Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 6-2 | Happy St. Patrick's Day I guess

[Nithoniniel]

Zaitsev didn’t play this way before he came to the NHL. He doesn’t play this way in international games. What he the coaching staff done to him? You can see the same thing starting to happen with Muzzin.

I don't think it's coaching. I just think he thrives when he's got more time on his hands, and that time gets taken away very fast at the NHL level. He was never half the NHL player compared to what he showed me in the KHL.

That was a great shift where he created his own luck... but the game is 60 minutes long...

Yeah, he was competing hard all game long.

 

[Leaf4Life]

Do offer your suggestions on the new system they should be playing. Got lots of people questioning the "system". Seems like the cool thing to do I guess.

Lol, your request is rather pointless as whatever is suggested here won't actually make it to Babcock's or anyone in the Leafs organizations ears. But nonetheless, I will address your "request" and no, it's not the "cool thing" to do. It's my opinion based on actual results. Try watching a game sometime. Or if you are watching, you simply lack sufficient hockey knowledge to understand what is actually happening.

Breakouts: Leafs are still over relying on stretch passes. Forward are literally STANDING at the blue line and our D are throwing up hail mary passes which either result in an icing or at best the forward can tip the puck down the ice and try to chase it down. This is getting very predictable and the opposition D are stepping up to break up the stretch pass. Similarly, our D needs to recognize this and circle back rather than forcing a pass that results in a turnover with our forwards standing at the blue line. See Sens 3rd goal.

Defensive zone entry: Leafs D are backing up way too much giving up easy zone entries to the opposition. They are simply too passive and afraid of getting beat 1 on 1. Zaitsev in particular just backs way off even when he has an opportunity to step up and break up the play before the other team gets into our zone.

Defensive zone: Need better box outs and less watching the puck carrier. Leafs seem mesmerized at watching the puck leaving open looks for players behind them. Good example of this was Senators the first scoring chance last night. Rielly was puck watching and meanwhile Sen was wide open behind him and had a couple wacks but luckily Sparks made the saves.

I could go on and on but frankly, it's not worth my time. Figure it out for yourself.

 

[MyBudJT]

Yeah, he was competing hard all game long.

I wouldn't say 'all game long', but it certainly was a good game for him. I wasn't suggesting he played poorly or anything like that...

1) The poster sited ONE play to state the player has compete... Thats not how you evaluate compete level.
2) I wouldn't even state one game is enough to state a player has compete... A player who competes does it game in and game out (see Zach Hyman).
3) You got to question a players psyche and compete level when they play all 'buddy buddy' to the opponents.... You simply don't see this from elite top-end players. Pastrnak even publically stated he stopped seeing Nylander pre-games because it made him play better .... coincidentally, hwen Pastrnak said that, his play skyrocketed, and Nylanders has remained rather "stagnant".

I also don't want to single out one player... I not only question Nylander's compete level.... there are several players I'm concerned about on this team (Matthews, Kapanen, Johnsson, Marleau, Zaitsev, Gardiner.... etc).

 

[TakeTheBody]

wow lol the back ups confidence???? he is supposed to be an NHL goalie, just stop the puck its his job, he should be waived, plus calling out team mates, he is in no position to do that he had one job and that was to come in and stop pucks he has failed..... next, I suppose babs should play the back up more, but he has no trust in him, just like most of the fans guy is a sieve, lol he didn't even deserve the back up position he sucked in the pre season too, just a gift from dubas, Sparks is a failure

I would agree Sparks isn't that great all. I strongly disagree that Babs should play the back up more regardless who it is. I don't care how much confidence Babs has in the backup. The playoffs are what it's all about. This team will make the playoffs EVEN with Babs coaching. Speaking of confidence how much confidence does the team have in their coach? It's lessening every damn day. In the playoffs you need your starting goalie rested and ready. Under your scenario it's like racing a horse every week before the Kentucky Derby then on Derby Day wondering why he comes up empty.

 

[The Apologist]

Agree with most of this, but the Leafs get away with a lot of things.

Of course they do. All teams do. But hockey is a game of perception. I personally think they get the short end of the stick far more than most teams in their position.

 

[Jozay]

We need another Patrick Marleau pep talk to get these guys to re-focus. Thats pretty much where his value rests now.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

Gramps here. That's 4 games in a row of zero defense. Remember folks what I told you before year started. We needed 2-3 defensive dmen with some size and speed who play on the edge a bit.

After reading through these threads today most of you thought are depth defense were similar to what most other teams had. Clearly that opinion was and is showing every game to be very wrong. Zaitsev, OZ, Holl, Marincin are clearly either #7 or #8 types at best or more likely AHLers. Sparky is ok but he can't hold up the dyke when it is collapsing. Freddy is having a bad patch now after holding up the team for most of the season.

It is really too bad Shanny did not listen to me a month or so back when I explained to him what was needed for our Cup run. I saw Dubas on TV last night and he clearly he is distressed. Well lad keep your head up it will get better.

Skilled teams are great but hockey always has required heart and soul. And a little nastiness too. We have none of that even Muzzy looks changed from day he got here. There must be something in our systems which takes a ornery dman and makes him much more stubdued. We need to see the old Muzzy back. I think a lot of it is playing with Z who is really weak. Rielly needs a physical dman partner. Babs best thing you can do is pair the 2 together. Who cares about left and right thing. Hainsey can play with Dermott on 2nd pair. If Dermott can skate now then he needs to go back in right now. You go with those 4 guys 50 minutes a night now. We have nothing else right now which is NHL capable. The other 2 guys who get dressed and go on ice must play an ice the puck game. All of them suck. Either off glass and out or flips or slap er out. That is best they can do.

4 dmen is fine. In my day we played most games with 4 guys and a few shifts here and there for a 5th wheel. So it is really not a big deal.

Now Babs you need to shorten the bench early in games now and in playoffs. Marleau Brown and Ennis need much reduced ice time maybe 5 minutes a night. Brown exclusively on PK. Ennis almost exclusively on PP. Marleau well my mom always told me if you had nothing nice to say shutter up.

Take your top 9 guys and figure it out. Maybe Kadri to the wing with Goat and Moore. Kappy Matty and Willy. and then the big line.

Slide in Johnsson here and there with Moore. I don't know but we have too many wingers who all play same game.

This slide will end when we shorten things up and Freddy gets back to being Freddy. Freddy needs a few days off to rest so play Sparky for now. He needs a few games to get his timing back. This is what happens when you rely on 1 tender and play him too much. 1 he gets tired. and 2 your #2 gets rusty. That is all on Babs. He is entirely to blame for this situation. It was his creation. Toronto media not that hockey bright and do not know what to ask. Babs feeds them all their lunch all the time. Disgusting.

But babs has always been a fighter and he will figure out these things. Maybe a little slower than most but he will get there. I won't even get into our systems except to see a weak system will get exposed with injuries and weak goaltending.

This is going to be tough but the boys need to fight through this hard time. Go Leafs Go!

 

[Cecithepylon]

Marchand is licking his lips watching footage of zaitsev fumble the puck.

 

[Zybalto]

Marchand is licking his lips watching footage of zaitsev fumble the puck.

Zaitsev dominated the Bruins last year in the playoffs. Got burned on the rush a couple times but the Bruins got murdered trying to cycle the puck against him.

Probably why Zaitsev led all dmen in the playoffs in expected goals % relative to his teammates as the other two pairings had problems containing the Bruins forecheck.

Marchand prabably remembers this and wants no part of Zaitsev (who had the best numbers against him)and instead wants to feed on Rielly/Dermott some more.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Comparing Yashin to Nylander is selling Yashin very short. Production wise, Yashin was a legit first line center who I am pretty sure finished top 10 in points at least once.

Nylander is a 60 point winger with fantasies of him being more than that one day.

I think the comparison was more along the lines of how they felt they were worth more than their team and thus sat out for their contract negotiations. Yashin was not much of a team player, and inherently self serving.

 

[Superstar]

The Leafs used to be slump busters for opposing teams' players on scoring droughts and it's still is sadly.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The Leafs used to be slump busters for opposing teams' players on scoring droughts and it's still is sadly.

I wish the Leaf-isms that permeated this team while we were bad would be exorcised already.

 

[djdev]

If that doesnt scream coaching. I dunno what does.

If there are rotten eggs in the team, the COACH should have the audacity to bench them if they cant be motivated.

We are all born wanting to relax in a messy bed, eat whatever and avoid tough physical activity in bad weather.

A military drill captain will make you wake up no coffee, run 10K at 7AM, small breakfast, and do some more drills in the rainy weather and make it second nature.

Imagine if another squad had a bunch of guys who would occasionally not show up, run 3k instead of 10, fail drills and shys away during the crap weather? After a year?

2 years? 3??

Its the the guy in charge.
Its the military Captain.
In the NHL
Its the Head Coach

hey remember babs first year? when we sucked...but we played hard AF every night and never gave up, even though we had 0 talent. why could we play a system then and not now?

 

[Machinae]

hey remember babs first year? when we sucked...but we played hard AF every night and never gave up, even though we had 0 talent. why could we play a system then and not now?

Well, the difference is the players, no? You either work hard or you don't.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

How do you let an AHL-talent team score six on you? By making it very, very easy for them. The main thing that separates NHL from other professional leagues is that the players can execute just as well with less time, less space, against better players. It does not matter if the guys you play will spend most of their careers in the AHL, if you let them walk in and take their time to snipe it, they will. Unless they're Nylander, of course.

There's not a system issue here. We just consistently don't tie up sticks, stick with our guys, take care of the puck in dangerous areas, provide back pressure. There's about ten games left, if they can't figure this out then Boston will eat us up.

Tavares Line - Decent, but overall quiet. Tavares was not good. Marner had a few flashes. Hyman didn't Hyman.
Matthews Line - Bad defensively, good offensively. Had a ton of chances. Matthews was bombarding the net, and if Nylander didn't see goaltenders in his nightmares then this game might have looked different. Johnsson was OK. A few nifty plays, but he plays a complementary role on that line right now.
Kadri Line - Kadri was bad. Marleau was awful. Brown was abysmal. They looked like three rookies in over their heads.
Gauthier Line - Was good, while intact.

Rielly Pairing - Blurgh. On both of them. Rielly gets a plus from scoring out of pure spite though. But this pairing was bad.
Muzzin Pairing - Muzzin was OK. Zaitsev was worse, but not as bad as last night.
Marincin Pairing - Holl was good, but then he stopped being good and was awful instead. Marincin... I have no idea.

Sparks - We hung him out to dry. Again. He looked bad still. If I'd venture a guess, I'd say that Sparks is the kind of goaltender who needs to be in a flow to feel good about himself. He looked rattled tonight, way too aggressive at one point and then not nearly enough the next.

Babcock - Another game that I don't really know how to pin on Babcock. It's not the job that is the problem here, it's that the players aren't doing it. His in-game corrections were the right one. Moore up for the abysmal Brown. More ice time to the right lines. Shorten the bench and try to get a scoring threat on at all times.

Bang on in every point you make, including the Babcock comment. The thing that needs to be addressed is why the players aren’t doing it. The plays they’re screwing up on arent because they’re stupid, it must be something deeper. Have they given up on Babcock and his antiquated systems and strategies?

 

[djdev]

Well, the difference is the players, no? You either work hard or you don't.

exactly, people blame coaching but the players have to play the system, babcocks system has worked here before..now it isnt, so something is up. and im not even saying they dont work hard..im sure they do. but they certainly havent been working smart.

i really dont know what to make of it.

 

[Bomber0104]

. Exactly. I love when a poster is confronted with facts that prove them wrong, they just double down on the denial.

Blaming the coach is always the cheapest of cop-outs there is.

Babcock has had more success in pro hockey than any single one of the players he's coaching.

Continue thinking you know better though

 

[FraumBallard]

Amazing how much softer and worse defensively the team is without Kapanen. And some want to move him for cap space. These people know nothing about playoff hockey.

Please.
Kappy is really soft.
Dime a dozen.
Good riddance.

 

[Nineteen67]

hey remember babs first year? when we sucked...but we played hard AF every night and never gave up, even though we had 0 talent. why could we play a system then and not now?

That’s what so disconcerting.

 

[Nineteen67]

hey remember babs first year? when we sucked...but we played hard AF every night and never gave up, even though we had 0 talent. why could we play a system then and not now?

Well, the difference is the players, no? You either work hard or you don't.

Something has change, especially this year.

There seems to be a disconnect between management and coaching which could be permeating the team. Since Dec this has been a mediocre team.

 

[egd27]

The backtracking is hilarious.

He is one of the worst home coaches in the league throughout his entire career. Its not one year, its a decade long pattern. Babcock makes the team worse with strict line matching.

You are the one with no facts and all opinion.

You're calling out someone for lack of facts?

Home record last 5 years in Detroit .644 pts %

Home record Last 3 years in Toronto .647 pts % (I admit to leaving out the tank season for obvious reasons)

So 8 years....combined .645 pts % and you're telling us that's one of the worst home coaching records?

I await your facts, and the criteria by which are judging "worst home coaches" to back up your opinion.

 

[MSZ]

That’s what so disconcerting.

So much money involved in these guaranteed contracts in such young age is a major issue IMO. You look at Marner, he has been playing hard in his contract year. Is he going to put the same effort game in game out next year?

 

[Nineteen67]

So much money involved in these guaranteed contracts in such young age is a major issue IMO. You look at Marner, he has been playing hard in his contract year. Is he going to put the same effort game in game out next year?

He will because it’s how he plays. Although next year will be a tough one and they could very well miss the playoffs because of the roster situation. I still expect Marner to be the best player.

 

[RLF]

Something has change, especially this year.

There seems to be a disconnect between management and coaching which could be permeating the team. Since Dec this has been a mediocre team.

I think there is a disconnect between GM and Coach and then Coach and players.

Oddly, of the many that are now wanting the coaches head, were not complaining during our hot first couple of months. It was the coach who was complaining. He constantly said the way they were playing is fun for the fans and can work in October/November, but as things tighten up, it isn't going to work. The players weren't totally buying in.

So what has changed since the start of the season? Not much. And that is the problem. imo

This is what I see. We have a young team that constantly cheats on the offensive side of the puck. They can't wait to transition from D to O. They cheat on coverages trying to guess where the puck will go. They do not like to play defence. Defence is mostly hard work and physical. There is nothing fancy about it. That does not work with their creative minds, so they cheat and try to anticipate, looking for the quick transition while still moving using the creative side of their mind over the detail side. They had success with this at the start of the season. They scored at will. Their talent overpowered.

Fast forward. Coach is still preaching the same message. The game has tightened. The players have less space, less time and look lost on why what worked before is not working now. But they keep trying to do it anyway as it is what they relate to success and what is more fun and comfortable to play. We need our players to understand that you have to be willing to do things that are uncomfortable to have success. So far, they don't look willing to do that on a regular basis.

Now, I am not letting Babcock totally off the hook here. But the way I see these guys play at times, I am pretty positive that it is not the way the coach is asking them to play in all areas. He has not got them to buy in. Maybe it is their immaturity or maybe it is how he relays the message.

We got about 10 games left for everyone to be on the same page heading into the playoffs. I'm on the fence whether we can pull it together or not. I hope, but I am not overly confident at this point.

 

[ACC1224]

Brutal game at least Sparks provided a few laughs.