv%, Tuukka Rask has played 44 games and made 1241 saves and has a .926 sv%. Carey Price has played 48 games and made 1459 saves and has a .926 sv%.

Bernier has played in 46 games and made 1509 saves and has a .924 sv%.

Bernier is forced to make more saves/g and has a comparative sv% to the best in the NHL.

I'm well aware of where he is in the NHL for save%. The best NHL save% is .934, that's not really comparable to .924, it's actually a pretty big jump. .10 the other way and he's in the bottom 7-10 in the NHL.

Like I said earlier, he's had a good year, but he's not playing at a level far beyond other goalies. Your post seems to show that as well.

 

[Erdinger]

Maybe because he's arguably been a top 5 goalie in the league this season



I hope we trade Reimer just so fans like these can leave FOREVER.

They won't leave. Just look at the amount of people who still cry about Grabovski leaving whenever the Leafs lose.

 

[likeabosski]

Maybe because he's arguably been a top 5 goalie in the league this season



I hope we trade Reimer just so fans like these can leave FOREVER.

I don't think there are going to be many NHL teams interested in giving a starter job to James Reimer right now. So I don't see how a trade away from Toronto would benefit him.

James Reimer is ranked 42nd in TOI among NHL goalies this season. Among that sample of 42 goalies, Reimer ranks 29th in sv% but 16th in 5v5 sv%. Outside of 5v5, Reimer is ranked 36th in sv%. Reimer is weak in high-percentage shot situations (PK, 4v4, PP when the opposition catches the Leafs on a short-handed breakaway or rush).

Reimer also ranks 28th in that sample in non-5v5 shots allowed and 33rd in 5v5 shots allowed (despite being 42th in TOI). So we know that James Reimer faces more higher percentage shot situations than the average goalie. Reimer was primarily being played during a time where the Leafs were getting lots of penalties and going to overtime (4v4) a lot.

Because of that, you could make the case that looking at straight-up sv% is unfair to Reimer. If Reimer faced an average distribution of non-5v5 shots, his sv% would be better.

NHL teams who have a weak goaltender in net might give James Reimer a look for the starting post I guess. His stock isn't exactly very high right now though. Ben Scrivens has a higher stock than James Reimer at this point (the irony).

On a side note, there are some really solid goalies right now who are playing like **** (ie. Antti Niemi). Goalies are very hot and cold and unpredictable. Offering long-term contracts to goalies is just simply out of the question IMO. The St. Louis Blues are idiots for giving up as much as they did for UFA rental Ryan Miller. And a hefty, long-term contract extension could bite them in the ass if Ryan Miller regresses like so many hot goalies have before him.